Going Built
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,053
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From: BC, Canada
So your have head work done? Good choice.
MMR looks like a sure thing. Get one of there oil pumps as well.
TEA are getting my heads. Going with standard size as I already have 24 Manley SS Valves.
MMR looks like a sure thing. Get one of there oil pumps as well.
TEA are getting my heads. Going with standard size as I already have 24 Manley SS Valves.
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: North Carolina
Hi-rev i appreciate the heads up on MMR. I've been looking into the failures as well as the good stuff. I don't plan on them doing the build. Just using them as a vendor for parts.
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: North Carolina
Good god, all this bs over a cam idle video. Thats all it was posted for. A helpful example of how the motor idles with said cam. I suppose we could scrutinize whether or not his car is really white, off white, pearl white, what is really white, and should a Mustang be painted white to begin with.
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Joined: Dec 2009
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From: North Carolina
Man reading this is giving me the itch.
Why did you go "stage 2" heads and not the "3"?
I planned on going with the highest flowing heads and a biggest cam I could and still be practical.
Talking to JDM I would be around 600-650 on pump. That should be good enough on motor. A little direct port dope just in case.
Why did you go "stage 2" heads and not the "3"?
I planned on going with the highest flowing heads and a biggest cam I could and still be practical.
Talking to JDM I would be around 600-650 on pump. That should be good enough on motor. A little direct port dope just in case.
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: North Carolina
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Joined: Dec 2009
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From: North Carolina
4900 RPM seemed so low, I wanted to know more. I spoke with a Whipple technician about this, and they are very tight lipped about tuning specs, as they are proprietary. They will not verify the actual shift point, converter lockup, or whether they take out torque management.
I DID confirm the fact that due to a close relationship with Ford Racing, Ford had a big part in specifying the tuning specs, and you are right, it is to maintain reliability. Because the FRPP version is installed and warranted by dealers, Ford is playing it safe, just as you said. The rev-limit was absolutely not raised, and the fuel cutout is also absolutely not changed.
That means with the Whipple tune, you WILL be short shifting and you will hit the rev-limit before you trap in the 1/4.
Ford conducted R&D to generate the code to provide good performance without an influx of warranty claims. Makes good sense, but will leave you wanting more.
Because we deal in the aftermarket, Whipple obviously suggested a tuner kit. When WE tune, WE take the approach that if you want a blower, you want power, and because it's expensive, we generate a code that will maximize power and lowering E.T. by shifting in the powerband without shocking the drivetrain apart. As IRONS1N said, 5600 is where we want to be, 6000 RPM max, based on the combination.
We know the drivetrain can handle a higher shift point and firmer shifts make transmissions live longer. So our custom tunes vary from economy, to street to strip to race. 87 octane to 110 octane race gas. We take the governor out, and raise the rev-limit to ensure you don't shut down just before you trap, while keeping it limited to ensure you don't blow it up.
Side note- Ford rated the M5OD (The 5-speed in ALL of my F-150s) at 500 FT/LBS. I pushed 542 and I drive HARD.
I DID confirm the fact that due to a close relationship with Ford Racing, Ford had a big part in specifying the tuning specs, and you are right, it is to maintain reliability. Because the FRPP version is installed and warranted by dealers, Ford is playing it safe, just as you said. The rev-limit was absolutely not raised, and the fuel cutout is also absolutely not changed.
That means with the Whipple tune, you WILL be short shifting and you will hit the rev-limit before you trap in the 1/4.
Ford conducted R&D to generate the code to provide good performance without an influx of warranty claims. Makes good sense, but will leave you wanting more.
Because we deal in the aftermarket, Whipple obviously suggested a tuner kit. When WE tune, WE take the approach that if you want a blower, you want power, and because it's expensive, we generate a code that will maximize power and lowering E.T. by shifting in the powerband without shocking the drivetrain apart. As IRONS1N said, 5600 is where we want to be, 6000 RPM max, based on the combination.
We know the drivetrain can handle a higher shift point and firmer shifts make transmissions live longer. So our custom tunes vary from economy, to street to strip to race. 87 octane to 110 octane race gas. We take the governor out, and raise the rev-limit to ensure you don't shut down just before you trap, while keeping it limited to ensure you don't blow it up.
Side note- Ford rated the M5OD (The 5-speed in ALL of my F-150s) at 500 FT/LBS. I pushed 542 and I drive HARD.
On another note you will not hit the rev limiter before you trap even if it was set at 4900rpm. I trap at 5200rpm now with 28" tires and 4.11 gears and a hell of a lot more power then the standard Whipple kit. With stock tires and gears which is what the Whipple tune is set to work around you would never see the redline in 3rd gear till 120mph+.
Last edited by twinskrewd; May 23, 2013 at 12:37 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Concord, NC
I bought "Iron first, lead foot" about the terminator cobra. They do a constant 300 hour wot with the engine on a dyno. I'm assuming the breaking point is how they get the ratings. That's why the motor has Manley forged components. They blew tons of the regular 4vs with the m112 on there up.
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Dec 1997
Posts: 9,417
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From: Windsor,Ontario,Canada
Twin,
If you can find a good local shop to do the machining you will be better set up in case of engine failure. When you are standing in front of the individual who will do the work you can get a better feel for the work they will be doing. As for the internals; can you measure them yourself or will you have it done?
Crash,
I doubt that the M5OD-R2 is rated at 500 ft/lbs. My 4.6 broke 2 of them. My stock 5.4 broke one then the blower took care of the other 2. At 40 mph in 2nd gear if I nail the skinny pedal the tires usually break loose. If they hook the tranny is fubar'd. It will make a God awful noise and parts inside will start to break. I have pics somewhere of sheared 2nd gear teeth.
If you can find a good local shop to do the machining you will be better set up in case of engine failure. When you are standing in front of the individual who will do the work you can get a better feel for the work they will be doing. As for the internals; can you measure them yourself or will you have it done?
Crash,
I doubt that the M5OD-R2 is rated at 500 ft/lbs. My 4.6 broke 2 of them. My stock 5.4 broke one then the blower took care of the other 2. At 40 mph in 2nd gear if I nail the skinny pedal the tires usually break loose. If they hook the tranny is fubar'd. It will make a God awful noise and parts inside will start to break. I have pics somewhere of sheared 2nd gear teeth.
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: North Carolina
Twinscrewd- Whipple told me they do not take out the OEM governor, so on the 06 for example, it would shut down at 95-100 MPH. Ford refused to push the shift points or to take out the governor. The also do not remove torque management. So bolt on a big blower with the Whipple conservative tune, you shut down before you trap.
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Ive seen some from 360-400rwhp 8psi depending on truck and dyno. 10psi is around 420-430rwhp. 12psi 450rwhp, 13-14psi 475rwhp. On stock whipple tune I ran the quarter mile consistently at 14.5 93.3 mph. I had 8 time slips exact same numbers. Truck would hit 96 and rev limit would kick it down to 90 and it'd get to 93.3 at the end. Tune is so bad I could launch exactly the same every time. It either had 1/3 throttle, half or full. No in between. I would launch at 1/3 hit 20mph and floor it.