Alright, so here we go. First off, good to get back on the forum, it's been a while. I've been creeping but haven't taken the time to do much posting in the last couple years because I can usually find answers to my questions by searching.

I've done a few searches and browsed the first 2 pages for each symptom my truck is having but it appears I've got a different problem. Hopefully someone with more knowledge than me can help me out with some suggestions for when I go into the dealer after work.

Background:
The truck started having issues starting, guages would sweep relays would click but no cranking. This was right after Thanksgiving, so from what I read I went to the auto parts store, had the battery checked and purchased a new one after it failed. Truck worked fine for about a week, then same symptoms showed up. I removed the Edge Evo and have kept it removed since just in case that was source of the problem and didn't want it locked in if PCM lost file or was reflashed by dealer. I need to have a reliable vehicle (never had an issue with any of my F150s before) to get to work, so I bit the bullet and took it to the Ford dealer here in Farmington right before we left for my parents on Christmas. They had the truck for about 2 weeks, tested the new battery which was fine. They cleaned terminals and gave back saying all draw tests checked out. They dropped it off at my house for free because they had called to tell me truck had been stolen (turns out bullpen was full and nightshift tech parked in main lot). When we get home I'm excited to have a fully functional truck again. Hop in sweeping, relays clicking and no crank. Dealer tows back for free.

This time around they are able to reproduce the problem since I didn't touch it before they towed it. They tell me it is the battery saver relay and door ajar switch. (I will post up comments from invoices in next post after I go out to truck). I say fine, fix it and get it back to me. $182 later I have the truck and it works fine with the exception of drivers door actuator not going all the way down when I try to lock it with vehicle NOT running. Locks work fine with vehicle running.

We go on a 10 day vacation that we've been saving up 2 years for and when I return home I put a PA 3" body lift on the truck. I was doing this after work and then on the weekend, so battery was disconnected for about 8 days. Truck works fine for about a week. Get in the truck last Monday, sweep, click, no crank. Bring back to dealer, they have it for another week. Tell me my 5 month old battery is now shot, they replace at no charge even though it's not a Ford Battery. This time they tell me it is Accessory delay relay, replaced at no charge and I picked up the truck last night. Get in this morning, turn key on, no sweep, truck barely cranks over with a brand new battery and 50 degree outside temp, guages immediately sweep.

Any help would be appreciated, so far I'm not that mad at the dealer since they have only charged me the original $182 but both myself and the dealer are now quite frustrated, will be bringing it back today at 5 after work.

 

Here are the notes that the Tech wrote on each service invoice. My headlamp switch had come off, but a broken plastic tab on the **** was irrelevant to the problem in my eyes.
1/15/13:
Customer states no start, battery loses charge. Advise
Charging system & battery test, passed. Draw test, .04mA, pass. Replaced headlamp switch ****, draw test, .03mA, passed. Remove & Inspect (R&I) junction box, separate GEM module, inspect for water damage, none found. Checked all lights, high mount stop lamp out, replaced bulb. 2 draw tests, .03mA, passed. R&I headlamps and bulbs, inspected, no problems found. R&I headlamp switch, inspected, nor problems found. Draw test, .03mA.
Let vehicle rest 3 days, test drove, door ajar and dome lamp stay on. IDS, switch does not change status. Draw test, .06mA, failed. Battery saver relay status unchanged. Replaced door ajar switch & battery saver relay. dom lamp inop, replaced bulb. draw test, .03mA

3/29/13:
Customer states DS door lock inop, works when engine running. Guages sweep when key turned on. Advise
Electrical diagnosis, replaced sticking accessory delay relay.

 

Drivers door? I'd start looking for chaffed or broken wires in the door harness especially where it goes through the kick panel junction

.03mA is really really low for a draw, most newer vehicles are acceptable if its <.30mA

 

Thanks for the reply Patman, I'll do a quick check myself before dropping it off and let them know. As far as the amp draw that is just what they wrote in the notes, home isn't on the way to the dealer, but when I get the truck back I will check with my ammeter and see if the tech just added a 0 in all of his numbers. Double checked and he has .03,.04 and .06 mA. I will ask on that too.

Still wierd that the actuator is fully functional when running and has the issue when truck is off if it is some sort of frayed wire.

 

like I said I'd look in the door harness, where it bends in and out.

Try also testing for symptoms with the door in different positions as well as running or not running, may help to pinpoint the problem

 

As of Friday, they are still trying to figure out the door actuator issue, but I think they are making progress on the issue that is draining the battery. I left the key fob with them this time because I only use that to lock or unlock the doors. A very strange issue has appeared. When using the key fob it energizes the trailer light relay, so that seems like that is what is draining the battery. They are still working on it, but hopefully the guy on day shift today can figure it out so I can actually have my truck back. I can't wait to put this behind me and finally get to order my new tires after putting on the body lift.

 

So after them having it for going on 2 weeks now, they have allegedly determined the problem. Looks like the central security module (CSM) crapped the bed. Really disappointing to have to sink $600 into the truck when I had just saved up enough for new rims/tires. I'm sure they are probably trying to get a little money back on the labor but like I said they've been pretty good to me so far so I'm just going to pull the trigger and have them replace it so I don't have to monkey with programming and such and then I'll know it should all be done right in case I have any more issues.

Total Cost for this shop trip
$150 diag. (not bad since the tech has been working on it for at least an hour every day, I'm figuring minimum of 8 hours)
$240 new CSM
$300 intall labor and taxes

 

Well, picked it up last night and things seem ok, started up this morning, I'm not going to say it's fixed until it works for over a week. Door actuator still isn't working correctly so I'll read through one of the many threads on that issue and test if that is shot. Thanks for the help guys

 

Hopped in the truck Sunday morning to head to Home Depot, guages swept and relays were clicking. Took it back to the Ford garage and had a talk with the service manager, he agreed that with over $850 spent and approximately 6 weeks of them having it since Thanksgiving the truck should not still have a problem. Basically told me I will have that $850 as a credit with the shop and that he is going to give it to his best mechanic (shop foreman). Not sure why the foreman wasn't brought in 2 weeks ago, but whatever, I just want my truck back.

I wonder if these electrical gremlins are living off the cheerios my 1 year old son throws on the floor in back.

 

Well, after this last time the dealer had it for a week, they said they couldn't reproduce the problem so they gave it back. I've had it for a week now and the truck has started everytime. They said all they did was start it and drive it around everyday, no fixes.

I find it hard to believe that the truck just healed itself, so after work today I'm going to check under the hood for any new wires/fuses/relays that weren't mentioned on the previous invoices. But for now I am happy to have a reliable truck again, although I still cross my fingers everytime I turn the key. Thanks for the suggestions and help,

Brandon

 

If it appears again, I would diagnose myself. Your max key off load should be less than 30mA or 0.03A. You'll need a DVM, put in series with battery negative post and battery negative cable. Most DVM's have a 10A fuse inside so note that when doors are opened, lights come on and communication bus/modules wake up and will likely draw more than 10A blowing your fuse. Trick is to either use a knife switch or carefully put the DVM in series while truck is asleep. Takes 15 - 20 min for it to fall asleep.

Monitor key off load and start pulling fuses in the BCM in the passenger kick-panel. When it drops to acceptable level, then you know what circuit is causing the problem.

If at the beginning your key off load is good, then use key fob to lock doors, etc. to try and get in the state causing problems. Note, you can leave your door open while doing this, it is part of the delayed accessory relay and is dis-connected when truck falls asleep. Just don't close it during the process.

 

Make that 30-40 minutes for the battery saver circuit to time out.

 

Battery Saver is only active if the key is in accessory mode or if you don't open your door after the key is in off position or removed. Once you open the door (with key out), battery saver is no longer in control. Shut the door, then the system begins shutting down which usually occurs at the 15min mark. This can be verified with radio on, turn truck off, remove key and open door - radio goes off.

 

Had a family emergency Friday and had to pick up wife and little one and leave truck in the hospital parking lot overnight. Went back Saturday morning to pick it up and truck battery was too weak to start. Wife who was already in a bad mood from Friday calls dealer and demands to talk to owner (she's not as nice as I am) so they towed it on Fords dime since they claim they can't troubleshoot the problem unless it's acting up. Weird thing about this time was that DS door lock did not work at all (fob or cab switch) unless I used key in the door, passenger side worked fine. I told the techs to focus on that circuit since I have brought it up multiple times and they have not ever mentioned it upon giving it back.

We'll see what happens, the owner seems to be on my side that it's ridiculous that Ford mechanics can't fix a Ford truck, but we'll know more after I go talk to him after work.

Thanks for the sugestions, I will try troubleshooting myself it they can't find the issue this time.

 

I don't really mind trouble shooting electrical problems but they can be crazy makers. Many a manufacture "buy back" has been electrical problems that the dealer has NOT been able to fix. They can be worse than any ghost you've ever chased. I understand the frustration but put yourself in the mechanics shoes and don't be TOO hard on 'em. This essentially is a depressing no win for him and the dealer. There is no electrical problem that CAN NOT be solved, but the price sometimes is a huge investment in time and since there is NO FREE LUNCH either the dealer, the mechanic (they are often on straight commision, NO salary) or the customer. The manufacturers wouldn't be buying 'em back if the hard ones were EASY!