Strange statements riddled throughout this thread.

People being pro-war.
Bush being remembered as a good president.
People claiming to be conservatives but prefer war over diplomacy.
The economy is in great shape.

and with all due respect to the Lt Col, who cares if Iraqis are brave or its taking a little time to build a democracy over there. Oh and learning from history means looking a little further back than Vietnam.

A few comments:

No conservative should be pro-war. War is always, always always a last resort. The undeclared war in Iraq was never necessary IMO.

Bush has done a few good things, I'm becoming convinced they were his missteps, they just happen to be the right decision. The man is a disgrace to conservatives.

1. He misuses the military.
2. Cuts a tax, puts on the cloak of conservatism and then increases the size and scope of government.
3. He invades our privacy and claims it is necessary for security, and the Neo-cons eat it up.
4. He ignores diplomacy and history and invades the middle east.

Talking to your enemies is not a sign of weakness, rather true strength and leadership. Dehumanizing your enemies helps make a case for war. Humanizing them helps make a case for diplomacy. Iran, if handled correctly, could in fact topple their repressive regime with no force but who here thinks this administration is capable of that. The Bill Kristol's of the world are driving the party.

Who is the better person in the school yard? The guy who can beat you to a pulp and does so, or the guy who can do the same but prefers to talk first and fight last?

The economy great? Why is milk $3.50+ a gallon? Now I know this is a simplistic view but realistically the middle class, the people who make America great are being forced out by the rich and the poor. Paper money and the lack of sound money policies are building a ponzi scheme and our economy is more fragile now than it has ever been. I will say this is bigger than Bush.

We are a republic not an empire. Stop nation building with our young men and women. You want to protect this country? Protect our borders first. Spend our money there, not in Iraq.

*steps down off of the soap box and takes a seat*

I await the bashing from my "conservative" friends who probably believe I am a liberal in conservative's clothing.

 

He wasn't born in Texas. Wait! Thats not what I meant to say!

 

The boy lives more in the state of Confusion than the state of Texas.

 

Actually I believe he is a Northern VA transplant. Now why in the world you still choose to be a Deadskins fan when you could easily become a Cowboys fan I have no idea.

 

Vader, diplomacy has been tried in the Middle East for many years. Diplomacy only works when dealing with reasonable people. Zealots in any form are not reasonable. We could spend a lot of time and effort debating the finer points of "big stick" diplomacy, but even the big reasonable guy on the playground realizes that if the little guy keeps punching you, you better punch him back. Conservatives understand that we need to protect ourselves and our interests (sometimes our interests are hard to understand, like not being attacked by terrorists would be a good interest). Sometimes, that requires war - and I would rather have the fight in their neighborhood than ours.

WHen I was a kid, I was a lot bigger than my little brother. Everyday, he would use me as a punching bag and it got old... but being a good big brother I didn't hit him back. When he was 6 and I was 9, my Dad finally put in into perspective for me - you'll only have to hit him back a couple times and he will stop. Dad was right.

There are groups of people that only understand the big stick. I am very slow to anger, but I will draw the line in the sand - if you cross it, you get what you ask for. Remember the towers? Terrorists have kicked us and our allies all over the world for 50 years or more. In the last 6 years, how many successful attacks have happened? I could go on, but my point is made.

I am bailing on this thread - there are a lot of far flung opinions and I still want to be friends with everybody.

 

I can't see why people can't disagree and still be friends. I have no problems with anyone on either end of the spectrum.

Why do we have to get involved with their affairs at all. Pull out of the entire region. Let them kill each other and work it out themselves. Whomever wins, we buy the oil from. They need to sell it, we need to buy it. That should be the extent of our relationship with that region of the world.

Trade nothing more.


I also don't buy into the "The Iraq war is a good thing because we haven't been attacked in X number of years". The absence of something is not proof. Maybe the war has helped, maybe they are distracted, or maybe they've got us bogged down wasting our resources which was their goal and we are doing exactly what they want. Perhaps they have cells of people in this country already. The minute we start to pull out, they attack again. We go back in, accomplish nothing, waste resources and continue the cycle.

 

I think you guys wanting to use diplomacy and wanting to talk your way out are forgetting that these people think they are securing a place in heaven by killing us. We were not "at war" with them 9/11 nor the prior bombings. You can not use conventional wisdom with someone that does not think conventionally.

 

MCRD Parris Island, SC, 1st Battalion, Echo Co., Plt. 1150 (Pfc)
MCT Camp Lejuene, Fox Co.
Schools Bat., MOS 2141
3d AABN, Echo Co., Maint. Platoon (Lcpl)
3d AABN, Charlie Co., Maint. Platoon (Cpl)

YAT YAS

I don't need to prove anything to you, but I figured I'd throw some of that your way. I take great personal pride in the fact that I served my country (have you?), and chose to go a route many don't even consider. Don't insult me with your cynical one-sided views.

 

I misstated about the friends thing - there seem to be some people getting very out of joint. Personally, I have some friends that are very liberal - we agree to disagree and have great discussions. Without the voice inflections and body language it is much tougher to have a conversation, so I choose to bail out.

On the other point, that worked before airplanes and long-range weapons. Today, it just won't work the way we would all like it to (IMHO).

 

Wow. Guess thats why he is at 30% and Clinton was near 70% when he left office

 

You're assuming I'm a Dem. and a liberal at the same time.

NO. We lost 'Nam because we were trying to fight a conventional war against guerilla fighters... just like Iraq / Afghanistan. The US abides (most of the time) by the Geneva Convention... almost everyone we've been in a conflict with since the implementation of the GC has not, does not, and will not follow them cause they would lose in the blink of an eye.

This is for everyone (me included):



Seems as though some ppl take their party affiliations a little too seriously around here, and yet I'm the one being accused of "dishing it out, but not being able to take it". As said before, I was trying to inject a little humor (wish I hadn't now), but it seems as though some of you still live on the playground, where name calling is baaaad.

Sorry for the sh*tstorm.

 

Here is something to ponder.

They earn a place in heaven, based on my understanding, dying for Allah during a Jihad(sp?) They (muslims) have been there a lot longer than we have been here. They never bothered to screw with us for the first 200 years. Why? In my opinion they had better fish to fry. The extremists were killing the liberal muslims or the jewish people in the area.

Now here are two scenarios for you to consider:

1. We build our empire. We nation build. We continue to impose our views on a global landscape. Those who resent our views build us up as the great satan. To fund their radical views, the extremists point to our meddling as proof we are out to get them. They goad us into a fights we can't win. We burn valuable resources fighting these people. We die from the inside as our global support and respect widdles away to nothing. Our country collapses under the weight of the empire we attempt to maintain.

2. We build our nation. We mind our own business. We let others decide their own path. We become that far away nation that buys their oil. Why would they want to attack us? There are backsliding Muslims and Jews to get. Our respect around the world grows as we are a super power that uses our power to increase trade not to increase influence.

I know which option I prefer.

 

For what it's worth, I got a laugh out of some of them.

Some of them I didn't laugh.


(five of them, I already had on my truck)

 

Not sure what you are saying there

 

Gotcha and yes I prefer #2, yet #1 is how we run this country