Id rather be hated rather than have to wait n see thousands get killed by some **** hijacking an airplane to attack.

 

Its not to be cute. Its meant to open discussion on another possible path, the one we are on isn't working and I believe it can't. Consider for a moment, why they poked us. In scenario 2 they have no reason to poke us.

 

Not only do I think it is possible I think it is probable. Right now we are playing into the "American big bully" story that they are selling. They see 1000s of women and children dying. Sure we can try to reason with them but that imagery throws out reason. Consider how we felt when the planes hit the towers. Reason be damned we wanted someone's head.

I'm just saying, maybe, JUST maybe, we need to step back and look at our ENTIRE foreign policy and the way we conduct ourselves globally.

No one loves this country more than I do. I tear up at a good National Anthem, a flag flies outside my house every day. I have a copy of the Declartion and the Constitution hanging on my wall. I LOVE the RED WHITE and BLUE.

However, I don't believe it is infallible. In fact the people leading this country have such a low approval rating at home, how in the world can we trust them to handle global relationships.

 

We are doomed!

We've become a nation of pacifists.

The rolls have been reversed. The criminal is now the victim. We're supposed to sympathize with them, not punish them.

We're supposed to take a hit and just brush it off. Even if it hurts. Alot.

We call securing our freedom and fostering opportunity for others, imposing our ways.

We say that since they've been fighting over there for years now, we shouldn't try to stop them. Even if they decide to bring their fight to us.

There was a time when the government encouraged people to take pride in our country and support our involvement in a war overseas. It worked.

Now people are being encouraged to belittle our country and it's elected government. It seems to be working.

I don't understand how people think it's ok to insult this country day after day when our soldiers are fighting and sacrificing for us. I don't understand how people don't seem to be aware of the fact that their actions prove to our enemies that what they are doing is working. We've made their cause easier to further. I don't understand why people think they posess the wisdom to know the answer to the situation in Iraq. I don't understand what would cause people to believe that surrender is a viable option in the war against terrorists.

It's a cliche, I guess. Maybe it was true at one time. United we stand. United we stand even if it's hard to do so. Even if we wish there were an easier, better way. Even if we don't agree with every move our representatives make on our behalf.

We have made very little, if any sacrifice during this war against terrorists. That is unless you're the one, or a family member of someone, fighting for our country. All we can do is complain that we have to pay too much for gas and that our leaders aren't smart enough to make decisions, that we don't know the first thing about.

The other half of the story.. Divided we fall. I guess that's what a "majority" want's, because being divided seems to be a popular trend. We will remain divided as long as you want to give up and I want to have pride and believe in the country I was born and have lived my life in. It's the people that want to give up that I believe are the ones that further the divide.

Your liberal bumper stickers tell me that you want to divide this country. That you want us to fall. That you want to give up. That's what your "democrat" bumper stickers say to me.

 

Wittom---did people ever think that, by invading a country, we may be playing into the hands of just what terrorists want?

Perhaps people now see some cracks in the argument put forth by those who lead us.

I thought people could disagree in this country and still be considered to be patriots. Think again about the argument between Patrick Henry and Thomas Jefferson. Founding fathers who DISAGREED. Disagreeing does not mean belittlement---it may mean a type of introspection that allows people to say, "Hey, wait a minute."

I have no problem securing our freedom, but since when do we have the right to impose our way of life on them? I would prefer to secure our freedom here---at our borders---and we expect a group of people who have never gotten along, have never understood nor wanted a democracy, to say "Wo, that is a good thing---why didn't we think of this before?"

WE are not insulting the country--we are doing what is our right to do---through the US Constitution---to disagree; that is a right---freedom of speech, etc. I believe the right of a citizen to disagree is actually part of the "checks and balances" that perhaps the founding fathers wanted us to have. WE are commenting not on the soldiers in the field, but the very government who sends them into battle. I believe there is a difference. People picket and protest in front of abortion clinics---for both sides of the argument. Ae they insulting the country? No, they are expressing themselves as is their Constituional right.

No, but if we are to wage war---if we are to put men and women into harm's way, it better be the right war; you cannot convince that what I wrote about above is not possibly true...perhaps by waging this war, we are actually lighting the powder keg of horrible things to come. Many over there hate us now---perhaps we are giving them even more propaganda to swell that hatred.

WE are allowed to disagree---that does not make us unpatriotic---it makes us all more involved in the thought processes that are ongoing in how our country is being run. Isn't that one of the complaints today---that people are to complacent as to how the country is being run---and that there is certainly too much apathy among the citizens? Disagreement does not mean being unpatriotic. Was Kennedy unpatriotic when he disagreed with General Curtis Le May about nuking Russia and Cuba? Was Lincoln unpatriotic when he urged a path of greater amnesty toward the Southerners than the Congress wished?

Are we not also simply expressing are ideas---regardless of how abhorrent some people may find them? That does not, Wittom, make us unpatriotic.

Sorry for the long response,

Tim C.

 

This has my vote. You see it everywhere in today's society. There can't be losers in school, don't want someone feeling like a loser, so neither do you have winners. Baloney, competion in the class room, on the field, whereever, makes most people want to try better. We are creating a nation of pacifists and this country is on the way to collapse. We will fold from within.

 

great post Wittom. So many people think that you can reason with the terrorists. It just won't work.

watch this presentation and then tell me we can negotiate.


http://www.terrorismawareness.org:80/know-about-jihad/

 

Oooops, double

 

referee54,

Why would terrorists want to fight by our rules? I'm not clear on how our taking the offensive could give terrorists the upper hand.

People have been debating the "cracks" in the argument for years now. That's ok, but it seems like people get so heated in the argument that they forget about the soldiers on the ground fighting for us. History will do a much better job of sorting the details. Untill then I think we should focus on the task at hand.

Disagreeing is fine with me. I disagree with people. What's happening right now isn't disagreement, it's making a mockery of our country. All you have to do is turn on the TV, or look at a "democrat" bumper sticker to see that it isn't a discussion we're having. It's belittling.

You say "imposing our way of life on them" and I say "fostering opportunity for others". There are many ways to look at a situation. I think my way looks far more positive. I'd rather be positive about what our soldiers are doing. I'd like to believe they are doing good, for them and for us.

Our country is being insulted daily. TV, radio, the internet. Kids are being taught that Bush isn't any smarter than a rock. Kids are being taught to believe that our country is nothing but a bully to the rest of the world. We used to be taught to be proud of this country. Then somehow one of our presidents taught us that oral sex isn't sex and isn't cheating. Now we are taught that our elected government doesn't have the intelect to function, and that we are superior thinkers. This happends day after day while there are soldiers being killed, and if they are staying alive, are enduring conditions that we would cry if we were in. They do their job, while we sit here at home and complain.

It's the wrong war? How on earth do you know that? How can people be so convinced that there is no positive outcome to our involvement in Iraq? Someone with a positive attitude that believes in this country might believe that though it will probably take time, like it has in other situations this country has been in in the past (WWII is one), there WILL be a positive outcome. These same people might also believe that quitting now will almost definitly have grave, negetive results. History does a better job of sorting out the details. I'll check back and if you're right, I'll concede. Untill then, I believe that people are making some very bold assertions these days, and it's dividing this country.

To be clear, I'm not calling you or anyone unpatriotic. Just stating that I think there are many in this country that have for some reason subscribed to pacifism.

 

I agree.

 

I know it's the wrong war because the last five years has been a one sentence 'plug-n-play'...

'...9/11...terrorists...Iraq....Osama...Iraq...War on Terror...Iraq...Al Queda...Iraq...'

Interchangable, any way you want, don't bother thinking it out, this administration would prefer you did not.

If you actually think about the Bill of Goods that have been sold and raise your hand to ask a question, you are labeled 'liberal' or 'pacificst' or 'unpatriotic'.

If you dare ask why in hell we are in Iraq (the wrong war) you do not support the troops.

Even after five years, FIVE YEARS, we can't ask why two Americans die each day and ten are crippled, and we have spent 87 billion each year?

When CAN we ask if enough is enough, without being reviled with such passion?

But I think I've asked this question of you before wit, I seem to recall it was unknown and undetermined length of time.
That's just not good enough.

 

Oh give it a damn rest. You are reading way to ****** much into this. Which part about the original post being lighthearted and in good fun do you not comprehend?! Gimme a break.

This nation has become 'comfortable'. We were that way for a long time before 9/11 and have become that way again. This was a strong country immediately after 9/11, where everyone was united together against a common enemy. But now this nation has grown soft again, and also divided by the "war" in Iraq.

My grandfather told me many times... the best thing that could've happened to this country, was if we were bombed (on US soil) during WWII. That's when we as a people started being comfortable, with our "you can't touch us" attitude. (*waits for chris1450 to challenge my grandfathers military service now)

You wanna know my true feelings? Pull ALL our troops back to the US. From EVERYWHERE! Defend this nation HERE first. Take care of our own people FIRST. F everyone else, let them kill each other off, and if they dare to come after us again, NUKE THEM! Bury their ****** jiihad loving ***** in the sand from which they came.

I'm so goddamn sick and tired of reading this BS all due to one lil post meant with humor and a grain of salt. I have my morals and ethics questioned by some 45yo who knows nothing about me who probably didn't serve his country... but he wants to basically call me out as a liar. I have others who just want to insult me cause I'm from CT. Others want to assume that I'm liberal... and democrat.

I enjoy a good debate. But when you start to question my morals, ethics and call me a liar, that's when I walk...

Read my sig... obviously I fall under the restrictions section huh. Maybe someone should report me as being unpatriotic to the powers that be because I tend to question what MY government is doing. What MY eleceted officials are doing with MY money. Rather than just roll over and accept what dish of BS I'm being fed today, i want some truth for once. You bunch of sheep. You say we're soft?! You're right, but it starts with you, cause you don't have the stomach or courage to stand up and ask WHY. Sorry if asking "why" makes me unpatriotic. At least I'm not a sheep. Or maybe I'm the black sheep.

 

You would probably have my vote.

I noticed everyone is complaining about everyone having so many "liberal" bumper stickers, but where i live (Minnesota, which is fairly liberal) there are WAY more "conservative" bumper stickers. Complete with stupid sayings and misguided ideals, as bumper stickers often are.

The only liberal bumper sticker i have seen in the last few months was a Paul Wellstone sticker.

 

Alright, high fives everyone.

There was a time when our side couldn't even move the ball.
The Conservatives had a ringer named burt who would score on every thread.

He's not around anymore, I think he went down with a knee injury.
Now they get in these third and longs and all we gotta do is sit back in a prevent.

Watch out for odin though. I think he's lost half a step but, he can still bust one down the sidelines.

 

I don't see any problem with asking questions. I'm tired of people throwing a wrench in the opperation and then saying they were just asking a question.

We need answers to the questions. We will get answers to the questions. We can't stop the train to get the answers. If we don't keep moving forward we wont get anywhere.

I believe there are more productive ways to question what is going on.