Top 3 QBs of All time
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Originally Posted by kobiashi
Wondering why, after three pages, no one has mentioned Terry Bradshaw . . .
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Roman Gabriel
Daryl Laminica
and finally . . . sure, he was a kicker, but with the worst throw ever in the history of the Super Bowl . . .. and maybe all of football, I feel this qualifies him . . .
Garo Yepremian
Daryl Laminica
and finally . . . sure, he was a kicker, but with the worst throw ever in the history of the Super Bowl . . .. and maybe all of football, I feel this qualifies him . . .
Garo Yepremian
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IMO, Bradshaw is another great player that, like Aikman & Kelly, is certainly worthy of top 10 consideration. Not top 3 material, though.
Here are a few others: Dan Fouts, George Blanda, Ken Stabler, Steve McNair, Len Dawson, Warren Moon. You could even argue for Bob Griese & Kurt Warner.
All excellent QB's when at the top of their game. Top 3? No way.
Here are a few others: Dan Fouts, George Blanda, Ken Stabler, Steve McNair, Len Dawson, Warren Moon. You could even argue for Bob Griese & Kurt Warner.
All excellent QB's when at the top of their game. Top 3? No way.
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http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/AikmTr00.htm
Aikman's stats. For his career, he is not in the top 10 for any QB stat (OK, Superbowl wins are not included in the stat line).
1992 was his best year. That year, his stats were approximately 4th best of the league's QBs (behind Young, Marino & Randall Cunningham).
Troy was a great player, but I'm having a little trouble understanding how a guy who was statistically no better than the 4th best QB in the league when he played is somehow considered in the top 3 all time?
Aikman's stats. For his career, he is not in the top 10 for any QB stat (OK, Superbowl wins are not included in the stat line).
1992 was his best year. That year, his stats were approximately 4th best of the league's QBs (behind Young, Marino & Randall Cunningham).
Troy was a great player, but I'm having a little trouble understanding how a guy who was statistically no better than the 4th best QB in the league when he played is somehow considered in the top 3 all time?
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Terry was a great QB, no denying that- Certainly in the top-10 in my book.
ANd, while it may be true that Aikman may not have the best stats, there's a lot that goes into piling up stats. (Good line, great receivers, running backs with great hands (Moose), vision, physical toughness and team leadership). If you have all those things it's easy to pile up good stats. Troy had most of this in his early years, but year after year the line weakened; After Michael Irvin got into trouble as often as he did, it seems that all of a sudden Troy "couldn't find him" on the field anymore. The loss of the other receiver they had in the mid-90's reduced Dallas' down-field threat, and allowed Mike to be effectively double-teamed. Moose got hurt, and Troy was tender-headed.
If Troy hadn't gotten blasted by so many dizzying hits that resulted in concussions, and had Dallas been able to retain a half-@$$ receiver to keep the defense honest; his stats would have been better. But, I still say Troy was one of the best. I'd rank him above Don Meridith and Danny White as Cowboy's great QB's and that's for sure. BUt, if I were picking the all-time greatest Cowboy's for a starting line-up, I'd take Staubach over Troy.
Dallas' problem for the last 8or 9 years has been a severely weakened offensive line. The last sebastian of greatness on that line is Larry Allen, but even Big Larry can't block 4, 5 or 6 men by himself.
Troy was a great leader, who in my opinion was hobbled a bit near the end of his career by poorly timed comments, and from what I believe was lettign what was happening off the field, make it into the locker room and onto the football field between Troy & Michael Irvin.
ANd, while it may be true that Aikman may not have the best stats, there's a lot that goes into piling up stats. (Good line, great receivers, running backs with great hands (Moose), vision, physical toughness and team leadership). If you have all those things it's easy to pile up good stats. Troy had most of this in his early years, but year after year the line weakened; After Michael Irvin got into trouble as often as he did, it seems that all of a sudden Troy "couldn't find him" on the field anymore. The loss of the other receiver they had in the mid-90's reduced Dallas' down-field threat, and allowed Mike to be effectively double-teamed. Moose got hurt, and Troy was tender-headed.
If Troy hadn't gotten blasted by so many dizzying hits that resulted in concussions, and had Dallas been able to retain a half-@$$ receiver to keep the defense honest; his stats would have been better. But, I still say Troy was one of the best. I'd rank him above Don Meridith and Danny White as Cowboy's great QB's and that's for sure. BUt, if I were picking the all-time greatest Cowboy's for a starting line-up, I'd take Staubach over Troy.
Dallas' problem for the last 8or 9 years has been a severely weakened offensive line. The last sebastian of greatness on that line is Larry Allen, but even Big Larry can't block 4, 5 or 6 men by himself.
Troy was a great leader, who in my opinion was hobbled a bit near the end of his career by poorly timed comments, and from what I believe was lettign what was happening off the field, make it into the locker room and onto the football field between Troy & Michael Irvin.
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Originally Posted by cia-agent
Terry was a great QB, no denying that- Certainly in the top-10 in my book.
ANd, while it may be true that Aikman may not have the best stats, there's a lot that goes into piling up stats. (Good line, great receivers, running backs with great hands (Moose), vision, physical toughness and team leadership). If you have all those things it's easy to pile up good stats. Troy had most of this in his early years, but year after year the line weakened; After Michael Irvin got into trouble as often as he did, it seems that all of a sudden Troy "couldn't find him" on the field anymore. The loss of the other receiver they had in the mid-90's reduced Dallas' down-field threat, and allowed Mike to be effectively double-teamed. Moose got hurt, and Troy was tender-headed.
If Troy hadn't gotten blasted by so many dizzying hits that resulted in concussions, and had Dallas been able to retain a half-@$$ receiver to keep the defense honest; his stats would have been better. But, I still say Troy was one of the best. I'd rank him above Don Meridith and Danny White as Cowboy's great QB's and that's for sure. BUt, if I were picking the all-time greatest Cowboy's for a starting line-up, I'd take Staubach over Troy.
Dallas' problem for the last 8or 9 years has been a severely weakened offensive line. The last sebastian of greatness on that line is Larry Allen, but even Big Larry can't block 4, 5 or 6 men by himself.
Troy was a great leader, who in my opinion was hobbled a bit near the end of his career by poorly timed comments, and from what I believe was lettign what was happening off the field, make it into the locker room and onto the football field between Troy & Michael Irvin.
ANd, while it may be true that Aikman may not have the best stats, there's a lot that goes into piling up stats. (Good line, great receivers, running backs with great hands (Moose), vision, physical toughness and team leadership). If you have all those things it's easy to pile up good stats. Troy had most of this in his early years, but year after year the line weakened; After Michael Irvin got into trouble as often as he did, it seems that all of a sudden Troy "couldn't find him" on the field anymore. The loss of the other receiver they had in the mid-90's reduced Dallas' down-field threat, and allowed Mike to be effectively double-teamed. Moose got hurt, and Troy was tender-headed.
If Troy hadn't gotten blasted by so many dizzying hits that resulted in concussions, and had Dallas been able to retain a half-@$$ receiver to keep the defense honest; his stats would have been better. But, I still say Troy was one of the best. I'd rank him above Don Meridith and Danny White as Cowboy's great QB's and that's for sure. BUt, if I were picking the all-time greatest Cowboy's for a starting line-up, I'd take Staubach over Troy.
Dallas' problem for the last 8or 9 years has been a severely weakened offensive line. The last sebastian of greatness on that line is Larry Allen, but even Big Larry can't block 4, 5 or 6 men by himself.
Troy was a great leader, who in my opinion was hobbled a bit near the end of his career by poorly timed comments, and from what I believe was lettign what was happening off the field, make it into the locker room and onto the football field between Troy & Michael Irvin.
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In terms of stats, guys like Dave Kreig, Boomer Esiason, John Brodie and Ken Anderson own Troy's ***.
No way you can convince me any of those guys are in the top 3 all time, and all of them had vastly inferior supporting casts to Aikman's Cowboys.
And where's the Cowboy love for Craig Morton and Vinny Testatverde? They played for other teams, too, but their careers are comparable or better than Troy Aikman's in many ways.
Top 50? Sure, you bet. Top 3? Nope - not even close.
No way you can convince me any of those guys are in the top 3 all time, and all of them had vastly inferior supporting casts to Aikman's Cowboys.
And where's the Cowboy love for Craig Morton and Vinny Testatverde? They played for other teams, too, but their careers are comparable or better than Troy Aikman's in many ways.
Top 50? Sure, you bet. Top 3? Nope - not even close.
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Originally Posted by dirt bike dave
In terms of stats, guys like Dave Kreig, Boomer Esiason, John Brodie and Ken Anderson own Troy's ***.
No way you can convince me any of those guys are in the top 3 all time, and all of them had vastly inferior supporting casts to Aikman's Cowboys.
And where's the Cowboy love for Craig Morton and Vinny Testatverde? They played for other teams, too, but their careers are comparable or better than Troy Aikman's in many ways.
Top 50? Sure, you bet. Top 3? Nope - not even close.
No way you can convince me any of those guys are in the top 3 all time, and all of them had vastly inferior supporting casts to Aikman's Cowboys.
And where's the Cowboy love for Craig Morton and Vinny Testatverde? They played for other teams, too, but their careers are comparable or better than Troy Aikman's in many ways.
Top 50? Sure, you bet. Top 3? Nope - not even close.
Boomer Esiason? You're kidding, right?
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[Boomer Esiason? You're kidding, right?[/QUOTE]
Career Completions: Boomer is #11 all time, Troy is #12.
Yards: Boomer is #12 all time, Troy is #20
TD Passes: Boomer is #12 all time, Troy is #46.
I guess if you don't factor in TD passes, Troy is not too far behind Boomer
And he had about 600 more yards rushing than Troy, too.
Boomer spent 9.5 seaons on the Bengals, 3 with the Jets and one year with the Cardinals. Not the best supporting casts compared to the early '90's Cowboys. I think there is a very strong argument that Boomer was better than Troy.
Career Completions: Boomer is #11 all time, Troy is #12.
Yards: Boomer is #12 all time, Troy is #20
TD Passes: Boomer is #12 all time, Troy is #46.
I guess if you don't factor in TD passes, Troy is not too far behind Boomer
And he had about 600 more yards rushing than Troy, too.
Boomer spent 9.5 seaons on the Bengals, 3 with the Jets and one year with the Cardinals. Not the best supporting casts compared to the early '90's Cowboys. I think there is a very strong argument that Boomer was better than Troy.
Last edited by dirt bike dave; Aug 12, 2005 at 02:22 PM.
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Originally Posted by dirt bike dave
[Boomer Esiason? You're kidding, right?
Yards: Boomer is #12 all time, Troy is #20
TD Passes: Boomer is #12 all time, Troy is #46.
I guess if you don't factor in TD passes, Troy is not too far behind Boomer
[/QUOTE]There is a lot more than passing to being a successful quarterback. You have to look at team leadership and the ability to lead a team to victory.
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I agree, there are intangibles outside the stats, and Troy fares pretty well at the 'intangibles'.
Here are a few guys that had the skills + intangibles to take their team to the Super Bowl:
Joe Kapp, Bill Kilmer, Vince Ferragamo, Jim Plunkett, Ron Jaworski, David Woodley, Tony Eason, Jim McMahon, Phil Simms, Doug Williams, Jeff Hosteteler, Mark Rypien, Stan Humphries, Neil O'Donnel, Trent Dilfer, Kerry Collins.
There are some great leaders and fine, top 50 QBs in that list, but no-one that can even sniff the top 3. IMO, Troy has more in common with Plunkett than he does with Elway, Montana, Farve, etc...
Not trying to insult Troy or his fans. Just calling it as I see it - Great player but not top 3.
Here are a few guys that had the skills + intangibles to take their team to the Super Bowl:
Joe Kapp, Bill Kilmer, Vince Ferragamo, Jim Plunkett, Ron Jaworski, David Woodley, Tony Eason, Jim McMahon, Phil Simms, Doug Williams, Jeff Hosteteler, Mark Rypien, Stan Humphries, Neil O'Donnel, Trent Dilfer, Kerry Collins.
There are some great leaders and fine, top 50 QBs in that list, but no-one that can even sniff the top 3. IMO, Troy has more in common with Plunkett than he does with Elway, Montana, Farve, etc...
Not trying to insult Troy or his fans. Just calling it as I see it - Great player but not top 3.