OK, here is an update. Drove approx. 150 miles yesterday. Inspected both cans today. Found 1/2 teaspoon of oil (each) in both cans. So, if one is driving 3-400 miles a week or is on a trip the cans will have to be emptied weekly. The return hoses are still clean, so the setup is working very well. I will make a tutorial of the setup when the fabricator sends me the cans. Looks like I will be able to offer the cans at a very good price based on my conversations with the builder. The install will take 30-45 minutes total and is very easy. This is the primo setup for saving the cylinder heads and intake valves......The Moroso cans and various others are just too expensive, these will be black and will fit in with the rest of the engine compartment decor, not blingy, and not ugly. The cans have a built in screening media, not a fiber or steel wool type. They are metal perf screens (3) that screen the fumes and drop the liquid to the bottom. The cans have a drain valve built in. The only modification to the engine will be cutting the vent tubes to re-route the new hoses. When one looks at the install, it will be pretty much self explanatory.

 

What about for guys that are dropping 1000-1500 miles per week? Is there going to be a larger capacity canister? Should this oil go back into the oil pan?

 

The cans will hold more fluid. It will be ok to drive that kind of mileage.
The oil can be returned to the oil filler or disposed of. The oil I have witnessed is good clean oil.

 

Incredible that Ford engineers haven't thought of this. Seems like such an obvious design omission. Thanks for the update.

 

I’ve read there is an oil separator built into the valve cover on the EB. I have not gone so far as to pull my valve cover off to check it out. This location keeps the oil hot so that it will easily flow back into the pan and not gum up

The problem with the remote set-up is that it has to be drained. That is not something that people will accept on a new vehicle. Or if the oil is put on some type of drain it will cool and there is a chance it can gum up. This will only lead to a bigger mess as the crankcase pressure will build up then and cause problems inside the motor.

Oil mist in the PCV system has been an issue since motors went to a closed system. In the old days the pressure and oil mist was just vented out the top of the valve cover. This made a mess and was also a pollution source. That practice was stopped a long time ago and led to the oil finding a way back into the intake. Some car makers have been working on this for a while now. Porsche added a few ways to combat oil getting into the combustion chamber from the intake on the 928s in the 80s. They knew it hurt the power and it was not a good thing. I have a feeling this is why their DI motors do not exhibit the buildup that some of the other makers do. They cleaned up the PCV system a long time ago; the other guys are playing catch up.

 

[QUOTE=Wookie;4834407]I’ve read there is an oil separator built into the valve cover on the EB. I have not gone so far as to pull my valve cover off to check it out. This location keeps the oil hot so that it will easily flow back into the pan and not gum up.

There is...It doesn't work.



The problem with the remote set-up is that it has to be drained.

If one does not want to do the mod, one could remove the intake and wire brush the ports and the valves, Which would you prefer?

 

The problems listed in this thread are exactly why I ordered mine with a 5.0L. If the EcoBoost had not have been a DI motor, I would probably have bought one. (maybe not though as it does not changes the fact that the turbos at some point WILL die.)

Many people on other platforms plumb their catch cans to drain back into the oil pan. There is nothing wrong with doing it and it will save you countless manual drains.

There's another little thing out there used in the performance world called water meth injection that is used to cooling intake charges and boosting octane ratings. One of its side effects is a squeaky clean intake tract as it does provide a form of fuel wash through the intake and over the valves... It does a very good job - we all know what alcohol does to oily surfaces =) ...anyways, that is another option you guys might consider. It does come with other risks and benefits, but the fuel wash part is what is most relevant to this thread.

 

The turbos are designed for 200,000 miles, they are cast stainless steel, are liquid and oil cooled....I am not concerned about the turbos.

Draining the cans is a non-problem and takes 15 seconds each. Plumbing to the cast aluminum oil pan, I would guess, can create warranty issues as would any kind of alcohol injection. It would take longer to fill the meth supply than it does to drain the oil canisters. This is, by far, the way to do it.

 

No need to be offended my friend.

you are talking to a guy who has 3 vehicles and 4 "liquid and oil cooled" turbos currently sitting in his driveway. I don't care what they are "designed" to do... its what they will do. They are not made out of anything more special than any other OE turbo... you can't use cheap materials on something that spins in excess of 140,000rpm. Bottom line is they are a wear item with a service life (and an optional one at that). When the time comes that they do die, its going to be an expensive date... prior to that happening though, you will likely get to enjoy tracking down several boost/vacuum leaks along the way. No matter how well it was engineered, the more complex something is, the more likely it is to fail. That's just the way it is. The 3.5 EB will make a great motor for its first owner who leases it... the next one maybe not so much.

200k miles is nothing. take a look at the number of the guys on here and other forums that have over 300 and even 400k on their F150s. Fast forward a few years when this chassis is in that situation... There's a good chance they would be on their 3rd set of turbos - while still being in spec for the turbo service life. For each set of turbos, you are probably looking at in the neighborhood of $3,000 or more for the pair, that's not including the bill for labor. (pure speculation on my part, however it is not difficult for a turbo to cost $1500 or more)

I did not come in here to bash the 3.5. I only came in here to offer up another option to use in place of or in addition to a catch can because it is something I have seen work on other DI motors... That is all. Your catch can idea is a good one, but it is not going to be 100% either... its just going to extend you time between cleanings.

Yes, a water/meth kit will likely void a warranty... Then again, so will a programmer that many guys on here already run. You might be worried about your warranty and be uninterested... others might see it as an option to look into. I did not post my first statement for you and only you. Different strokes for different folks, it is all about being informed and user preference. Just because you do not like the idea does not mean it does not work.

 

Your numbers are more than DOUBLE what the EB turbos can be had for new. For a quick reference I checked fastpartsnetwork.com for the part. Brand new turbos can be bought right now for $740.84. As popular as this motor is I'm sure there will be ramaned ones on the market soon for 1/2 - 2/3 of that price. A rebuild kit for the Garrett turbos used on the SHO motors runs right around $100. I doubt the Borg-Warner units on the F-150 will be much priced different than that. Getting to the turbos on the F-150 doesn't look bad at all, they're right behind the fender liner. That only leaves flushing the oil/coolant lines if one of the bearings completely frags itself.

To put it differently, a new turbo for the EB costs about what a dealership will charge for changing the plugs on a 5.4L if a couple break.

EDIT:
One other thing to consider. The motors in those trucks that are getting 300k-400k were only duty tested for a 100k life. Just because a product has a listed life cycle it does not mean that's exactly when it will fall apart. That number is the minimum time the manufacturer expects the product to work. I have not seen the MTBF numbers on the turbos on the F-150. That is the more accurate expectation for how long they will last.

 

Not offended...... I really want a fix that makes sense and doesn't go over board as far as installation, initial cost and maintenance as well as keeping the warranty issues at bay.
I myself have owned plenty of turbo and supercharged vehicles. I had one turbo go out in over 20 years and that was when it had 6,000 miles on it. But I do use good oil and change it on time, maybe I'm lucky.
The return tubes from the cans were cleaned when I installed the setup and they remain clean with no oil residue at all. All this setup cost me is $175.00 to put together, It works, I will consider it "the fix" unless something better comes along............

 

Can you put up a pic of the hoses you're checking? I almost have my project car back to driving again so I can pull the truck in and check mine over. I have 29,5xx on it now. If it is sucking oil it should have a good bunch of it there by now.

 

You guys both make valid points. Maybe I am overly skeptic of the EB... and my prices were high... that's what I get for owning Audis. You get used to everything costing a fortune. God knows ze Germans make things more complex than they need to be. It is refreshing that Ford was forward thinking enough to make these trucks serviceable. It was refreshing to see an uncomplicated engine bay as well as ROOM under the hood the first time I pulled the hood on the new 5.0. Glad to hear the EB sounds to be the same way.

I don't want to derail your thread any further, water/meth was only a suggestion from a passing thought. It's not really any more difficult to install than your solution so it seemed like a viable addition/alternative when I first spoke up.

Kudos to you for taking the time & effort to do this, do it well, and share it with the community. Needs more pictures though

 

The hoses are the grey plastic lines from the valve cover on the pass side and the same kind of hose on the dr side, but it goes to the intake tube from the turbos. They will be dripping with oil or very wet. Will get pics ready when the new cans come in. Will be here in a few days.

 

I saw this thread today and needless to say I wasn't real happy about it since we just bought a truck with the Ecoboost in it. While doing some more research about the issue I came across this article that I thought others might find interesting. The article is almost a year old but contains information specific to our discussion.

http://www.autoobserver.com/2011/06/...-adopters.html

That bit I quoted was obviously specific to the Ford Ecoboost but the article discusses several other manufacturers engines along with a potentional root cause.