Read This If You Have Custom Edge Issues !!!!
#61
10-11-2007, 02:32 PM
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Very true... I guess the point I was trying to make was that adjusting the timing is not as straightforward as everyone thinks it is. There is still a great deal of calculation going on in the PCM in an attempt to achieve the "ideal" spark advance. However, with everything else being equal it is usually easiest to change the main spark tables with minimal changes elsewhere. At least for me it is and it has always yielded quite impressive results. Once you get into forced induction, head changes, compression ratios, etc., the more you need to pay close attention to the modifiers or you end up with either catastrophic engine failure or mediocre performance.
I miss mechanical distributors and carburettors...
BTW, how in the heck did we get so far off topic??
Are we having fun yet?
Bill
I miss mechanical distributors and carburettors...
BTW, how in the heck did we get so far off topic??Are we having fun yet?
Bill
Last edited by ASEMechanic; 10-11-2007 at 02:36 PM.
#62
10-11-2007, 02:33 PM
#63
10-11-2007, 02:52 PM
On the issue with the level 3 shudder...I got the new replacement Edge unit the other day. I tried to install it but it wouldn't work. Fist problem the original cable wouldn't power the unit up. The new cable did though. Is there something different between these cables? Or is my cable bad somehow? The new one does have a small plug at the end where it plugs into the obd port.
Well after using the new cable it wouldn't initialize So I called Edge and spent 30 minute on the phone with them. They said they have to sent me another new unit.
So for now I don't know anything. When I get the new unit I'll check it out and if I still have the issue with level three I'll post it.
Well after using the new cable it wouldn't initialize
So I called Edge and spent 30 minute on the phone with them. They said they have to sent me another new unit. So for now I don't know anything. When I get the new unit I'll check it out and if I still have the issue with level three I'll post it.
#64
10-11-2007, 05:41 PM
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The two cables are not compatible. Lemme break it down like James Brown...
Evo2 (from late 2005 to early 2007) used the old OBDII cable without the extra nipple on the end. (Heh... I said nipple! :P )
Evo2.5 (from early 2007 on) ses the new OBDII cable that has the extra dodad on the side of the connector to plug in an extra sensor (to be determined in the future).
As for why it's not working... couldn't tell ya.
Hope this helps a little.
Bill
Evo2 (from late 2005 to early 2007) used the old OBDII cable without the extra nipple on the end. (Heh... I said nipple! :P )
Evo2.5 (from early 2007 on) ses the new OBDII cable that has the extra dodad on the side of the connector to plug in an extra sensor (to be determined in the future).
As for why it's not working... couldn't tell ya.
Hope this helps a little.
Bill
#65
10-11-2007, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ASEMechanic
Idle adjustment is an adder, not a percent, so 125 = Stock+125 RPM, or about 725 RPM in Neutral and 650 RPM in Drive.
The general rule of thumb for timing adjust is:
As far as Tire Size, I have actually found that Ford uses around a 7% squish factor based on values I used in the IDS scan-tool. However, when doing a rolling test of the tires, I have found that 5% works better.
WOT fuel... Stock is 1.10. I have found that at sea-level, values of 1.5 tend to work well. At altitude, 1.35-1.40 works well. For full exhaust and CAI, 1.6-1.75 seems to help clear up that slightly lean condition at WOT.
Hope this helps.
Bill
The general rule of thumb for timing adjust is:
- Add .5 degrees for every octane point.
- Add .5 degrees for every 1500 feet of elevation.
- The engine will experience detonation long before you hear it. The Knock Sensor will compensate for any minor knock resulting from additional timing, but only so far. The max timing the Knock Sensor can pull out is usually around 6 degrees so it is possible to have more advance than the PCM can safely correct for. When in doubt, back it out.
As far as Tire Size, I have actually found that Ford uses around a 7% squish factor based on values I used in the IDS scan-tool. However, when doing a rolling test of the tires, I have found that 5% works better.
WOT fuel... Stock is 1.10. I have found that at sea-level, values of 1.5 tend to work well. At altitude, 1.35-1.40 works well. For full exhaust and CAI, 1.6-1.75 seems to help clear up that slightly lean condition at WOT.
Hope this helps.
Bill
Add .5 degrees for every octane point, does this mean for every octane point above 87 Octane fuel? or add .5 degrees for every octane point above the recommended level of octane that each tuning level calls for?
Also, just to verify, let me know if this is correct:
LEVEL 1: 87 OCTANE
LEVEL 2: 87 OCTANE, BUT YOU MAY REALIZE AN INPROVEMENT WITH 89 OCTANE
LEVEL 3: 91 OCTANE OR HIGHER
Thanks Buddy, I appreciate your knowledge and time!
#66
10-11-2007, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by F15D
Add .5 degrees for every octane point, does this mean for every octane point above 87 Octane fuel? or add .5 degrees for every octane point above the recommended level of octane that each tuning level calls for?
Originally Posted by F15D
Also, just to verify, let me know if this is correct:
LEVEL 1: 87 OCTANE
LEVEL 2: 87 OCTANE, BUT YOU MAY REALIZE AN IMPROVEMENT WITH 89 OCTANE
LEVEL 3: 91 OCTANE OR HIGHER
LEVEL 1: 87 OCTANE
LEVEL 2: 87 OCTANE, BUT YOU MAY REALIZE AN IMPROVEMENT WITH 89 OCTANE
LEVEL 3: 91 OCTANE OR HIGHER
Originally Posted by F15D
Thanks Buddy, I appreciate your knowledge and time!
Bill
#67
10-11-2007, 10:51 PM
WOT fuel... Stock is 1.10. I have found that at sea-level, values of 1.5 tend to work well. At altitude, 1.35-1.40 works well. For full exhaust and CAI, 1.6-1.75 seems to help clear up that slightly lean condition at WOT.
_____
well... running level II in my 2007 5.4 I set my WOT fuel to 1.6 and still get a pop when doing a 0-60 blast. Scares me to death... I won't do that anymore with the edge! It drives great otherwise.. always hear pinging even at light throttle. This is with shell 87 octane fuel. Busy newer station.. so good fuel.
_____
well... running level II in my 2007 5.4 I set my WOT fuel to 1.6 and still get a pop when doing a 0-60 blast. Scares me to death... I won't do that anymore with the edge! It drives great otherwise.. always hear pinging even at light throttle. This is with shell 87 octane fuel. Busy newer station.. so good fuel.
#68
10-12-2007, 08:46 AM
Originally Posted by chris1450
For full exhaust and CAI, 1.6-1.75 seems to help clear up that slightly lean condition at WOT.
And - no offense to Bill, but a gross fuel adder is not the best way to mitigate effects to/ correct for MAF TF deviations.
Originally Posted by chris1450
well... running level II in my 2007 5.4 I set my WOT fuel to 1.6 and still get a pop when doing a 0-60 blast. Scares me to death... I won't do that anymore with the edge! It drives great otherwise.. always hear pinging even at light throttle. This is with shell 87 octane fuel. Busy newer station.. so good fuel.
The presence of continual pinging is worrisome. That should not occur - please refer to the discussion on knock sensing system retard functions to see what I'm talking about....
This is not a flame - I'm just trying to help as a fellow end-user.
Participation from the experts would be most welcome
!Good luck!
****
#69
10-12-2007, 12:02 PM
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MGDfan,
The WOT Fuel adjustment is only applicable to, you guessed it, WOT fuel situations where the PCM would go into open loop and switch to the base fuel tables. The other 99.8274391% of the time the PCM runs off the MAF and O2 sensors and the WOT enrichment makes no difference.
I certainly agree that using a multiplier to effect gross fuel changes is not the best way to correct minor fueling inconsistencies, especially when implementing a CAI or exhaust, but the MAF usually does a more than adequate job of handling compensation for the minor changes in airflow when making these relatively minor modifications. Usually... I've done minor changes to the MAF functions while monitoring the front 02 sensors along with long-term and short-term fuel trims and have had perfectly acceptable results with a stock (long-block) truck.
However, moving on to modifications such as major engine work, forced induction, camshafts, nitrous, etc., there is no way to tune for those except on the dyno (preferably a load dyno) with using no less than an external visual knock sensor, a wideband O2 sensor upstream (preferably two, one on each side), and a data-logger capable of no less than a 200Hz (5ms) sample rate. Anything short of that will virtually guarantee an engine failure.
Anyway, I’m rambling. Just throwing some random thoughts out there.
Later.
Bill
The WOT Fuel adjustment is only applicable to, you guessed it, WOT fuel situations where the PCM would go into open loop and switch to the base fuel tables. The other 99.8274391% of the time the PCM runs off the MAF and O2 sensors and the WOT enrichment makes no difference.
I certainly agree that using a multiplier to effect gross fuel changes is not the best way to correct minor fueling inconsistencies, especially when implementing a CAI or exhaust, but the MAF usually does a more than adequate job of handling compensation for the minor changes in airflow when making these relatively minor modifications. Usually...
I've done minor changes to the MAF functions while monitoring the front 02 sensors along with long-term and short-term fuel trims and have had perfectly acceptable results with a stock (long-block) truck.However, moving on to modifications such as major engine work, forced induction, camshafts, nitrous, etc., there is no way to tune for those except on the dyno (preferably a load dyno) with using no less than an external visual knock sensor, a wideband O2 sensor upstream (preferably two, one on each side), and a data-logger capable of no less than a 200Hz (5ms) sample rate. Anything short of that will virtually guarantee an engine failure.
Anyway, I’m rambling. Just throwing some random thoughts out there.
Later.
Bill
#70
10-12-2007, 12:53 PM
Originally Posted by ASEMechanic
MGDfan,
The WOT Fuel adjustment is only applicable to, you guessed it, WOT fuel situations where the PCM would go into open loop and switch to the base fuel tables. The other 99.8274391% of the time the PCM runs off the MAF and O2 sensors and the WOT enrichment makes no difference.
I certainly agree that using a multiplier to effect gross fuel changes is not the best way to correct minor fueling inconsistencies, especially when implementing a CAI or exhaust, but the MAF usually does a more than adequate job of handling compensation for the minor changes in airflow when making these relatively minor modifications. Usually... I've done minor changes to the MAF functions while monitoring the front 02 sensors along with long-term and short-term fuel trims and have had perfectly acceptable results with a stock (long-block) truck.
However, moving on to modifications such as major engine work, forced induction, camshafts, nitrous, etc., there is no way to tune for those except on the dyno (preferably a load dyno) with using no less than an external visual knock sensor, a wideband O2 sensor upstream (preferably two, one on each side), and a data-logger capable of no less than a 200Hz (5ms) sample rate. Anything short of that will virtually guarantee an engine failure.
Anyway, I’m rambling. Just throwing some random thoughts out there.
Later.
Bill
The WOT Fuel adjustment is only applicable to, you guessed it, WOT fuel situations where the PCM would go into open loop and switch to the base fuel tables. The other 99.8274391% of the time the PCM runs off the MAF and O2 sensors and the WOT enrichment makes no difference.
I certainly agree that using a multiplier to effect gross fuel changes is not the best way to correct minor fueling inconsistencies, especially when implementing a CAI or exhaust, but the MAF usually does a more than adequate job of handling compensation for the minor changes in airflow when making these relatively minor modifications. Usually...
I've done minor changes to the MAF functions while monitoring the front 02 sensors along with long-term and short-term fuel trims and have had perfectly acceptable results with a stock (long-block) truck.However, moving on to modifications such as major engine work, forced induction, camshafts, nitrous, etc., there is no way to tune for those except on the dyno (preferably a load dyno) with using no less than an external visual knock sensor, a wideband O2 sensor upstream (preferably two, one on each side), and a data-logger capable of no less than a 200Hz (5ms) sample rate. Anything short of that will virtually guarantee an engine failure.
Anyway, I’m rambling. Just throwing some random thoughts out there.
Later.
Bill
My only concern was for 'seat-of-the-pants' WOT enrichment without anything in the way of instrumented 'feedback' confirming those changes actually made an appropriate/beneficial difference - other than 'aural' feedback lol.
I guess 'arbitrary' is the term I was looking for. I'm just not an 'arbitary' kinda guy, meeself - far too OCD for that
#72
10-12-2007, 04:47 PM
OK, I received the new unit today and installed it. Now I have a issue with this one 
recap here:
First unit (original)
Ver.# E3.13.14A
Lot.# 030622.3
Manuf date was 3/13/2006
Ser.# I didn't get it before I sent it in for repair.
I don't know what my HEX was when I was using this one. I had my pcm reflashed while I was waiting for a repair on it. see problem V
This unit had the level 3 shudder and a burn mark in the screen. I sent it in for a new screen. Edge went ahead and sent me a new unit instead.
Replacement unit (#1)
Ver.# 9
Lot.# 100712
Manuf. date was 10/3/2007
ser.# 000010606
Hex code # RXCM5A6.HEX
This unit would not initialize with my truck. I spent 1/2 hr on the phone with Deloy @ Edge trying to update it, it wouldn't. Funny thing here was the screen on the unit was bright red when it was plugged up to my PC. (it that normal?). While in the truck it was green.
Replacement unit (#2)
Ver.# 9
Lot.# 100712
Manuf. date 10/9/2007
Ser.# 000010754
Hex code # RXCM5A6.HEX
I tried to run level 2 and three 3 custom tunes, changes are as follow:
Timing advanced +1.75 running 93 octane
WOT Fuel set to 1.40
Speed limiter set to 110mph
That's all the adjustments I made. I didn't look at anything else. The problem I had was with full throttle (from a stop) I couldn't go over 40mph unless I let off the gas for it to shift. Otherwise the rpms where heading to the max not shifting at all. I also noticed after it would shift and I was driving around 45 if I push on the throttle enough to cause a down shift, it would shift and feel like it was in to high of a gear (no power). I pushed the pedal down farther and made it shift again and then it felt normal with power (like it was in the right gear)
Another thing I noticed, with this unit over my original one. When running level 3 it feels like this unit shifts similar to what level 2 did in my fist unit, but harder. If I push the pedal down 3/4 to all the way if shifts extremely hard, like it shudders into gear. Almost like it's overturned or it's on steroids.
I'm not happy with this at all. Deloy is supposed to call me back tonight and help me resolve this. But that still doesn't make me feel any better about the situation. I though Edge had a better handle on what they do. After this gets straightened out I'm getting rid of this thing and getting me a X-cal. I didn't really think I would benefit much from on of those since I don't have any performance mod. Power wise it may not really be much of a difference, but at least I should get a tune that really works without any issue.
BTW, I didn't notice any shudder in level three like before with the first unit.
recap here:
First unit (original)
Ver.# E3.13.14A
Lot.# 030622.3
Manuf date was 3/13/2006
Ser.# I didn't get it before I sent it in for repair.
I don't know what my HEX was when I was using this one. I had my pcm reflashed while I was waiting for a repair on it. see problem V
This unit had the level 3 shudder and a burn mark in the screen. I sent it in for a new screen. Edge went ahead and sent me a new unit instead.
Replacement unit (#1)
Ver.# 9
Lot.# 100712
Manuf. date was 10/3/2007
ser.# 000010606
Hex code # RXCM5A6.HEX
This unit would not initialize with my truck. I spent 1/2 hr on the phone with Deloy @ Edge trying to update it, it wouldn't. Funny thing here was the screen on the unit was bright red when it was plugged up to my PC. (it that normal?). While in the truck it was green.
Replacement unit (#2)
Ver.# 9
Lot.# 100712
Manuf. date 10/9/2007
Ser.# 000010754
Hex code # RXCM5A6.HEX
I tried to run level 2 and three 3 custom tunes, changes are as follow:
Timing advanced +1.75 running 93 octane
WOT Fuel set to 1.40
Speed limiter set to 110mph
That's all the adjustments I made. I didn't look at anything else. The problem I had was with full throttle (from a stop) I couldn't go over 40mph unless I let off the gas for it to shift. Otherwise the rpms where heading to the max not shifting at all. I also noticed after it would shift and I was driving around 45 if I push on the throttle enough to cause a down shift, it would shift and feel like it was in to high of a gear (no power). I pushed the pedal down farther and made it shift again and then it felt normal with power (like it was in the right gear)
Another thing I noticed, with this unit over my original one. When running level 3 it feels like this unit shifts similar to what level 2 did in my fist unit, but harder. If I push the pedal down 3/4 to all the way if shifts extremely hard, like it shudders into gear. Almost like it's overturned or it's on steroids.
I'm not happy with this at all. Deloy is supposed to call me back tonight and help me resolve this. But that still doesn't make me feel any better about the situation. I though Edge had a better handle on what they do. After this gets straightened out I'm getting rid of this thing and getting me a X-cal. I didn't really think I would benefit much from on of those since I don't have any performance mod. Power wise it may not really be much of a difference, but at least I should get a tune that really works without any issue.
BTW, I didn't notice any shudder in level three like before with the first unit.
#73
10-12-2007, 05:35 PM
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Wow!!! you should have read this whole thread. Check out my Edge problems. I also have HEX RXCM5A6. kinda funny huh???
Somehow my file is lost or missing???? Link no work. What exactly is the difference between lost and missing??? are they not the same?
Seriously what is so different about the "RX" Hex codes. When I got my edge 6 months ago my Hex wasnt even supported. https://www.f150online.com/forums/sho...he+edge+ba ck
Last edited by Ftruck05; 10-12-2007 at 05:37 PM.
#74
10-12-2007, 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by Ftruck05
Wow!!! you should have read this whole thread. Check out my Edge problems. I also have HEX RXCM5A6. kinda funny huh???
Somehow my file is lost or missing???? Link no work. What exactly is the difference between lost and missing??? are they not the same?
Somehow my file is lost or missing???? Link no work. What exactly is the difference between lost and missing??? are they not the same?
So basically my Edge is fine from reading your post. It just doesn't support my calibration since it was reflashed and apparently they still don't have any software to support my truck now since it was reflashed. No problem. I'm getting rid of it. This is not intended to be a for sell post I already have someone that was interested in it a while ago. If he doesn't want it it will be in the classifieds so please don't email me unless it from there.
Thanks for the post Ftruck05, that make me feel a little better.
WooooHoooo!
