Quite a few studies have shown the majority of "crime" associated with marijuana use is in fact created by prohibition itself. There is also a direct correlation between marijuana prohibition efforts and the involvement of organized crime in it's distribution. The bottom line is, prohibition of virtually any substance is a virtual guarantee of a new lucrative market for organized crime and law enforcement has shown that it can barely keep organized crime from exlopding exponentially because there will always be a market for the things we try to tell people they can't have and there will always be a criminal element ready to provide it.

Take away the necessity for people to turn to the black market for what they're looking for and you eliminate the black market and the crime associated with it. There are some laws one would be hard pressed to even justify based on the facts, but there will always be those in society who feel they have the right to dictate others behavior simply because they don't like it, and those laws are doing far more harm than good.

 

Well said. Very few families have not been affected in some way by meth. It's tragic and it's getting worse. Current treatment programs are not very effective.

 

So basically you admit that at least in your experience, marijuana abusers (as opposed to users) don't pose the threat that abusers of other drugs pose? I'm just wanting to clarify your position on that because I can show you figures that show how much money and other resources are being spent on marijuana prohibition that could be used against those other drugs. Since you don't advocate marijauna legalization, are you aware of the actual dollar amount this country spends on it's prohibition as a result? Are you interested in knowing?

But there is a difference between someone who uses marijauna recreationally and an abuser, just like someone who has a beer or two on occasion isn't an alcoholic.

I do think there are some drugs that are inherently dangerous to the point that casual use isn't even possible without some significant level of harm, meth and heroin are almost instantly physically addicitve, alcohol can be physically addictive, withdrawal from all three can kill you if not carefully monitored, marijuana abusers are pyschologically dependent, not physically addicted. Any mental health professional can confirm in the case of psychological dependence, it's not the crutch that causes it, the crutch is a symptom of the underlying syndrome.

 

I agree, but one doesn't have to legalize meth to change the focus of our laws concerning it. But the reality is, marijuana abuse in this country is relatively insignificant compared to those other problems and it's prohibition is taking away scarce resources that are needed for those other problems.

 

Hey kretinus you've got mail

 

You can bet the second it was legalized, then I would be investing in the industry.

 

I can't see meth and crack being legalized. Pot on the other hand...

I think if people waited till they were at least 21 to try alcohol and pot if it were legal, there would be fewer people doing them. I also think that fewer poeple would become "addicted". That 35yo guy in his parents basement is going to be there for some reason or another. Even if he waited till he was 21 to try "legal drugs" he would probably still be a loser. He11, I'll bet there are a few who stay home to "take care of mom and/or dad" who haven't ever touched drugs. They might drive a fast, fancy truck, and have the 60"plasma and X-Box.

It's not the job of law enforcement to try to convince young people to wait to make the decision to do drugs, legal or otherwise. It's parents, family, friends and the community that should be doing that job. I'm no angel, but I strongly encourage the young people I know to wait till they are older to make a potentially damaging decision.

I didn't wait till I was 21. No, I experimented much earlier. There is no question that it delayed my progress but fortunately I figured out that if I didn't check myself I'd end up sh*t's creek without a paddle. Luckily I've managed to make something of myself. Could I have done better? Yep. I'm still doing ok though. I left my parents house when I was 16 and vowed to never live under their roof again. I'd be homeless before being a 34yo living with mom or dad. I pay the mortgage on the roof over my head. I'm no angel, and I'm no dummy either.

 

Speaking from the experiences of my state, meth is a growing problem in many respects, but how it's dealt with is part of the problem. A U of I professor studied data over 10 years that showed the following:

When arrest and prosecution efforts for marijuana possession are increased, the use of harder drugs increased, the distribution and availability of harder drugs increased as did the level of violence involved in distribution. The availability of marijuana decreased, useage remained more or less the same in juveniles and adults.

When education and treatment is the focus, use of harder drugs decreased, distribution and availability of harder drugs decreased, violence decreased etc. Marijuana availability increased, but juvenile use decreased, adult use remained more or the less the same. I believe you can contact IPTV for a tape of the professors lecture, it was quite enlightening.

The point being, marijuana prohibition policies have an impact on the problems of harder drugs, and it isn't a positive one. In reality it increases the problems of truly dangerous drugs and takes away resources to fight them, while having very little impact at all on the use of marijuana. You're in law enforcement, would you rather spend your time going after a stoner or a crank head?

Ultimately as your budgets get squeezed even more, that's going to be the choice you'll be making. And when we hit that wall, chances are the problem of meth, heroin, ecstasy, crack etc use is going to be completely out of control because we put off making tough, logical, rational choices until we had no real choice.

How many problems in this country are a problem simply because at some point when it still might have been kept in check, we allowed it to become too politicized to hold to common sense and reason.

BTW, the manner in which you are discussing this issue is refreshing, and I am considering your perspectives, obviously it is impossible that our personal experiences not influence our views and judgements, so I accept that this is probably an agree to disagree discussion, but the issue does need to be discussed, people need to look at the facts for themselves and decide for themselves.

 

Actually most advocate regulated legalization, pretty much in line with alcohol regulation which would most likely allow for limited personal use cultivation as well as regulated commercial production, much in the same manner that you can make beer and wine in your home. So you might not be too successful in screwing anyone but the government by cheating on your taxes

I wouldn't advocate that, the government likes it's taxes ya know and they aren't very friendly if they think you're not being nice and paying yours.

 

Time for a different perspective here, folks. Do y’all think that during 5 years of investigating that the government didn’t have enough evidence within the first year to bust him then? Absolutely!

But hey! Think about it… The good ol’ boys in charge of the government as well as the “war on drugs” ain’t stupid. That was all free money folks! The government’s “investigation” was only a “front” to gather more convicting evidence, yet that was only the minor reason for delaying so long. Why bust someone at a year into production, with an elaborate production, who knows what he is doing? Why not wait another 4 years and bust him then when his assets are worth millions more? The government didn’t even need to work for it, just keep an eye on the poor schmuck and his bank accounts. Make him do all the work. Then, when they decided it should be plenty money, or maybe too much time has elapsed for a “pot-bust”, wham! They hit him. Bring him down. Seize his assets and take the booty! The guy goes to jail for breaking the laws that the government has in place, the government walks away with the schmuck’s lively-hood and share the well amongst themselves as the government sees fit.

Different perspective? Something to think about if you ever want to get into the drug trade. They just don’t bust you right off the bat, they drag it out so the conviction sticks and take all the money you sweated bullets about for breaking the law. They will eventually take you down, no matter how good you think your operation is.

Why give the government all your work when they just let you do it?

Just a different perspective is all.

And no… I don’t do drugs. In my line of work, I know what drugs eventually do to people and there is no way I could get caught doing that and lose my job. All I’m saying here is the government essentially let this operation go on and on and on. For what reason? MO MONEY for them! They know what they are doing and why change when it is the easiest money they can obtain? Period.

 

Just out of curiosity, whom did they hurt?

Which terrorist were they supporting by growing this weed?

 

Not at all. In fact, I'm for it...

However, the question is... Is it right for the government to let an illegal drug operation go on and on for years, just to make more of that money? Are they actually letting the drug problem increase because of greed?

Think about it.

 

Very interesting perspective FyrCom. Not sure I totally agree with it but I never looked at it like that before either. Like you said just another perspective.

 

I dont think that is what he is saying, I think he means that they could have shut it down, put him away and stopped the production before it ever got as large as it did. If they would have went ahead and done it in the first year then they would not of had the land and house in florida, the yacht, and various other property that he obtained during his successful carrer as a grower over the last 5 years while he was under investigation.

Basically asking, What new evedince did they really obtain in the last 4 years? Or was it just "Yep, we have a white Chevrolet leaving now." Buying time so he could aquire more property for them to sieze.

I personally had never thought about it like that either. Interesting....

 

would someone just twist one up and lets sit near the campfire and sing
kum by ya!!!

I have seen some friends die from being alcoholics, no liver left, no body weight (except enlarged liver) no friends, no family, no house, no nothing... then no more time. How in the world can pot be any worse???.