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  #181  
Old 11-13-2012, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dirt bike dave
Yeah Jack, let's all fear the private sector, and empower big government to protect us.

I'm telling you that big government is much more deserving of your fear than the private sector. Well, if you value freedom and jobs, anyway.

Not that it matters what I think. America agrees with you, and clearly wants more big government, seeing as it is working out so well.
Great! Let's do away with the DOD, FAA, Police and Fire Departments, Public Education, Forest Service, National Park Service, Game and Fish, FBI, CIA, Department of the Treasury, Department of Transportation, etc., etc. I for one would be happy to never see another "elect me" sign!

But, we live in a Republic. So we have to have government to do the things we as individuals need, but are unable or unwilling to do for ourselves.

Having spent 20 years of my life in the Air Force, I tend to trust the Government more than the private sector. But, I agree that the Government doesn't always get things right.

- Jack
 
  #182  
Old 11-13-2012, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Raoul
Any Ticket with Cain on the top or bottom is doomed.
I'm not talking about sexual transgressions.
You simply cannot not know that China has had nuclear capability for the last five decades and expect to be chosen leader of the Free World.


Let's not forget that Cain was also unaware of the extra seven States.


I guess that not knowing there are only 50 States doesn't make Obama so stupid as to fall under your standard of not voting for someone less intelligent than yourself?
 
  #183  
Old 11-13-2012, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by JackandJanet
Great! Let's do away with the DOD, FAA, Police and Fire Departments, Public Education, Forest Service, National Park Service, Game and Fish, FBI, CIA, Department of the Treasury, Department of Transportation, etc., etc.
And again with the overly dramatic, all or nothing, black and white analysis. Can't remember any Republicans calling for those things, but whatever. If it makes us look more evil and less logical in your eyes, go ahead and make stuff up. We are used to it from the libs. We usually get treated a little better by 'fiscal conservatives' such as yourself, ha ha.

Newsflash: Republicans are not in favor of anarchy and no government.

We'd appreciate it if the government could try and live within the boundaries and spirit of our Constitution, but that ship has sailed. I guess now we are all about trying to slow the decline of the USA, but it appears our cause faces many headwinds, foreign and domestic.

Oh, and if you think the folks in big government, on average, are as honorable as those you served with, you need to open your eyes.

FWIW, I was born on an Air Force Base and my parents met when my dad was stationed at Davis Monthan in the late 50's, and I lived in Tucson as a child from '63 to '71. My dad is probably rolling in his grave with how much big government we have now.
 
  #184  
Old 11-13-2012, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by JackandJanet
Having spent 20 years of my life in the Air Force, I tend to trust the Government more than the private sector. But, I agree that the Government doesn't always get things right.
You spent 20 years in the USAF and you still trust government to do things correctly? I was raised around the AF (the old man retired from it and dragged me around the world) and served a total of 11 years both active and active reserve. Now I work the civilian side of the federal government. In total I have over 20 years of government service. I wouldn't trust the US government to wipe my butt without screwing it up. In the 70's the AF decided alcohol consumption was bad, so they adjusted their definition of an alcoholic so if you drank alcohol you were an alcoholic (this is from a retired O-6 AF doctor). I personally read the questionnaire used to determine if a person is an alcoholic. A yes answer to more than three questions meant you were alcohol dependent. The problem is there were about three or four different question asked 25-30 different ways. I personally have been diagnosed with an illness, and given medications that took care of the problem, but my wife who saw doctors in a different part of the same hospital (I saw flight medicine she saw family practice) left the doctors stumped. She had the same thing I did. I personally saw the Navy transport oil cleanup boats to my area. 8 of these boats sat on in the local port for three weeks before they were put to use. I personally saw a 747 capable of spraying chemicals on the oil the help break it up sit on a tarmac waiting for the government to put it to use. I personally have seen managers change the entire schedule for an office in an attempt to get back at workers who resisted his ridiculous requirements at a cost of over 500k per year. I can go on and on, but won't waste the bandwidth.
 
  #185  
Old 11-13-2012, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Odin's Wrath
Let's not forget that Cain was also unaware of the extra seven States.


I guess that not knowing there are only 50 States doesn't make Obama so stupid as to fall under your standard of not voting for someone less intelligent than yourself?
I was willing to risk that at some time in the past, the former president of the Harvard Law Review indeed knew how many States there were.

But Cains mistake begs the question, who was he running around with?
Surely, in the last 50 years he must have come out of a movie and said,
"Man, that Jean Claude Van Dam can kick! And can you imagine if China ever did really go nuclear, Wow!"

" uh...Herman,... China IS a nuclear superpower."

"WTF? Seriously? When did that happen?"

BUT NOOOO!!!!! That conversation never took place! Or so we are led to believe!
Have it your way.
Put together your Dream Ticket, Cain / Palin.
Cain is sure China is a continent and Palin is convinced Africa is a country.
 
  #186  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JackandJanet
Great! Let's do away with the DOD, FAA, Police and Fire Departments, Public Education, Forest Service, National Park Service, Game and Fish, FBI, CIA, Department of the Treasury, Department of Transportation, etc., etc. I for one would be happy to never see another "elect me" sign!

But, we live in a Republic. So we have to have government to do the things we as individuals need, but are unable or unwilling to do for ourselves.

Having spent 20 years of my life in the Air Force, I tend to trust the Government more than the private sector. But, I agree that the Government doesn't always get things right.

- Jack
Most of those could certainly be pared back. There is a huge difference in what most of those were at their creation and what they are now. There is a great difference in a government that takes care of essential needs and one that takes care of every need. Our society has become one that looks to the government rather than self reliance.
 
  #187  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Raoul
I was willing to risk that at some time in the past, the former president of the Harvard Law Review indeed knew how many States there were.
It would be nice to read some of his writings from his time as Editor of the Harvard Law Review, so we could judge for ourselves.

Perhaps some of his other papers in law school and as an undergrad would be illuminating to us lesser lights.

Back in the 19th and 20th centuries, candidates with academic credentials could produce a body of work.

Not so with Obama. His papers are off limits.

Just why do you think that is? Please dazzle me with a theory that would be far beyond a lesser person such as Herman Cain.
 
  #188  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by JackandJanet
Great! Let's do away with the DOD, FAA, Police and Fire Departments, Public Education, Forest Service, National Park Service, Game and Fish, FBI, CIA, Department of the Treasury, Department of Transportation, etc., etc. I for one would be happy to never see another "elect me" sign!

But, we live in a Republic. So we have to have government to do the things we as individuals need, but are unable or unwilling to do for ourselves.

Having spent 20 years of my life in the Air Force, I tend to trust the Government more than the private sector. But, I agree that the Government doesn't always get things right.

- Jack
Why is it that you always go from one extreme to the other? You're like a light switch. No one wants to eliminate all regulations, but it doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize that our economy is over-regulated.

You can't have job growth with onerous taxes and regulations on businesses. The current state of our economy proves this.
 
  #189  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by JackandJanet
...<snip>... Steve, I read the GOP mantra of "Overturn Obamacare" as doing away with "Universal Healthcare". I'm not hearing this from the MSM, but from GOP politicians.

And, I DO think some folks with "runny noses" go to emergency rooms and are treated. ...<snip>...
- Jack
Can you define "Universal Healthcare" ?

Some do go to the ER for a runny nose and get treated, those with insurance.
Mine was the example based upon the "Ronnie time frame" ruling on not turning away non insured people with life critical cases.

The Mrs' insurance does not cover clinics of any kind.
If she has a non doctors hours issue, she has to use the ER, even if that clinic is owned and operated by the hospital that she is going to.

The other case, that is the county / public hospital, like a Cook County Hospital.

Originally Posted by JackandJanet
Great! Let's do away with the DOD, FAA, Police and Fire Departments, Public Education, Forest Service, National Park Service, Game and Fish, FBI, CIA, Department of the Treasury, Department of Transportation, etc., etc. I for one would be happy to never see another "elect me" sign! ....<snip>....
OK, let's just go overboard.
Is this another one of the "reading the GOP mantra " ?

Why won't the Democrats suggest the same budget from the Clinton years with his tax rates ?
- I keep hearing how there was a surplus, why not follow the same tax rates and budget line items ?
If it really was a result of Clinton raising taxes then the same should happen again..

Originally Posted by JackandJanet
....<snip>....Having spent 20 years of my life in the Air Force, I tend to trust the Government more than the private sector. But, I agree that the Government doesn't always get things right.

- Jack
Wow, this is a first for this opinion for me.

Let's see "Incorrect FDA list causes more confusion over meningitis scare "

This is something that when they get it wrong, it impacts businesses. This will have a long term impact on those businesses, due to the masses taking the MSM as face value of reporting facts.
Sure we will never know the extent of this impact, as the MSM is going to move on to the next sound bite.

Few years back ( 2003 time frame ?? ) the FDA was being investigated.
Think it was for "rubber stamping" things that were not right ( meat ? )
 
  #190  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:38 PM
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Dirt Bike - Of course I was being "extreme". But seriously, when you say, "Big government is bad", or words to that effect, where do you draw the line? I proposed something I thought was very reasonable in an earlier post" Eliminate the Department of Homeland Security. It was a knee-jerk reaction to an attack, and I don't feel it was properly thought out.

And I know I don't really want to trust the well-being of our Country to corporations like Enron, Countrywide, BP, and so on.

I think the last President who understood the Constitution was Dwight Eisenhower. And he didn't get it ALL right.

Do I see my time in the Air Force through rose colored glasses? Not really. There were many policies I didn't like, and I had a Commander once who was an absolute tool. But, I had several Commanders I would have followed into hell.

Are there private corporations that are honorable? Of course there are. NOTHING in life is "black and white". It's interesting, liberals see conservatives as viewing things in black and white terms, and I guess the reverse is also true.

Isn't the truth somewhere in between?

- Jack
 
  #191  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by wittom
...<snip>... It's pretty amazing what a well oiled propaganda machine can do.
If you are from Chicago, not really.

Been living this my whole life. People that move here are usually shocked for about 15 months about the corruption and back office workings going on.

At 18 months of being here, they get used to it.
 
  #192  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:59 PM
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Steve, I said the Government doesn't always get things right. And, maybe they get things wrong more often than is reasonable, I know some people feel that way.

However, the private sector in general works to satisfy stockholders. If they're happy, the company's board members are happy. As long as the company is profitable, it really doesn't matter who gets hurt, and that attitude can persist as long as it doesn't cost too much when someone DOES get hurt. The company works for the company, not the consumer.

The Government supposedly works for the welfare of the people - a very different concept. Government answers to the people and the people can replace the Government using the power of their vote when they feel they are being ill-served. We saw that happen in 2008 and again in 2010. None of this guarantees that individual members of government will be altruistic, intelligent, or even honorable. But, the motivation is at least theoretically more on the side of the "governed", in my opinion.

- Jack
 
  #193  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by JackandJanet
...<snip>...
And I know I don't really want to trust the well-being of our Country to corporations like Enron, Countrywide, BP, and so on.
...<snip>...
Who suggested this ?
I know the GOP did not suggest letting Enron run social Security, nor letting BP run Medicare ( even though they could not do any worse ).

How about GE ?
Think Jack Welch could have straightened up Medicare ? I do.

Nice of you to toss Countrywide in there.
When did they start to have problems the 1st time ? At the introduction of Clinton's affordable home act via the $1B in ( somehow ) non tax payer money that he funded HUD with. Same incident that fired the starting gun for the housing bubble.
Now that some Atty general smells something not right, they are going after the companies that the govt strong armed them into buying these distressed banks.
JP Morgan has the same thing going on with NY.

Guess what is going to happen if there is a next time ?
- The govt is going to be left holding the bag. JP Morgan is not going to help them out with the next bear stearns or Washington Mutal.
- They don't have the FDIC to help strong arm them this time with the new requirements on them ( stronger than European bank rules ).
- Loose cannon Atty general making a name for themselves just shot the govt in the foot.

thank you for bringing up the housing bubble, caused by the govt trying to take the well-being of our Country into consideration.

Originally Posted by JackandJanet
...<snip>...

However, the private sector in general works to satisfy stockholders. If they're happy, the company's board members are happy. As long as the company is profitable, it really doesn't matter who gets hurt, and that attitude can persist as long as it doesn't cost too much when someone DOES get hurt. The company works for the company, not the consumer....<snip>...
nobody said other wise, but then again companies do not get to take money from the public by threat of jail either.
Don't like what BoA or BP is doing, don't buy their product. Can't do that with the govt, no competition so no reason to do things better.


Originally Posted by JackandJanet
...<snip>...The Government supposedly works for the welfare of the people - a very different concept. Government answers to the people and the people can replace the Government using the power of their vote when they feel they are being ill-served. We saw that happen in 2008 and again in 2010. None of this guarantees that individual members of government will be altruistic, intelligent, or even honorable. But, the motivation is at least theoretically more on the side of the "governed", in my opinion.

- Jack
True we can try to replace them. If they are not replaced ( same as if the board of directors at BP does not change ) you have no choice but to continue to purchase the product they offer.

You trust the owner of the captive market segment ( no competition ) more than you trust someone that the population ( voting age or not, legal citizen or not ) has the collective ability to put out of business.
 

Last edited by SSCULLY; 11-13-2012 at 08:05 PM.
  #194  
Old 11-13-2012, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by JackandJanet
Dirt Bike - Of course I was being "extreme". But seriously, when you say, "Big government is bad", or words to that effect, where do you draw the line? I proposed something I thought was very reasonable in an earlier post" Eliminate the Department of Homeland Security. It was a knee-jerk reaction to an attack, and I don't feel it was properly thought out.
You do realize every department in Homeland Security with the exception of TSA was already in existence prior to Homeland Security being formed, right?

Let's see we can trust a government that has so many different motives as to be unreliable. You have local supervisors trying to build their little fiefdoms to help get them promoted all the way up to the political appointees that was working to get their next big job and pay check. With the government there is no one single motivator so you can't predict what government is going to do. The other thing to consider you can trust that the government is going to keep it's altruistic approach. What happens if the person running the program decides they are going to help blacks more than whites or whites more than blacks for not other reason than that is what they want to do? What if they decide you are an enemy against them? The government has the power to take your life with little to no recourse.

A private company is concerned about the bottom line. That's it. That is predictable. A private company with a wise CEO understands that it can not run roughshod over everything and everyone. As long as there are competitors there is a control mechanism that will force bad companies out of business. Also if a private company decides it doesn't like you there isn't much it can do about it.
 
  #195  
Old 11-13-2012, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by dirt bike dave
... His papers are off limits.

Just why do you think that is? Please dazzle me with a theory that would be far beyond a lesser person such as Herman Cain.
Everything will be made available to you after he leaves Office at his Presidential Library, which as you know will be located in his home State of Hawaii



.......or it could be in Kenya, I'm not for sure on that.
 


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