Personally, I wouldn't run any less than 12awg. Think of it this way, go big or go home. I usually don't bother with "just enough". I want just enough with lots of leftovers. And you don't need to get the super high quality expensive stuff either. Drop by your local Wal*mart and get the spooled 12awg blue wiring there. I'm not sure how much it is, but I know it's not a leg breaker. For subs, I go 8awg, no less in my personal installs. But in general, not smaller than 12awg for subs, not smaller than 16awg for doors, even then I still go with 12awg if I have it available.

 

If you are talking an SPL install, or using a lot of power then you may be able to justify bigger wire. If you are not installing amps near the subs, then again, you can justify big wires.

While using big wires looks impressive, it is a complete waste of money in most situations. And there IS a difference in quality of cable. Cheap crap will oxidize, increasing resistance, and lowering power. So I guess if you do buy cheap crap then you probably do need to get a bigger gauge. If you use a decent oxygen free cable then you can simply use the size needed for the application and not worry about it.

If you are mounting the amp 3 ft from the sub then a 16g wire has a voltage drop of .21, or about 3.6 watts (300w RMS amp, at 4 ohm) Knock that down to 2 ft and you have a 2.6 watt loss.

 

A lot of times I buy the blue 12awg speaker wire from Wal*mart, Scoshe brand. It's oxygen-free and pretty much pure copper, I know it has no aluminum elements in it so expansion is no issue. That is the only wire I buy from there only because it fits the purpose in almost every case, is inexpensive, has an attractive blue shielding with a white line on one wire for polarity, and comes in a 50ft roll or something like that.

Personally, I do larger wire for minimal power loss, second to upgradeability. I don't aim for "just good enough" in my own builds. Of course it's an option, but it's not my option. I just like the convenience of knowing if I ever upgrade an amp or speakers, I won't have to d*ck with wiring. Just like 8awg is good for a 300W amp, but would you really use 8awg instead of 4? Sometimes, the extra money is worth it, especially when it's just a couple of bucks.

 

Glad to hear it is OFC. I know Walmart sells some much cheaper wire.

Cost is not the issue, wasting money is. If it were the difference in getting by and doing it right then you have a point. But in this case it is a waste, especially since he already has some wire. And a 1% difference is negligible, at best.

Minimal power loss is one thing. But on an average run of 12ft to the door (at 4 ohm) then the difference is 3 w (12g to 16g). I guess it matters how much you are worried about. When I was running 200w to mids I did not have an issue.

It is also a whole lot easier to get 2 runs of wire in a molex plug with 16g wire. But I dont run passives either. I am sure a single 12g into a molex is similar to 2 runs of 16g.

Upgradeablability has never been an issue for me either. I plan fairly well, and have never had an issue - even with a 600w RMS active front stage and various sub/amp setups. I normally start out big, and downsize - if anything, not the other way around.

 

That's how I always plan it. For me, the waste is needing bigger later only because I have a bad habit of upgrading whenever I can, listening to different types of setups, different amounts of power, different speaker types and sizes, diversity is my thing. If I do a wire run, I plan on doing it only once. If I decide to be crazy and do a double-component load in each door @ 2ohms, then I know 12awg will be unquestionable over 16awgm, especially if I'm pushing 300+Wrms per door.

 

I use 16 awg to my tweeters which are powered with 100 rms per side, and 12 awg to my mids which are powered with 250 rms per side.

 

But dayum, what speakers are you running that are actually rated @ 250Wrms?

 

Ok, I picked up some 14 gaw, just waiting on the amp now. I have also seen people running the power and signal wires down opposite sides of the truck to reduce noise in the signal wires. How important is this?

 

It's not as important with just a sub amp, but it's still worth the few minutes it takes to insure you don't induce any noise.

 

Rated? Who cares about ratings? Seriously, they are not important if you are paying attention to crossovers and settings. I was running 200w from a DD S4 to ID OEM 6.5 mids, and will soon be setting up my Zapco DC650 to give 180w to my Pio TS-C720 mids Planning on 300w to mids (Peerless SLS or Exodus Anarchy in the front running, with CSS 7"/Adire mids in there too) in the truck, when I get around to starting this project.

None are rated anywhere near those power levels, but no one uses anywhere near their "rms" power on music on a regular basis.

 

Exactly. Ratings means squat. Why do I run more power than rated? Headroom. Sure my amps are capable of smoking my speakers, but I have set everything properly and my amps dont even get warm when playing at extreme volume. But when that one burst of music plays, I have plenty of headroom for clean power and reproduction, avoids ANY clipping or loss of sound quality. Listen to high quality lossless recordings with plenty of headroom and you'll understand. I also run my speakers within a crossover range that they have no trouble reproducing with minimal beaming or stress.

The 250rms was to my ID OEM mids. With the new Seas W18NX mids they only see about 180w per side since they are 8ohm speakers. But they are far more efficient and only rated at 60-80w.

If I ever step up to 3-way front, I would love to try out those Exodus Anarchys with the XBL motor and massive throw. I feel like you are going to need some serious power though, they are pretty inefficient. Even IB in the door.

 

Toying with a pair of Kenwood x4r amps, 300x2 to mids, with bandpass via the built in DSP, along with 75w to a pair of full range drivers picking up down around 2-300hz, and the ~300w to a sub, probably a ported 10 to get some extension and efficiency back. Or another small sub amp to a pair of the GTO 8's. Picked up a Dayton HO15 to see how I like the series, so it is in the running. And keep my jack on the passenger side.

I need to look into the doors to see how easy it will be to fit a deep driver, with a solid mounting...:o

Back on topic:

Power and signal wires dont need to be on opposite sides of the vehicle, but if you can separate them you will be better off. If accessible, opposite sides are a nice way to go.

 

Okay, here is why I was asking what speakers he's running that are rated at 250Wrms.

I am well aware of headroom. It's better to have more available power than not. But the reason why I am asking is because if you are running an amplifier that rated 250Wrms to a speaker rated for just 50Wrms, depending on how you tuned it doesn't mean your speaker is getting 250Wrms. Power is rated to a speaker for thermal and mechanical limits, and if the system is tuned to the limits of the speakers, then...well, you're not exactly running the amount of power that your amplifier says it can produce nominally.

So please, I'm not an idiot. If you can't be a little more direct with the question, then try not answering at all. He mentioned he's running 250Wrms to his mids. If that's what his mids ARE recieving (which now I understand it's not), then I was just wondering what midrange speakers can handle that kind of power continuously without breaking the limits of it's design thermally or mechanically.

 

Well you have to consider the fact that a speaker will react differently to power given its particular enclosure (again, ratings don't mean jack). IB in a door it certainly won't handle as much power as in a sealed enclosure. Additionally, the speaker will react differently given the frequency band it is playing. A 6.5" mid playing from 80-200Hz will handle a lot more power than if it was playing from 80-2000Hz given the same enclosure. This is why power ratings are so subjective and people really shouldn't get so caught up on them as long as you know what you are doing.

I can tell you that switching from 100w rms to the mids to 250w rms on tap to the mids made a huge difference in sound quality (with all other variables constant).

Its going to be a tight fit. My mids are ~3.3" deep and with a 3/4" baffle are very close to the window track. The Anarchys are ~3.7" deep so a larger baffle will be needed. I do believe you could fit them, although with the high excursion you may need to make custom grilles for them as they might come close to hitting the stock grilles on the door. I'll see if I can get some measurements.

You could probably fit the HO10 in .7 ported tuned to 30Hz and have room for your jack. Hope your box building skills are a lot better than mine though. :o

Midranges on the dash I assume? That will make for a very nice high, wide stage. Im still toying with getting my tweeters up on the dash to improve my stage, it has a serious rainbow effect with the tweeters in the stock location in the doors.

 

Not sure what question I asked (other than rhetorical) and not implying you are an idiot.

You will be hard pressed to find anyone that sees anywhere near half "rms" power during normal listening. What you worry about with "headroom" is the crest factor of a song. NPDANG gives a good reasoning, and explanation here: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...wer-usage.html

with some good info in the following discussion.

Dont know where I will put the full range drivers, or how much I want to modify the sail pannels. Going to have to work on this.