I understand that, and I have been very respectful every time I've talked with anyone. I know they are frustrated just as much as I am. I'm also trying to be as helpful as possible and calling with the suggestions from this post as well as logging every accessory I use each time I run the truck. It's not for a lack of trying on anyone's part, just maddening that it hasn't been resolved yet.

 

there are also relays for the door locks to handle the higher amp draw of the lock actuator that could be sticking and energizing the coil instead of a "one shot " then release.
a possible reason for working while eng is running is the alt. puts out a higher voltage/ about 14 volts, when off you only have 11.5 - 12.5 from the battery. ya- it makes a difference. if relay contacts are bad they may have been welding together and draining batt. but now they are gone and not working at all.

I just spent the day tracing electrical problems in a stretch limo, had 12 volt with a/c blowers disconnected but 0 volt with them connected, found burnt fuse holder, making contact to pass voltage but to much resistence to pass current needed to run motors so voltage dropped to zero ( ohm's law).

 

Actually the door actuator motors that have been used for many years in both cars and trucks are tiny motors that draw almost no amperage. There probably are relays in most of the systems but it is to reverse the direction of the motor to lock or unlock, not because the draw is heavy.

 

The relays were for use with the RAP module for the keyless entry.
- driver's door unlock, all unlock all lock; located under the oval on the dash.

The CSM, the relays went away, and the module was designed to have the PDL directly connected to it.

CSM was in 2001 to 2003 ( and 2004 heritage & Lightning ) MY F150s.

No Relays or RAP module if it is a factory setup in a 2002.

Guess it could be an intermittent relay ( i.e. battery saver ) or an issue with the CSM, but the only way to catch it is to have it on the bench when it happens or remove & replace for the heck of it.

Don't know if this happens more after it rains or the truck has been washed.
- Seems the inspection for water showed nothing, but checking if this happens after getting wet, might just be starting ???
- Big SWAG.

 

Well, the shop has had the truck since my last post and yesterday they went to start it up and click. So both myself and the service rep were happy they were able to reproduce the problem. Sounds like they spent yesterday checking circuits and are hoping to have it tracked down by Friday, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

 

So here's where we're at. Dealer has had it since my last post (going on a month now). The gremlins have killed two more brand new motorcraft batteries. They thought might be something in the door, but opened it up and they said it was some of the cleanest wiring they've ever seen in a 10 year old vehicle. Talked with the tech and they said they're going to keep troubleshooting through the week, but he said they may have to give up and buy it back from me and look for a different one. I'm torn on how I feel about this, especially since I just put the body lift, aal, among other mods and purchased a SCT SF3 right before it had to go in again (haven't even had a chance to try it out as it came in the mail after I had to take truck back in). Can't really afford to upgrade to a newer model even with whatever they offer for mine, so would likely be just trading for another 02 or 03, maybe they'd let me take the BL and AAL in that case.

All in all a pretty disappointing day

 

Well, here is the final resolution for this truck. The problem is so intermittent the dealer has had trouble reproducing it, which needs to happen to diagnose the problem. So they decided to just replace the GEM module and cable to the starter as their guesses produced about the same options as my research here on the site. GEM did not look bad but they replaced anyway. Starter cable was corroded but was still getting proper voltage across.

Sadly since these two things were both replaced at the same time I will not have an answer as to what one fixed my issues, assuming the truck doesn't act up anymore. I have been very impressed with the customer service I've recieved through this ordeal, though I am mildly annoyed I was essentially without my truck since before Christmas. I still only have the $900 into it and have a whole host of new electrical parts, so wasn't ravaged as bad as I could have been. On the plus side for the dealer, my wife loved the 2012 Expedition we've had as a loaner the last 2 weeks so she is pushing hard to replace her minivan with that when the time comes (1-2 yrs)

Just wanted to post up what the latest "fix" was. I'm really hoping this does the trick.

 

Well, it was dead again on the 15th (1 after I got it back) and they have had it since, unable to reproduce the problem. I kept track of every accessory used and the speeds I traveled etc. so they should have had a list of what it would take to reproduce the problem. When it was dead the 15th did some trouble shooting myself before bringing to the dealer. hooked up jumper cables started it and let it run only long enough to take cables off. Started right back up. shut it off and waited 15 minutes, started right back up. I'm going in today to talk with them but am for sure going to ask if they've tested starter/solenoid. I'll see how the meeting goes, but sounds like they aren't going to give me jack on a trade in so I won't be buying a new (to me) vehicle from them.

Thinking I'll troublshoot myself and try to fix for a little while but then might just bite the bullet and start looking for an 06-09 screw.

 

man im sorry this is been such a continuous affair for you....

 

Thanks Patman, it is getting beyond frustrating. However, yesterday we may have had a breakthrough. Since we were talking about trading it, the sales rep took it for a spin yesterday around noon and parked it. Gave the keys to the mechanic and he went out about 3 hours later to move it and click. They tested battery and it is dead so it is nothing in the starting mechanism.

They went through what could draw enough amps to kill a battery in 3 hours and decided to take off the alternator. Background on the alternator is that I bought a "factory remanufactured" alternator from the local auto parts store, which I though meant it was rebuilt by Ford. It came in a Motorcraft housing with pulley etc. (which service rep informs me usually they don't and you put your old one back on) so I assumed it was decent quality especially since it was more expensive than the store brand. Apparently not, the exact quote from the service rep after they opened it up "it looks like a 4th grader did all the soldering."

Service rep said a lot of the connections look like they've been arcing and overall poor quality of the rebuild makes him believe there might be a diode sticking intermittently. I don't know anything about the electrical workings of an alternator beyond it's basic function, but I really hope this works out. I take the truck back tonight with a new Motorcraft alternator installed, to see if the problem happens anymore.

I hope that this is the end of my miserable electrical saga.

 

Wow I wouldn't have guessed that. Good find, and hopefully you'll keep us updated

 

Just goes to prove that even "new" or "reman" parts can be junk out of the box. I've learned not to assume that the diagnosis is wrong, and never assume a part is good just because you changed it out.

 

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who had input on the thread. I am not going to comment on the satus of the truck other than it is still working, however it's only been 2 weeks. I will reserve final judgement until it doesn't leave me stranded for over a month. Thanks again everyone

 

please update this thread after awhile. I have some similar issues as you.

 

Will do, as you can see I struggled with this for almost 9 months. Wouldn't wish it on anyone. I will make sure to update my status at 1, 3, and 6 months if I make it that long.