New Odometer - Crank but no start
#1
07-18-2012, 07:46 PM
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New Odometer - Crank but no start
Hi guys,
I just installed a new odometer cluster on my 1999 Ford F-150 XLT 4.2L V6 truck that I bought on ebay. When I bough this truck a month ago the previous owner informed me that the odometer had just been changed because of the known dim issue of the odometer clusters in these trucks.
Since I wanted the type of odometer that came with this truck as well as the real mileage on the odometer, I used Carfax and Autocheck to figure out real miles and bought a used odometer on ebay accordingly. So, I installed the new odometer and now the truck shows "Theft" blinking on the new odometer and cranks but does not start.
Interestingly, when I put back the old odometer the truck starts and without any odometer cluster connected it also starts flawlessly.
I only have one key and I do not know what the previous owner may have done to the previous odometer to make it work.
Any ideas of what I can do to make the new odometer cluster work on my truck?
Thanks!
I just installed a new odometer cluster on my 1999 Ford F-150 XLT 4.2L V6 truck that I bought on ebay. When I bough this truck a month ago the previous owner informed me that the odometer had just been changed because of the known dim issue of the odometer clusters in these trucks.
Since I wanted the type of odometer that came with this truck as well as the real mileage on the odometer, I used Carfax and Autocheck to figure out real miles and bought a used odometer on ebay accordingly. So, I installed the new odometer and now the truck shows "Theft" blinking on the new odometer and cranks but does not start.
Interestingly, when I put back the old odometer the truck starts and without any odometer cluster connected it also starts flawlessly.
I only have one key and I do not know what the previous owner may have done to the previous odometer to make it work.
Any ideas of what I can do to make the new odometer cluster work on my truck?
Thanks!
#2
07-18-2012, 07:52 PM
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#3
07-18-2012, 08:06 PM
This sounds to me like a problem with the PATS circuitry. These procedures may or may not help:
- Jack
If the "THEFT" light is flashing, use the following procedure to restore vehicle functionality.
Let us know if this helps.Turn the key to the "ON" position, but do not attempt to start the vehicle.
The "THEFT" light will begin flashing rapidly (twice a second). After about 60 seconds, the "THEFT" light will stop flashing rapidly and begin a sequence of slow flashes (usually 1 blink, followed by 6 blinks).
Turn the key to the "OFF" position and completely remove the key from the ignition and hold at least two feet away from the steering column for 30 seconds.
Insert the key and turn to the "ON" position. Wait for the normal engine checking procedure to take place. The "THEFT" light should no longer be flashing. At this point you should be able to start the vehicle.
If, after completing the above reset procedure, your vehicle still won’t start, try this:The "THEFT" light will begin flashing rapidly (twice a second). After about 60 seconds, the "THEFT" light will stop flashing rapidly and begin a sequence of slow flashes (usually 1 blink, followed by 6 blinks).
Turn the key to the "OFF" position and completely remove the key from the ignition and hold at least two feet away from the steering column for 30 seconds.
Insert the key and turn to the "ON" position. Wait for the normal engine checking procedure to take place. The "THEFT" light should no longer be flashing. At this point you should be able to start the vehicle.
Turn the key to the "OFF" position and remove the ground (-) battery cable (from both batteries if your vehicle is equipped with two) for a period of ONE HOUR to allow the theft codes to clear. Re-attach the cables and attempt to start the vehicle.
- Jack
#5
07-18-2012, 09:02 PM
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If the "THEFT" light is flashing, use the following procedure to restore vehicle functionality.
Turn the key to the "ON" position, but do not attempt to start the vehicle.
The "THEFT" light will begin flashing rapidly (twice a second). After about 60 seconds, the "THEFT" light will stop flashing rapidly and begin a sequence of slow flashes (usually 1 blink, followed by 6 blinks).
Turn the key to the "OFF" position and completely remove the key from the ignition and hold at least two feet away from the steering column for 30 seconds.
Insert the key and turn to the "ON" position. Wait for the normal engine checking procedure to take place. The "THEFT" light should no longer be flashing. At this point you should be able to start the vehicle.
If, after completing the above reset procedure, your vehicle still won’t start, try this:
Turn the key to the "OFF" position and remove the ground (-) battery cable (from both batteries if your vehicle is equipped with two) for a period of ONE HOUR to allow the theft codes to clear. Re-attach the cables and attempt to start the vehicle.
Turn the key to the "ON" position, but do not attempt to start the vehicle.
The "THEFT" light will begin flashing rapidly (twice a second). After about 60 seconds, the "THEFT" light will stop flashing rapidly and begin a sequence of slow flashes (usually 1 blink, followed by 6 blinks).
Turn the key to the "OFF" position and completely remove the key from the ignition and hold at least two feet away from the steering column for 30 seconds.
Insert the key and turn to the "ON" position. Wait for the normal engine checking procedure to take place. The "THEFT" light should no longer be flashing. At this point you should be able to start the vehicle.
If, after completing the above reset procedure, your vehicle still won’t start, try this:
Turn the key to the "OFF" position and remove the ground (-) battery cable (from both batteries if your vehicle is equipped with two) for a period of ONE HOUR to allow the theft codes to clear. Re-attach the cables and attempt to start the vehicle.
I tried the first method, it was exactly as you described, flashing for about a minute and then a sequence of slow flashes. Unfortunately it didn't work, I just disconnected the battery and I will try to reconnect and try to start the car in an hour.
If the second (disconnect battery for an hour) method does not work I will ask at the Ford dealership tomorrow as Patman recommended above.
Hopefully, I will have good news in an hour.
Thanks again!
#6
07-18-2012, 10:16 PM
#7
07-18-2012, 10:57 PM
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#8
07-19-2012, 06:17 AM
#9
07-19-2012, 09:36 AM
#10
07-19-2012, 11:07 AM
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If I take a good odometer then the truck will work without it, but if I put the new odometer cluster then it "blocks" the system and it will not start with or without the odometer installed. When I put back the good odometer (the old one that is programmed to the truck) then it will "unblock" the system and the truck will start with or without the odometer cluster on.
I just went to the dealer and they quoted me $175 for a new key as well as the programming. I have an appointment for tomorrow morning unless I can figure out a way to make it work before then.
Here is an idea, how about I put the old odometer that works to unblock the system, then cut the cable that handles PATS on the new odometer, preventing the new odometer to block the system. Do you think guys this setup will work? I guess that will be assuming I know which one is the PATS wire and assuming that will not break something else.
Thanks!
I just went to the dealer and they quoted me $175 for a new key as well as the programming. I have an appointment for tomorrow morning unless I can figure out a way to make it work before then.
Here is an idea, how about I put the old odometer that works to unblock the system, then cut the cable that handles PATS on the new odometer, preventing the new odometer to block the system. Do you think guys this setup will work? I guess that will be assuming I know which one is the PATS wire and assuming that will not break something else.
Thanks!
#11
07-19-2012, 11:34 AM
#12
07-19-2012, 12:04 PM
The dealer's response supports what Patman said. The PATS needs a key that matches the transponder in the cluster. The cost you were quoted at the dealership seems about right to me too. Is that for two keys? You want two so that you will be able to program more on your own.
I don't think there is any way for you to locate and move the old transponder to the new cluster.
I think I read too much into one of your earlier posts. It sounds like you have to have the cluster mounted in the truck for anything to happen, right? I was thinking you said the vehicle would start with NO cluster present at all.
- Jack
#13
07-19-2012, 06:59 PM
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There's no transponder in the cluster. The serialized RFID tags are in the keys. The cluster reads the key's ID code and compared the code to what is stored both in the cluster's memory and in the PCM. They all have to match or else engine operation in prevented You cannot cut a cable to bypass this problem.
Go to the dealer tomorrow and get it fixed properly
Go to the dealer tomorrow and get it fixed properly
#14
07-19-2012, 11:07 PM
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Jack,
Indeed the truck will run without any cluster as long as the cluster that was previously installed was the "good" one. If I take the "good" cluster out, the truck will run normally. But if i try to crank with the "new not synced" cluster in, the truck will not start and it will not start after I take the "new" cluster out. If I put the "good" cluster back in, then everything goes back to normal and the truck starts normally, with or without the cluster installed.
The price is for 1 key and the programming of the cluster.
ProjectSHO89,
Thank you for your advice, I have an appointment at the dealership early in the morning and I cannot wait to get it fixed. I hope nothing else goes wrong "miraculously" while at the dealer
Thanks all!
Indeed the truck will run without any cluster as long as the cluster that was previously installed was the "good" one. If I take the "good" cluster out, the truck will run normally. But if i try to crank with the "new not synced" cluster in, the truck will not start and it will not start after I take the "new" cluster out. If I put the "good" cluster back in, then everything goes back to normal and the truck starts normally, with or without the cluster installed.
The price is for 1 key and the programming of the cluster.
ProjectSHO89,
Thank you for your advice, I have an appointment at the dealership early in the morning and I cannot wait to get it fixed. I hope nothing else goes wrong "miraculously" while at the dealer
Thanks all!
#15
07-20-2012, 12:57 AM
There's no transponder in the cluster. The serialized RFID tags are in the keys. The cluster reads the key's ID code and compared the code to what is stored both in the cluster's memory and in the PCM. They all have to match or else engine operation in prevented You cannot cut a cable to bypass this problem.
Go to the dealer tomorrow and get it fixed properly
Go to the dealer tomorrow and get it fixed properly
But, to the OP: see if they'll program an extra key for just a little more. It will be worth it.
- Jack