update!!!
will get to the pics once I get all the chit figured out....

and the winner!!!
forward clutch apply piston seal ....dead.. causing piston to bind inside of drum.

Tranny started doing "neutral drops" very badly so I parked it to prevent BREAKING stuff.
I rebuilt tranny with raybestos ffrictions/steels, Timken stuff and new bushings too... Also all new electronics epc, shift solenoids and TCC. Included a SONNAX SURE CURE kit., even put 1 spring back under the 1-2 accumulator

Tranny worked fine, perfect for 2 days ....? NOW
when it gets warmed up it slips in first from a stop, or if it downshifts to first if I gag it... it slips. It took 3 or 4 times for me to figure out wtf was going on. I have NOT taken pressures yet!!!

Truck is parked until I get get gauges mounted on hood agagin. When its "cold" it works perfect...full gag from dead stop.... spins the 35"s.... After another test drive again after it warms up.. I find that it is actually 2nd gear that "shudders" thumps...during a full throttle kickdown from 3rd gear (ie passing...)

I destictly remember the stack-up on the intermediates... was .852 (spec called for .853 +/- .020 as my case measured 2.510 with .700 bar)

 

HELP!!


have pressure readings now.
Idle
line= 62+
Forward clutch = 60
intermediate= 55

wot stall

forward= 180+ (in DRIVE)
intermediate= 180 ish (manual 2nd gear)

Heres the problem: when it's cold everything works flawless. !!!
when it get well warmed up..... slipping in 1st and 2nd gear.
I noticed initially it was a light "thump" when it shifted into 2nd... been testing since!
I can NOT MAKE the truck duplicate the problem.... I can only pay attention to when it does... so as to not floor it and smoke my fresh build???

Today after truck was warmed up driving about 30 min... I noticed a slip into 2nd gear. I proceeded try and watch/record gauges while I drove vehicle (secluded road) to "enduce" a medium 1-2 shift. The gauges do NOT react fast enough to indicate EXACTLY what is going on as intermediate gauge is on 0 then when shifting the clutch has already applied before the gauge is able to register... but I have video.

The main concern at this moment is: while noticing the slipping I stopped and pulled truck into MANUAL 1st gear. "stabbed" the throttle.... noted the forward circuit gauge reading of 110 ish while trans was slipping and bucking violently. :o (only a test)

so ... WTH is wrong now? how does it work sometimes...and NOT others I find this hard to be a mechanical problem yet do not see exactly how any of the electronics (shift solenoids, epc) could have this affect. Piston circuit shows pressure .. but slips... SOMETIMES???

I also think that 2nd is NOT actually slipping but it's the forward clutch slipping when the added torque from the gear change is applied during the shift.

 

My thoughts are that you missed something in the forward clutch circuit. Something that might have been causing a problem and letting the forward clutch slip. The heat from that slippage could have caused the lip seal in the forward clutch to fail. 2

Or, while cleaning it all up, something got left behind.

If it's slipping, it's burning up again every second it does it. From here I have no idea what is causing it.

Sorry to hear.

D

 

right now my primary concern is obviously to NOT smoke the tranny.
NOTE:
slipping/etc.. spongy shifting is ONLY relative to 1st and 2nd.
3rd gear shift is consistantly GREAT!
1-2 shift gets spongy as it get hot?

The Tool & Die maker in me requires to remove all the sh*t I "updated" via SONNAX to the valve body. and reinstall the OLD solenoids and epc, pressure valves, springs....etc! Yeah I might be wasting my time but just cause it's NEW doesn't mean it's good!! ALL the old stuff was functioning fine....tranny had 1 mechanical failure (lip seal), NOW with several new and improved stuf.... sh*t don't work.....hmmm

More saga to come soon!!!

 

I hate when this happens. 2nd time I've spent over1 hr on a reply getting info, only for it to be dumped when I hit post.....

good news. seems I've fixed it.
bad news I'm too pissed to type all this sh*t again ... atm

 

if you have trouble making a long post you can do it in wordpad or notepad and copy and paste it into the forum. That way you wont lose it with a glitch.

D

 

ok too elaborate:

I dropped the pan and noticed 1 thing immediately!!!
Filter was laying in the pan. :O (I'm not sure if I cased that as I took the pan off as you must manipulate it to clear the rear x-member)

Fluid looked OK .. kinda "cherry color" not fruit punch and NOT bloody mary.. lol

So I continued on my predetermined path of removing "un-proven" items. After I removed the shift solenoids I noticed what appeared to be a crack around the "nipple" of SS1. Unfortunately I dropped it and it broke off before I got a pic.

I removed SONNAX pressure regulator and boost valve - reinstalled FORD OEM stuff, removed new epc (red plug) reinstalled OEM (white plug) and visually looked over EVERYTHING.

note: 1-2 accumulator mod. I made a small spring locator to insert into the accumulator and the end cap (think washer with a locating tit ... not a hole) so as to use the small blue spring under the accumulator. IIRC I tested BOTH lower springs with the large yellow @ about 70 lbs and the little blue @ about 45 lbs. Running with NO spring was just a little too SNAPPY, so I wanted to ease it up just a little.
(blue spring sux too.... still too much sponge! )

Trans seems to work correctly NOW. I will give it a week of thrashing to make sure the problem is SOLVED before I say it is squared away!!! Maybe I just haven't "STRESSED" it hard enough yet

BTW a very big thanks to the ONLINE COMMUNITIES!!! without it I would have surely been in some ^&*().

the extra 6 3/4" lock ring you find after you fully assemble your 4r70w (they added after 1998 model) goes behind the 2nd gear band in the case! There is NO groove, it holds NOTHING, it doesn't even really LOCK. It just kinda sits on some SMALL machined surfaces and provides the band with a shoulder to cry on. NOT all assembly view drawings show this lock ring!!!! :O

(now the next guy can find it on the internet when they search)

 

Filter fell out???

No offence meant here because it sounds like this is the first time you have been in one of these and this post will help others in that boat, but did you remove the orange o-ring out of the valve body that came off the old filter before you put the new filter in? I have been working on these transmissions since they showed up in the early 90's and have never had a filter fall out. Normally you have to twist and pull them out. It doesn't take a lot of force, but it almost always leaves that o-ring behind. The only times I have seen a filter laying in the pan was if one came to me where someone had put a filter in it with the old o-ring still in the valve body.

For that ring behind the reverse band, I always put it back. That's just me though.

In relation to that, a good tip to know where everything goes is to disassemble everything the first time and lay it on the bench exactly in the order it came out and take a pic to go with the ones you took as it was coming apart. Same goes for the individual assemblies. I used to use labels. I LOVE what smartphones let us do nowadays. I can take literally hundreds of pics of anything as I work. Totally free peace of mind to not have to worry about how to get it back together.

On the lower 1-2 spring, the rate of compression, free length and solid height are as important as the total compression force it takes to get it to it's solid height. Then you have to combine it with the proper top spring for what you are after.

I offer a generic spring setup that most people really like, but also do custom setups with and without tuning to get people where they want to be. It's not as easy as the internet makes it sound sometimes considering how wide of a variety of applications are out there.

It rocks that you have it back together and working. It's usually the little stuff that causes the biggest issues.

Congrats!
D

 

all 100% excellent tips/advice Darrin.
Yes this is my first 4r70w but not my first trans.
Yes fat filter o-ring was removed prior to new filter that's why I was a bit shocked.
As a Tool & Die &Mold maker (20+ yrs) I too am accustom to laying things out in a logical format; however, do to the multiple locations and transfer of components to different holders some things were bound to get mixed up.

THANK YOU SMART PHONES!!!! (pics of ....the chatter clip on the intermediate clutches...etc)

That last lock ring!! yeah it got installed...after of course I tore the tranny down 2 more times trying to determine WHAT THE HELL DID I MISS!!!! It became as obvious as a turd in a punch bowl when I went to the INTERNET and printed off an exploded view from TCCoA web site. I then had to research WHEN it changed and why!!! yay

K=FX (yup may variables there) just threw a quick reference to what WAS measured as well as the result obtained in comparison to NO spring (and of course hoping to get a moderate shift without trying tooo hard )

Again, I can't say enough about the info gathered and offered by some on the internet communities!!!! (the difference between simply knowing what your doing vs offering it to others speaks volumes) I try to offer up my 2c when it can be worth while so maybe just maybe it will help the next group!!

 

So tell me how you want this to shift. I will look at different springs other than the generic setup. You say it was too soft with a small blue 1-2 lower spring? Where did that spring come from?

Does the truck have a stock tune in it?

What was the original spring setup? How many springs where and colors?

Have you drilled any of the holes on the separator plate? Might you if instructed properly? Would you be interested in a plate swap?

I want to get you fixed and running down the road.

D

 

little blue spring was original. 1-2 accumulator oem is green on TOP with big yellow and small blue on bottom. (I ort of j-modded this about 3yrs ago removing BOTH bottom springs and drilling some holes :O )

No special "tune" OEM FORD
35"tire with 4.30 gears..... about a stock 3.73 gear set up

The shift that I HAVE currently is so-so. The light throttle shifts (2700 ish +/-) are a bit snappy(= fine) but the WOT 1-2 is ..... NOT so snappy... 2-3 GREAT. 3-4 Band is noticeable.
something about the 1-2 ....

I'm PONTIAC enthusiast (but Pontiac didn't make trucks ) so I would say th 1-2 shift at WOT is kinda like a "slide.... BUMP" (stock 200r4shift) but only at WOT ????

I have drilled the separator. IIRC 3 holes.. I will need to look through my notes. I recall 1 being an exhaustport, 1 was for forward->Reverse "quickness" ....i'l find my notes so I can give you detailed info. and REMOVE 2-3 ACCUMLATR SPRING! and all springs under 1-2 accumulator.