I also want to thank those that took the time (and abuse) to share what info. they had to this thread. With only one exception, everyone has brought up points worth considering. I seldom post and mainly use the info. I learn here to help ask the right questions and become a little more knowledgeable consumer. I would like to say I appreciate the efforts of those who try to expose individuals who attack others, but I don't. I typically can see that for myself. I think it's safe to say that most everyone else can too.

Sorry for not contributing to the original intent of this thread. I just felt the need to thank those that share what they know, disagree constructively, and make this forum valuable to the silent many.

Steve

 

Oil Man
In looking back at your post on 07-22
I noticed that Quaker State
had better wear resistance than Mobil 1 synthetic, but poorer oxidation resistance.
To me the wear resistance would be much more important than oxidation resistance IF YOU CHANGE YOUR OIL FREQUENTLY.
For the price of a Mobil 1 oil change I could get THREE Quaker State oil changes ( approx. 3000 miles) Say for instance I were to get QS oil change every 2000 miles or so, at that short a drain interval,not even the cheapest oil would show appreciable oxidation.
So in the never ending quest to save a buck, would I not be doing my engine (and my wallet a favour) by going with a QS oil change more often and benefit from its anti wear properties while negating its oxidation resistance ability?
Sounds good to me, what do you think?


[This message has been edited by Simon G (edited 07-31-2000).]

 

The problem with the QS and the lower oxidations resistance, is that when the oil does start to oxidate you are changing the visosity properties of the oil and thus changing the "wear" protection.

Believe me that it doesn't take even 2,000 miles for some oils to oxidate to a certain degree. The exact degree can only be determined by analysis. Thus if you are wanting to try the QS I would say at 3,000 miles try an analysis to see what type of physical properties are left.



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Lube-Direct


New Lubrication Forums

 

There is no point to your posts! Just throwing some back at ya...
There is no point to any of these posts.
Whats next? Spelling B?

 

There is no point to your posts! Just throwing some back at ya...
There is no point to any of these posts.
Whats next? Spelling B?

 

My point is that you spend a LOT of time belittling anyone who's disagreed with you. You've made it patently clear about your education, or rather how you have it but no one else does. These commonalities seem to point to YOUR having the inferiority complex, do they not? Your poor attempts at wit only show an extreme lack of maturity. You've said you were not going to spend time trying to offer proof to disbelievers, yet you continue to rant and rave in hopes, I would surmise, in swaying this same group. No one but you, and your one or two minions, really cares. Everyone has made their minds up long ago as to what they believe or dismiss as crap. By the way, there are no two year or associate's degrees offered in mechanical engineering. Engineering degrees offered at the A.S. level are classified as "pre-engineering." A college catalog can verify this. I shall eagerly await your next rambling and/or weak insult.

 

Have fun and hope everyone finally gets somewhere with these questions. Doubt it! No one seams to want to have a discussion with any substance. OR *****!

I have happily deleted all my postings. I no longer wish to contribute and I'm sorry I wasted all that time!

BTW: Has anyone bothered to do a search on the username KILROY? All his posts in the last 30 days are something like "party on Garth" and "BOO HOO..." Dont worry the search returns about 3 threads. So when the professor does decide to come out of his trailer and join, his statements are positive, profound, and ponderous!

KILROY: Your opinion and wit is worth as much as the grit under your fingernails. I'll be watching this website to find your next brilliant posting. Just in case you where wondering, yes it feels REALLY nice to be rich!

 

I too am happy you've deleted your postings so that everyone else can move on now.

 

SimonG,
Yes the QS had next to the lowest wear rate of all the oils tested. And yes you could run it and change your oil often, but like MSParks said oils can oxidize quick. I have seen Shell Rotella-30 turn into a SAE 40 in only 2,200 miles. I would not run the QS over 2,000 miles, but up to there you should be OK. On the other hand why would you not go with the Mobil-1 oil and change your oil at 6,000 miles or the LE oil and go 6,000 miles??? and 1/2 of the wear!!! Besides the LE oil can go 10,000 miles and more if you want to go that far, but then you would have to get into oil analysis.

Sincerely, Kevin

 

Oilman, What is the pour point and ash percentage of LE 5w30? thanks.

 

Thanks for all of the oil information - more than the ‘average’ guy needs to know but very interesting. I have two points - first - where did the magic ‘3,000 mile’ oil change interval originate? Certainly there must be some basis for this in unbiased research. Two corollaries to this - first - if I recall from the first time I ‘helped’ my Dad change his oil in the mid ‘60s, the oil change interval was 3,000 miles. I know manufacturers are stretching this out but many of the posts along this thread use the dogmatic 3,000 mile interval and - second - why would it be the same for my ‘87 Mazda 323 (120,000 miles on Quaker State Dino) with a 1.6 4 liter (4 qt crankcase) and my 2000 5.4 l F-150 Triton? The other point is regarding engine tear downs. I will digress for a moment and apologize in advance. General surgeons learn that unless they end up removing some normal appendices, they are certainly missing some that are diseased. In other words they sometimes open up a person and remove an appendix that is normal in retrospect. This is not improper medical care - the clinical decision to operate is based on a number of findings and no matter how good your judgement nature can throw curve *****. Anyhow, if an engine is being rebuilt there has been a very serious problem. The fact that sludge is or isn’t present does not prove the sludge had a direct cause and effect relationship to the breakdown. Obviously engines that aren’t broken don’t get torn down routinely. This goes back to all of the previous posts that have asked for solid evidence rather than here-say. In order to ‘test’ lubricants it would require a massive evaluation. In the medical arena we use “double blind prospective cross over” studies. That does not refer to driving while intoxicated with your foot out the door to feel the center stripe. It refers to the fact that neither the subject nor the evaluator knows which arm of the study the subject is in. For example when person X changes to synthetic oil no matter how ‘unbiased’ he or she is there are always some expectations. In a double blind test, the driver would not know in advance which oil they had. Two things amaze me - the difference of opinion that arises on this site and the similarities between the human body and the automobile. Furthermore, the person monitoring the driver (taking measurements, doing oil changes) on the vehicle would not know either. The cross over part of the test would mean that each driver would have one oil for a predetermined period of time and then be switched to the other brand or type. This would be incredibly expensive and take a long period of time. If this has been done it generally is on fleet vehicles that receive heavy usage and accumulate miles quickly yet have consistent maintenance. The only way that this could really be accomplished with a minimum of bias would be by bringing together the Petroleum Engineers and a consumer organization such as Consumer’s Union. My opinion is that this is unlikely to be done on a large scale although if I recall there was a such a report some years ago in Consumer Reports Magazine. Anyway, keep up the great debate! And may you never have right lower abdominal pain.

P Duntley
2000 F-150 SC Lariat 5.4 4x4 Deep Wedgwood Blue

 

Stephen,
Pour point on LE 5w-30 is -40 deg F. and the Ash Mass% ASTM D-874 is 0.64

Kevin

 

Duntleyp,
Wow, long post lots of questions. Here goes...
The 3,000 mile oil change is before my time, so I asked another guy that has been around longer than I have. As far as I can tell the 3,000 mile oil change interval was what the car mfg's set when cars were V-8's and used 5 quarts of oil and ran 160 deg F thermos and ran low RPM's. This was in the time that oils were not as good as they are today, but it worked back then. Today the oils are much better but the cars run less oil, higher temps on the thermo (210 deg F) and rev higher, and have smog devices that increase the emissions back into the engine to be run over again. Hence the same 3,000 mile intervals. However that recommendation is from the auto mfg's and they know that the API spec that they agree to is the miminum spec that they will agree to. The average oil will just barely meet this minimum spec and if tested after 1,000 and sometimes less will not pass the spec. Other oils will pass the spec even after overheating and long oil drains etc. Why? because they were designed to be the best. This refining process and additive package of high quality is also what costs more when you buy the oil. It is impossible to buy a 1.25 per quart oil that has the same additive package and base oil tech that an oil that costs 5.00 per quart. This is not the case in the reverse. Just because you buy an oil that is 5.00 per quart does not mean that you are getting the high quality base oil and additives, some think that they might be getting ripped off. The reason is that they don't know the real quality of the oil they purchase and have no means to test or compare the oils. I am trying my best to help with that on this post and will continue to if asked.

I have seen in the past oil companies do double blind tests with large trucking co's I know that LE has done them vs the major co's and others as well. We don't know what the others did for sure but got the numbers of the tests. What I mean is that we know what our numbers were, and they were a LOT better than the others. We don't know which numbers were matched with the other conpanies but it did not matter, because we were so far ahead of the rest. This test was with our 15w-40 and diesels (DD 60 series) and a large chain of stores co. The LE oil went 64,000 miles in the city trucks and 85,000 miles in the line trucks on an oil change. The other oils were only able to go 13,000 to 22,000 miles on the city to line haul trucks. After 1,000,000 miles each truck was torn down and measured for wear and visual deposits. The engines without exception using the LE oil were like an engine that only had 200,000 miles on it and looked VERY clean. The LE engines had NO inframe rebuilds and the other oils had at least one of not two inframes and were in need of a complete rebuild at the 1,000.000 mark. All but one of them were fairly clean but one of them had gone too long for the detergent package and was sludgy. (none of the personal knew what oils were being tested in each truck and all drums were marked A,B,C,D,E. Each oil co. had 125 trucks to work with and all oil tests were done at independant labs not owned by any of the oil co's.

In a test that I did for one of my customers the shop forman (builds pro-stock engines) rebuilt two engines (small block chevy), put two new carbs on both and then tooned them on a smog machine to get them as close to the same as he could. He put Shell Rotella SAE 30 in both of them and ran them for 5,000 miles switching them between routes every week and drivers also. After the 5,000 breakin period he drained the oil out of both of them and put new oil in LE SAE 30 in one and Shell Rotella SAE 30 in the other. He ran them for 500 miles each and drained the oil. He then put the LE and Rotella in again and ran them until oil analysis said to change. The Rotella went 2,200 miles and had to be changed because of oil thickening to an SAE 40. The LE oil was in perfect condition at 6,600 miles and that was gook enough for the shop forman, but not his boss. His boss said he wanted to change the oil in each truck to switch oils. We did this and saw the same results. (drivers and routes were switched every week) Fuel milage was also recorded and the LE had 2.8 mpg better on the first truck and 1.9 better on the second truck with no flush between the two oils. All analyis was done by an independant lab and samples were taken by the shop forman. These are the type of tests that my customers make us do to prove the value of our oils so that that info can be presented to the people that make the decision to change oil. When dealing with cities and counties we must do tests to prove that they are saving $ or they can not buy the product. They have to buy the lowest bid or prove the savings before they buy a higher priced oil.

Edit info;
I forgot to mention that the LE oil had 52 to 138% less wear than the Shell oil had and that is at the 6,600 to 2,200 intervals. What I mean is that the LE had up to 138% less wear at 6,600 miles than the Shell did at 2,200 miles

Sincerely, Kevin



[This message has been edited by Oil Man (edited 08-02-2000).]

 

I know this topic has been beaten to death already, but I found this thread and think others will find it of interest.

 

Yes, the good old days!