10's will work too, I was just trying to see what I can do.
basically I just want to have a good system that will sound GOOD, I don't care how it sounds from the outside. If I want to hear it out there I will open the doors and or windows. Figured the 12's would give better sound and whatnot but like I said 10's will do too.

Also I have the early 99 seats that fold down not up.

Would 2 10's sound better than 1 12? Would 2 even fit under the 60% of the rear seat I have available?

If i was to get a second amp to power 4 speakers (doors) would i need some kind of 2n'd battery or a capacitor or something? What kind of charging systems do you guys have in your trucks??? the 95 amp alt or the 130? maybe an aftermarker "High-Output"?

 

Two 10" subs will fit under there and probably sound a lot more crisp than a single 12" sub. Personally, I'd go for the 10" flat Pioneers. I put one in my buddy's Nissan Frontier run by a Kicker ZX400.1 amplifier, and it sounds great inside and out! Also, if you got a second amplifier for your door speakers, then you should be fine with just a 4awg wiring setup. I'd say you can get an amp to run 50Wrms @ 4ohms x 4 for your doors and another amp to run 400Wrms @ 2ohms x 1 for your subwoofer and only use a 4awg power and ground. All in all it really depends on how much power you are drawing from your system. If you're going to draw between 60 to 100 amps, I'd upgrade to a deep-cycle battery. If you're going to run between 100 to 140 amps, I'd do two batteries (preferably deep cycle) and a big 3 upgrade. Anything 150 amps and over, I'd go with an HO alternator. I'm no expert and those are simple suggestions. Power capacitors are less important than a proper electrical system. They aid in powering your amp during spikes of current draw, but overall are still a load on the alternator. They don't help prevent your lights from dimming. If you do intend on getting one though, calculate roughly 1 farad for 1000 watts.

 

Any thoughts on this setup?
1) 2 Kicker L7 10"
2) 1 Kicker zx1200.1 or zx1000.1

and for wiring:
1) 1/0 guage wire (dual amp kit) setup from battery to distro block and second amp setup in package to Big3
2) 4 Guage cable to each amp from distro block. Sub and Whatever I get for the 4 door speakers.

Would the 1/0 be overkill to the Distro? would that even be doable?
would all this make it so that I would have to upgrade the battery and such?

I'm looking at doing this over time (if I do it) or all at once (if done professionally) but I would like to do it myself so that I can say I did. XP

Thanks for your help and putting up with me... lol

 

Haha! I hear you on the pat on the back! I feel there's no greater pride than what you do with your own hands. The 1/O won't be "overkill" for the distro block. Just make sure to get a distro block that has fuses in it to protect the 4awg wiring as well, and that the distro block has (1) or (2) 1/O in with some 4awg out. The ZX amps are mean, and the 1000.1 should run your 10L7s just fine. Realistically, the 1200.1 won't make a huge difference in audio, or at least not in my opinion. But if you can find a 1200.1 for the same price as a 1000.1, TAKE IT!!!!!!!!

Your battery is just a starter while your alternator is the maintainer. If more current is drawn from your alternator than your alternator can push out, that's when power is drained from your battery. Alternators produce more power the faster the pulley spins.

With this in mind, you would not only need a big 3 upgrade for a 1000Wrms amplifier, but you'd also want to consider a deep cycle battery (Optima Yellow Top for example) or 2 under the hood (because 2 will fit the stock battery plate perfectly). If you listen to music loud constantly, or music that is heavy in bass (like rap, hip hop, some techno, bass songs), then you'd want to be on the safe side and invest in an HO alternator especially if you're going to run a 4 channel amp drawing 30 amps or so. I personally feel an HO alternator is needed when your sound system draws more than 120A continuous.

Other people may disagree with me about what I would do in your case, but I heard a 2nd generation Camaro on the road one day from about 100ft away, over the droning of the Flowmaster 40 on my 5.4L F150 with the windows up. This thing was LOUD! Well about a couple of miles up the road, his car just died in the middle of the street. I pulled over and talked to him about his system while giving him a jump start. He had his stock alternator with a yellowtop battery, big 3 upgrade, and (2) Rockford Power 1501bd amps pushing (2) 18" RE XXX subs @ 2ohms each and a 10 farad cap. He just got it installed at his house a couple of miles away and was running the $@&# out of it for about 15 minutes straight. I'll never forget that system, it was insane!

Anywho, point of the story is that when you're running a lot of power, you want to make sure you don't put your sound system in front of your spark plugs or you'll be left without power for either.

If you don't want to go through the hassle of getting a new alternator and changing out your battery or adding another one, you'd be surprised how loud 500Wrms and a carefully built box can be. Also, if you're going to run 1000Wrms, I'd go with 12L7s instead of the 10L7s. Once you get that much power in your bass, then you're going for BASS, and nothing less.

 

Would the zx500.1 have enough strength to push the 2 10's or would i have to look into other sub speakers? the l7's are 600/1200 rms/peak @2 or 4o. ('m looking right at Kickers site trying to figure this out) I'd like to try and stick with the L7's because they don't need as much room as say the compVR's do, Not by much but still.

What numbers should I be trying to match up and what would the cushion room be for them? I don't want to have an amp pushing the speakers too hard to blow them but I don't want a whimpy amp that isn't pushing hard enough to make the speakers not work right and kill the amp.

Say I went with the 500.1 would adding a zx850.4 (215x4) be taking to much or would you reccommend going more around the 650.4 (175x4)? would totaling that to 1350.5 (the 500.1 & the 850.4) make sense or would those numbers be off because of 1 being mono and the other being a multi-chanel? also would 1 amp be able to do 4 speakers (front and rear left and right) or would I have to get 2 amps, 1 for front and 1 for rear? how would you go about that kind of setup?

I have 4 door speakers that say 1000wmax/pair that I was thinking of putting in the truck and I emailed a seller of them and they said it was about 200wrms but I don't know how acurate that is because none of the audio shops I've gone to pricing a sub system have known of the brand. (pics in post 72 if you haven't seen them)

My ultimate goal is to get those 4 speakers in the doors amp'd and have a sub under the rear seat and make the board to go behind the seat with the amps. All sounding good. doesn't need to be competition grade as long as it can get loud and still sound good.

I had found this which is basically what a local shop quoted me for a 300w rig out the door, cash. That is why I asked. http://cgi.ebay.com/KICKER-ZX1000-1-...item518edf94a3

again sorry for being a pain in the rear, I'm just trying to get this right.

 

Well, the unfortunate circumstance is that if you want to go loud, then you'll need to spend a lot exponentially. The more bass, mids, and highs you want, the more things you'll have to do to get it. I wouldn't suggest going with 2 channel amps. A 4 channel would do just fine if you intend on running all your door speakers. I'd also go with the ZX650.4 amp. It says 170W x 4 channels, but that's rated at 2ohms and more than likely your door speakers are going to be 4ohms. General rule of thumb, when you double the resistance, you'll halve the power, and vice versa (only exception to that rule would be with JL Audio amplifiers, and the Alpine PDX amplifiers). So that amp would push around 85 watts into each door speaker, given your door speakers are 4ohms. Lots of door speakers don't handle over 100 watts anyways. Most of the time when people want more mids and highs to match their subs, they would add more component or coaxial speakers.

As for the subwoofer amp, I'd hang with the ZX1000.1 in your case. The site says it will push 1000 watts @ 2ohms, so try to match your subs to that impedance. The site also says the 10L7 comes available in either dual 4ohm voice coils, or dual 2ohm voice coils. If you want two subs, and want to match them to 2ohms for optimal amplifier power usage, then you will need the dual 2ohm woofers. Parallel the woofers' voice coils individually and you'll run 1ohm per subwoofer, then series the subwoofers to eachother and you'll get 2ohms. It's usually best not to exceed a manufacturer's rated RMS power for the subwoofer unless you're into burping then it's no holds barred. The same applies with mids and highs.

So I would go for the ZX650.4 for the door speakers and the ZX1000.1 for the woofers, but that's just me. I feel the sound would be pretty crisp as long as you tuned the headunit and amplifiers together. But with that kind of power, I'd definitely go with a big 3 upgrade and a deep cycle battery or two. That much would be the minimum. An HO alternator would be recommended, but you might not actually need it if you don't listen to your system at it's highest potential all the time. There's just the risk of your truck shutting down in the event you're sitting idle somewhere blasting your beats like the Camaro owner I helped jump start, lol.

If you'd like other opinions, get a hold of these users. I kinda pay attention to some of the things they have to say because they seem to know their stuff as well.

Low e Red, Stealth, Sundevil2188, mSaLL150

 

Thanks!

Especially ask the 1st, 3rd, and 4th guy on that list. I'm still learning but do know a little bit, mainly stuff I learned from those three.

 

I to you my good sir, For you have helped me on a decision.

I think I have decided on what I plan on doing. I'm going to look into the dual s10L7-2o with the 1000.1 and wait on an amp for the doors and try the speakers and see how it sounds like that, I don't think I will even need the door amp, but if need be then I can always upgrade and get that at a later date.

You seem to know alot more than me and you are helping me with this and you sound more than quite knowledgable so I will take what you say to thought, If any of Stealth, Low e Red, Sundevil2188, or mSaLL150 has anything else to say I don't mind hearing it. I just wanted to make sure before i bought anything that it will all work together and not blow each other to Kingdom Kome. Thank You for all your help and Patience putting up with my MANY upon MANY questions.

Another quick question. When it says it needs X amount of space inside the box do I have to multiply that by 2 for 2 subs or would the space be shared?

also does anyone know where seat lifts are sold?, just incase i happen to need one.

 

It is all good sir, lol. Mobile electronics are my hobby and passion and I'm still learning about them every day. I learned the best when I messed up, and believe me I have messed up a lot over the years, lol.

And with air space, that is calculated per woofer. The only way you can combine two woofers into the air space designated for one woofer is in an isobaric configuration. There are many types, but a common one is when a driver is inside the box while the other is on top of it. They both move out of phase of eachother, meaning one is pushing and the other is pulling at the same time. But since they are facing eachother, they are going in the same direction, allowing much more power to be applied. Sorry to get into detail kinda off topic, but that's what it means, lol.

Just throwing some numbers and information out there, if a 10" woofer that displaces 0.15cuft calls for 0.65cuft of internal air space in a box, then you would build a box with 0.65cuft of internal air space. Now I'm sure you have seen setups where the magnet is facing outward, or invert-mounted. Knowing the woofer's displacement is a good thing to know in this case because you would need to subtract the displacement of the woofer from the air space required for it's box. So if you wanted to mount a 10" woofer with 0.15cuft of displacement downside-up when the box calls for 0.65cuft of internal air space, then you would need to build a box with only 0.5cuft of internal air space.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask and I'll try to be as helpful as possible. The only thing I can't help you with is where to find seat lift kits. I haven't the slightest clue where they can be found. Try the search feature on this forum, I'm sure you can find some info on where to find them.

 

If you haven't already seen it, check out the12volt.com. It's an awesome site with lots of reference material.

 

hey again, I have the subs, amp, and wiring ordered and should be here monday. Now I am facing what kind of box should I try and make?

I was thinking of making a single box that goes across the pass 60% of the rear like in the picture below minus the red line in the middle, However, I have been looking things up and it sounds like I should be looking into making it basically 2 boxes in 1 with the red line being a dividing/seperating wall inside the box. I don't have the measurements onhand (They're in the truck and i don't feel like going out now) but overall how does this concept look to you. Any feedback is appreciated.

*note: the wires would be run like option 2 on here http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/wo...s.asp?Q=2&I=22 and all out one side, I only seperated them in the pic because I also thought of maybe doing 2-single enclosures.*

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That box looks good, so long as it will fit. But personally I would keep it one single chamber. In this case since the driveline hump will be in the way, one side will have less air space than the other. Carefully calculate where you will put the center divider. I honestly believe it's there mainly for structural support, or as a bracing for the top and bottom boards. If I were to build that box, I would use a center brace but keep it one big chamber (per say, if your box is going to be made 12" deep, I would use a piece of board 6" in the middle to help with structural support). This will ensure that your woofers are both moving the same way all the time, where as if you did create a solid divider and one side had more air space, it would produce sound a bit differently from the other. Sometimes it goes unheard, but it's just good common practice. There is, however, a positive side to making two solid enclosures. If a woofer blows out, then you can still get sound out of the other. But since you're running power to two woofers that can handle the power, I don't think you'll encounter that issue.

And yeah with your woofers being dual 2ohms each, that's how you will run it. It shows the woofers series to eachother then parallel. Good luck with your install and if you have any other questions or concerns, you know where to find us!!!

 

ok, now that I am onto the "building" stage of the upgrade, I noticed that in the book that came with the subs that it says "All sealed-enclosure airspace should be filled to 50% loose poli-fill (Polyester fiberfill) stuffing." Did anyone else do anything like this or are your subs just in an empty box? If you did, Where did you get the stuffing?

I haven't bought anything for the build stage yet, I kinda wanted to get it all at once and make the box in a day or two (not rushing but still getting it done) so that I can let the caulk cure and not damage the subs with the toxic fumes I'm told the caulk emit during cure-time.

EDIT: Also what all would I need to get? being dual voice coils do I need to get 2 sets of Terminal Cups for each sub or will just 1 be good? Any info appreciated

 

Walmart... you can get stuffing for $1 for a 1lb bag... it's the same stuff used in small pillows. Alternatively, www.parts-express.com for that and a bunch more stuff.

You don't need to use terminal cups for the subs. If you wire the subs inside the box, you just need to run two bolts through the enclosure for your hookups. A terminal cup is nice, but if you won't see it, I don't see the reason to spend money.

 

Like kuruption said, Wal*mart has poly-fill. It's not expensive. I'm not sure of the price exactly, but it's good to get. I use poly fill in the majority of my installs. I didn't with my recent one because I was too lazy to go to the store, lol. I should though, it will help "tighten" the bass.

Also, if you're running 1000Wrms, I would not use terminal cups. I can't imagine those little thin pieces of metal carrying sufficient power to your subwoofers. In my builds, I drill a small hole through the box and poke the wires through it. Then I silicone the inside of the box around the hole, inside the hole, then around the hole on the outside of the box. A system is only as good as it's weakest link, and that is one of them. If you're worried about being able to plug and unplug your box if you need to remove it, then I would use a high-powered connector. I'm only running 300Wrms to my system but I used a connector of this fashion.

Traxxas is a name brand of remote control vehicles. They have a connector that I personally usef for my subwoofers. The connectors are designed to withstand 50A of constant current without melting the soldering, terminals, or plastic housings. Look into that if you need connectors. If not, then just run straight wire to your box. But I would not suggest using any terminal cups.