Jimmy Mac,

Some good advice posted above. I asked about the LS rear because sometimes they "shudder" going around corners but now that I understand your constant 40 mph + shudder it would seem to leave out a LS rear shudder.

Jim, I don't know what to tell you and I can understand your frustration. There is no excuse for the dealer not to have an idea of the problem or how to adjust it. I am far from a transmission expert.

There seems to have been much discussion here from time-to-time regarding transmission shudder but I never read the solutions.

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Dunbarton "The Middle Aged Kid" '99 XLT SC SB 4x2 4.6 auto 3.55 ls The occasional Z-71 Eater! Wedgewood & Denim, SuperChipped, Airaid FIPK, HD electrical and cooling, power seat, Rhino Liner, Extang Classic tonneau cover, Mobil 1. Man, I got it all! (New Jersey)

 

Wrong, it was the factory fill in a 97 4R70W at least early on. Mine was a build date of 3/96.

Well interesting point, but my dealer did go back with Mercon at the 30K service point in it as was the inital fill type in my 97. He and I were concerene dthat the clutches and stuff were *used to* the Mercon and it wass working well so we kept it up. I don't have it anymore but if I had it to do all over again or I might would have changed it to Mercon V, most likely, but its a moot point now.

We will agree to dissagee huh?

[This message has been edited by cphilip (edited 05-07-2000).]

 

After my 10 mo. of shudder , I won't use anything not MERCON5 rated. A lot of sensors + the PCM were changed before they came up with the fluid change. The tech said Ford had him flush the trans-lines-coolers. I knew I was being screwed when they told me what they did. That was 25k back & no shudder since.

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97 Lariet-sc-4.6-4x off road-auto-3.55 LS-
superchip-K&N-Poweraid-3"
pvc air box mod-Granetelli MAF

 

If you use Valvoline Durablend, it makes no difference whether your transmission uses Mercon or Mercon V because it's rated for both specifications (as is Quaker State's synthetic blend). ATP makes a friction modifier that can be added to Mercon to bring it up to Mercon V specifications. Did NO ONE read the earlier post regarding this?

[This message has been edited by kilroy (edited 05-08-2000).]

 

Quote: "The F250/F350 crowd with the Powerstrokes are experiencing massive tranny failures due to the Mercron V fluid being unable to handle the increased loads."

Absolute hogwash! Have no idea where you are coming from on that one. Rumors gone wild I guess. The F250 and F350 use Mercon. not Mercon V. While it is true that there are reports of some Power Stroke Diesels having some tranny problems but no more than most. Ford Factory Tranny Rep feel they are causing most of there own problems by over loading these trannies because the PSD can pull it. They are also investigating some changes to the tranny cooling system to eliminate some of this which is due to oeverheating. It is not that big of a problem for the rest of us. The Ford Factory Transmission Service Rep also says Ford has noted some problems with errosion of the teflon seals in trannies that use Mercon V that were originaly designed for Mercon. They (Ford) are not recommending that anyone put Mercon V in a 4R100 tranny like on the Superduties. This info was collected at a Ford-diesel.com rally where Ford sent Representaives to last month. This is what they said to the members there at the rally.

 

cphilip,

Well I'll give you a bit of that, but no I am not chasing rumors. Go to www.ford-diesel.com and do a search on 'Class Action Law Suit' and you'd be surprised what you will come up with.

Mostly you have gentlemen with the 4R100 tranny's that are failing on them. I may have slightly exaggerated my statement and for that I apologize, but the amount of transmissions that are failing are quite real.

As a result of their recent VA rally and the addition of a couple FOMOCO people, that may be where you find your information about the overloading of the trannys. FOMOCO has realized that although the transmission may be rated for 1000 ft/lbs of torque, they have misread how often these owners would be using most of the rated horsepower. Now, there is a case of whether or not the users are overloading the vehicles, and this has yet to be determined but needs to be addressed by both parties. Nonetheless these transmissions are failing, and as a result (or at least it has been reported) FOMOCO had to implement an improved transmission fluid (Mercron V) to install in these transmissions to be able to handle the extra heat and torque. Normal Dextron III fluids (bituminous or non-synthetic) simply are proving that they cannot handle the sheer related molecular stresses, nor can they withstand the increased heat that is generated.

The seal issue is one that is open for debate, as the teflon seals may be failing due to the type of teflon used. Not necessarily as a result of the fluids incompatibility with teflon. However most of the better fluids have this type of thing in mind when they are formulated and you should investigate this before using this type of rating for determining fluid choice.

Randy

 

Nothing has come of any lawsuit. Its the same here with the F150 lawsuit thing. Anyone can try to sue. Read the latest thread that two owners are pissin and moanin about thier failed trannies and both state clearly they were overloaded. Yes trannies have failed for other reasons but no more than any other tranny. Strange that most are on PSD's. Not really. When taken as a whole these things work well if you take care of them.

 

I still don't if amsoil is MERCON 5 rated.

 

NO!! Amsoil DOES NOT have a Mercon V rated fluid!!! Neither does Redline or Mobil 1! Don't believe half of what the cult of Amway/Amsoil tells you. They make a point of spreading misinformation and attacking their competition AND many of their products ARE NOT API rated!! Amway/Amsoil cult leaders have a real hard on for Castrol. If their products were as be all end all as they claim, then they could stand alone without attacking the competition. Mercon V is approximately 1/3 (one third) synthetic, that word from ExxonMobil, who currently produces the majority of all Mercon V, including Ford's.

 

Randyw:

There's a major error in your last post.

Mercon V was not developed for the 4R100. In fact Ford cautions to not use Mercon V in the 4R100!

Mercon V was developed for the 4R70W and the 5R55E (the 5 speed in the Explorer/Ranger).

The factory fill Mercon V is a synthetic blend. Aftermarket Mercon V that is not Motorcraft brand may have no synthetic, partial synthetic, or full synthetic. The specification to meet the Mercon V rating does not specify synthetic, but the operating characteristics are easier to meet with at least partial synthetic fluid.

There are some brands of Mercon V fluid that have no synthetics.

Mark

 

Gentlemen,

Good information all, but there seems to be some confusion on the requirements of the Mercron 'V' rating and the fluid that meets this.

From what I have heard (from both the lubrication industry and the FORD dealers I
have talked with) the Mercron V is simply a newer transmission fluid with increased VI modifiers and it is a full synthetic fluid to be able to compete with the increased load/temperatures that the new trannys are going through. The F250/F350 crowd with the Powerstrokes are experiencing massive tranny failures due to the Mercron V fluid being unable to handle the increased loads. Ford is working on a fix and this looks to partially include a 'new' Mercron V and uprated trannys for different truck applications.

Due to the Nov 1999 Better Business Bureau ruling between Castrol and Mobil and the ensuing lack of a official definition of the term 'synthetic' there really isn't any way to determine what FOMOCO means when it says that the Mercron V is a synthetic.

Suffice to say the least you should use is the new Mercron V, as long as it is recommended, for proper tranny operation. Not to steal msparks thunder, but Amsoil already has an ATF that exceeds even the newer Mercron V ratings (however I'll need him to confirm that ). The boys over at Ford-diesel.com use it all the time and they have been rated Mercron V since the late '90s.

Some brands to choose from are Amsoil, Mobil, Redline and (possibly) Royal purple. These companies should be enquired as to the compatibility with the Mercron V to be sure.

I would like to add that if you have to add a seperate additive to the existing fluid to bring it up to 'standard' then you should drain that fluid and add one that is good to go from the start. These types of additive-based upgrades are not good science and they usually don't work as well as you would like.

Synthetics provide the best protection available, hence the reason why all vehicle manufacturers are going to them in most applications.

My dad went all synthetic in his '99 F250 (Mobil 1 all the way around), he pulls a 10,000 lb trailer on vacations through the adirondack mountains (Big 5.4L engine) and picked up 2.5 mpg LOADED!!! Proof is in the pudding. My tranny-challenged Taurus also loves the Amsoil ATF (shifts better, drives better and doesn't get anywhere near as hot.. GREAT stuff).

Hope this helps.

Randy

 

Thanks Guys,

I appreciate the corrections, not my intention to mislead at all, just may not have as much information as I'd like.

cphilip, I apologize, you are certainly correct in that the primary reason that there are these transmission failures seems to be due to overloading. I'm sorry if I lead people to believe that there was an overriding problem.

Mark K. I had read from some knowledgeable gentlemen on the Ford-diesel site that FOMOCO was developing the Mercron V rating (you are correct in that it is only a rating) for the 4R100. However, I would question the caution against it, as that goes against the body of knowledge that I have heard about. Could you get a clarification?? I'll try for one on my end too.

I also know that this rating is just that a rating. However FOMOCO seems to be having some trouble getting the heat-resistance characteristics they want and are increasingly going to the synthetic choice as their blends don't seem to hold up well. You are correct as well that many aftermarket manufacturers may have different methods of reaching the Mercron V level, so research for the properties you want is important.

Amsoil currently has tested their ATF against the Mercron V standard that is out (it changes alot) and the ATF that they have is currently outperforming that spec. The reason that they don't say that on the bottle is they don't want to have the same problem that they did with Chrysler and their ATF+1,2,3 & 4 ratings. That required a couple of different labelling runs and that cost too much money.

Okay Kilroy, this is twice that I'll respond to you. For your benefit as well as those on this board. I am not an Amsoil dealer, just someone who values their product line and its performance. As I have pointed out in the above post, the ATF is certainly qualified as the Mercron V ratings is still under development. Your information from ExxonMobil is relevant, but the standard is not set yet due to the challenges with their current transmission line.

If I have purposely misinformed anyone I apologize, but as this is the 2nd time that maligned me. I will require proof that I have mislead people. As cphilip and Mark K. have added to this thread there is more that 2 sides to a point and I appreciate their involvement. You are correct in that many Amsoil products are not licensed with the API. The reason that is, is because Amsoil doesn't have the money to license everything they make with the API. They do however make sure that every product they make meets all applicable requirements.

This is a common practice outside the big oil companies, as Redline, Royal Purple and Synergen do not have many API ratings either.

I have never attacked any product line outside of the facts available. As I have stated in another thread, Castrol was found to have changed their syntec product from a Synthetic PAO based oil to a mineral based oil without telling the public. This is especially dangerous as they still rate it for 'Turbo' use. This may not bother a non-turbo person, but the $4.5/qt that they charge for a $1.5/qt oil may bother some of you. It will do the job of an SJ oil, but it is not a synthetic oil (as determined by most of the industry and Lubrizol Oct. 1999 Harts lubricants world).

If you have any other challenges Kilroy please mail me offline as this type of ranting does nothing for the board and only wastes bandwidth.

Randy

 

I have confirmation. Mercon V is not to be used in the 4R100.

I have a copy of TSB 98-8-8 that states that Mercon V was introduced in 1997 with the 4R44E and 5R55E transmissions. In the 1998 model year Mercon V was added to the 4R70W and the AX4S/AX4N transaxles. It also states that Mercon V IS NOT INTERCHANGEABLE at this time with Mercon.

I have it on very good authority that 4R100 will never recommend using Mercon V.

Mark

 

Good Job Mark K.!!

I guess I got messed up between the 'Synthetic' discussion and the 'Mercron V' discussion.

So, back to the original question. Is synthetic Mercron worth it if replacing trans. fluid??

Yes, absolutely, but as Mark has shown us, don't use a Mercron V ANYTHING in the 4R100!!

Randy

 

redlariet,
It's good to see that after 10 months of shudder, your problem was solved with MerconV.
However, I believe I have the 4r100 trans and therefore should not use Mercon V. So, after spending almost 100 bucks for a fluid change, should I now have another one and use a full synthetic? This will cost over $200...which I am willing to do if it will cure my shudder problem. I would just like some assurance from some of you guys that this is a reasonable *next step*
Thanks,
Jim Mc