I personally have made a real effort to not only become more informed about the current political climate but to utilize this vast resource called the internet to find as much information from many perspectives. Doing so has solidified my views further.

I'm not a republican. In fact I think I'm far from it. I'm not at all religious (I don't believe in heaven and hell and all that). I'm for keeping most abortion legal. I don't want to see the Constitution amended for tradiditional marriage but would like to have the discussion continue before making same sex marriage legal.

Maybe it has to do with what and where I am. I get the impression that many people commenting in the political discussions are wealthier and may live in better "situations" than I do. I think that's entirely fair. I just think that being blue collar and living "in the city" I might have a different perspective than people who would have to travel to see what's going on in the city. I live in a state with politicians that promise to fund all these social programs. I get to see a lot of what happens with these social programs. I see the poor people. I see people setteling for what they can get for free because it's easier than working for more. I see the corruption in this city from the people who are supposed to be spending these tax dollers for good. They get greedy.

I see people defending Kerry. He's one of the politicians from this state who gets tax dollars appropriated for programs that encourage people to be lazy and entice local politicians with greedy little hands. In the mean time people like me break our bodies to make a living and do so without complaining about it. I don't hold out much hope for this state but believe that if people are paying attention they will see the difference in representation in the rest of the country.

 

Hey! I paid my dues.
I lost an eye during the Free Government cheese riots back in the eighties.


It didn't change my views.
I'm still for free government cheese.
I just want police protection for everybody during the distribution process.

 

Man that was great.....nicely done...

 

Kerry is a tool, nothing more than a loud-mouth coward. That said, I don't believe for one minute that he got up in the moring and said "I'm going to insult the troops today." That's ludacris to say the least. As was pointed out by numerous news programs, that would be INTENTIONAL political suicide. As much as an as$ as he is, he isn't that dumb. It was a line in his speech (written by someone else) bashing GWB & he F'd it up. I think he made a simple, but very stupid, mistake & now he's going to pay the price. With one sentence (& his sub-sequent BS explanation) he pretty much ruined his political ambitions for AT LEAST a year or so. Screw him, he deserves it.

KC-10 FE out...

 

Well I am still convinced Kerry said exactly what he meant. Now he may not have necessarily meant to say it out loud or the way he did but the fact of the matter remains Kerry has for over 20 plus years despised the military.

He proved it once he got out and starting yapping about things he really had no idea about other then to make many friends and get into politics.

It’s a tough thing to believe in something, or feel for something as Kerry does, and then be careful to not let it out in the public. Kerry slipped up big time BUT he said what he truly means, or feels towards the military, and has felt for a very long time.

The fact of the matter is he slipped up by being honest and trying to make a stupid joke. What you heard Kerry state is what Kerry honestly thinks which people in the military are basically stupid idiots who were not smart enough to make it on their own WITH OUT government assistance to get into college.

Kerry is one of many liberals who looks down on just about everyone and if you don’t have a degree you really are not a “somebody”.

Do you really think Kerry and crowd like poor people, homeless people, minorities etc? If you do you have an education problem yourself because you’re not smart enough to see through these liberals and their propaganda. The military is not the only people Kerry and crowd thinks is a bunch of stupid morons…

Kerry has made statements such as:

Men in the military rape women.
Men in the military purposely and for fun torture innocent people.
Men in the military maim innocent people for kicks.
Men in the military kill innocent children.
People in the military terrorize people, or in other words, our current military is full of a bunch of terrorist.

So not only is our current military full of a bunch of stupid morons they are also terrorist more evil the OBL and his pals…

Knowing Kerry’s past and reading his MANY past negative statements for over 20 years on the military I find it extremely hard to believe that even if Kerry screwed up a joke that he didn’t mean every word he said about those in the military, it’s not me making this up and it’s not some evil Republican conspiracy but rather good ol’ John F’n Kerry’s OWN personal past, statements, and HONEST feelings towards people in the military…

Kerry is the terrorists best friend, spokesmen and leader…

 

You seem to be confusing net earnings with net savings.

I find it amusing that the people who are positing that a college degree has little value apparently can not draw the distinction between their fairly insignificant anecdotal experience and the much larger body of opposing evidence. (Perhaps some remedial education is in order.) Of course there will be some instances where someone without a degree makes more than someone with a degree. One could look at Bill Gates for example. However in the vast populous those who do not possess a degree, on average, make significantly less than those who do. There are many professions where a degree is required for you to even be considered for a job opening or for advancement within a company. To say that a college degree is meaningless, without any qualifying remarks, is simply ridiculous.

 

No confusion on this end as “net earnings” is the complete picture which includes net savings. Net earnings in a lifetime of employment and not net earnings on one paycheck.

For example someone with a degree may have a gross weekly salary of $1,500 against another’s person without a degree getting $1,350 but if the other one has been getting roughly $1,000 to $1,350 for 2 – 4 years they are well ahead of the person getting the $1,500 a week

Net earnings = all monies left after all obligations have been paid for. To make this very easy and fair comparison you can not include obligations such as house payments, car payments and loans OTHER then student loans.

Therefore the person without a degree does not have an obligation to pay back student loans while the one with the degree does. The studies I have read show that “generally”, when compared fairly, as I have outlined above, the person with a degree does not come out that much ahead of someone that does not have a degree.

The two basic reasons giving are that the one with out a degree already has a head start on their career path and “net earnings” path and also is not burden with overpriced college cost that basically buys you a pretty piece of paper with a special name on it like Harvard etc.

Granted when you start talking highly paid careers such as Aerospace etc. then you would be absolutely correct that someone is not just going to walk in without a degree much less get any face time with Human Resources. These highly skilled jobs requiring higher education are few and far apart.

We are talking your typical 2 and 4 year degrees, business degrees, mechanical engineering etc. The vast majority of degrees out there today don’t hold much weight, its paper and someone has spent big money to help get their foot in the door. Today a degree is what a high school diploma was about 15 years ago or so.

When you start talking 8, 10 or 12 years of schooling we are talking a different ball game and I am simple referring to your 2 or 4 year degree that cost you thousands of dollars and, “generally” gets you about the same amount of money as someone who never went to college when you look at “net earnings” in an average lifetime…

For the record my past experiences and military schooling I had equal about 4 years worth of college…

Trust me when I say many, not all, but many job postings stating “degree required” is just for show because many of those job posting will accept and entertain someone without a degree if they have the experience and background to meet the “degree” requirements.

The job I started in required a degree and every job I moved up into required a degree and I was never held back but rather promoted up the chain.

Don’t misunderstand me because I do think degrees are a great thing but they are definitely not the end all and they definitely do not help people advance and get higher paying jobs like they did 15 years ago or so. Today they give you a little bump ahead but when put up against a person with actual experience and background it’s a toss up 15 years or so ago it wasn’t…

 

this thread is funny

 

01 XLT Sport-- I would have to respectfully disagree, to a point. I do understand your argument that people going right into the work place can and do make a lot of money. Most people who have saved a million have done it this way, but they typically also have opened a business. I think if you look at the later promotions in a person work life many times those with out a degree hit the glass ceiling. My wife did. She currently makes about 15,000 more than I do. I have a 2 and 4 year degree. I also earned those degrees in an area that really doesn't require a degree. Many jobs only require the degree because the boss wants you to have one. These jobs are the ones you referred to that if you have the experience the degree really doesn't matter. If you take the professions that require a degree because you must have a knowledge base before you can start the job, like a doctor or lawyer, etc., then your argument falls short.

 

Darned computer

 

Absolutely, and I completely agree with you on that point. I mentioned that in my post about professions or highly paid jobs like Aerospace. I just didn’t mention doctors, lawyers, etc.

I should have reiterated that there are many degrees out there, that while they could help out or get your foot in the door, they are not the end all or highly valued “document” that guarantees you higher pay over someone without that degree.

However there are professions that one “must” have a degree and higher education to get into a position such as a doctor and they will make very good money over and above their financial obligations of that higher schooling.

I just don’t like younger people being mislead into a false pretense that if they go to college they will make big money over others who don’t or that they have a much better chance of getting a job over someone that has not gone to college.

This is why college has become so expensive, too many parents out there misled about the “real” value of college. People, or parents, are paying much more money for college today while their children receive much less opportunities for that education, generally speaking of course leaving out such education as required for doctors etc.

So, college will absolutely not hurt someone, but it does not necessarily mean more money or opportunities. It’s an edge, but it’s a very slim edge today as compared to 10 – 15 years ago when it was a huge edge…

 

Someone mentioned that one of the benefits of college is it teaches one to have command of the English language, to include writing and speaking. I agree with that however…

Isn’t that what public schools are for? It’s truly sad that someone MUST go to college to have a command of the English language and pay through the nose for it after we have already dumped millions of dollars into **** poor public education…

 

Not to mention all the college graduates that still can't spell worth a damn. There's not enough information on a diploma anyway. I want to see the grade point average of the recipient for one thing. I don't know if the doctor or lawyer I'm using scored at the bottom of his class, or at the top. I don't want "Billy Bob Sqeezed Through By The Skin Of Their Teeth" doing any surgical procedure on me or defending me in court.

 

My diploma not only states my degree it also says I graduated with the highest temperature in my class.

 

I'm willing to bet it wasn't taken orally either. I've heard that Goat Herder University is notorious for it's hazing.