Rear diff imploded today...
#46
12-15-2010, 04:25 AM
the 9.75 is fords "dana 60" axle. it can handle a lot more then the 10 bolt 8.8. what do you mean weld the axle tubes? ive herd of welding the spiders like to get a full spool effect. that just adds traction and will screw up our new 35s. i wouldn't do it. if i were you go to a junk yard. pull out the rear axle of an expedition. make sure its the 9.75. your going to have to do some modding to allow the leafs to fit properly but then you have disc breaks. ive seen it done here. theres a yard that specializes in ford and honda parts. so they always sell the expedition rear ends.
Warn use to make a full float kit for the 8.8 and discontinued it several years ago.
don't kno about a kit for the 8.8 tho.
#47
12-15-2010, 06:48 PM
Senior Member
We used to weld the tubes all the way around to the center section with a nickle alloy rod on Dana 60s and GM 12 bolts in some muscle cars. The 12 bolt rears were weaker ... sometimes we used them for expediency in a GTO or Chevelle because of the mounts.
Stock, the tubes are pressed in and retained by big spots of weld through two big holes in the cast center section on each side. First time you see a 12 second car twist a center loose on the start line, it makes sense and that was 30 or more years ago with 7 or 8 " slicks and ladder bars .... no nitrous.
I imagine the stresses are greater with new drag radials and deeper gears and nitrous so popular today ..... even in those old muscle cars that have new lives. Never saw much problem with the Ford 9" with the big "N" on the hogshead and even knew one guiy who ran 12s in a RoadRunner with Chrysler's 8.75 rear. Now you can buy these axles with the mounts welded on already. If I had a Chevelle or GTO now, it'ld have a 9" Ford with that big "N" on the center sections. I like the idea of being able to keep extras on hand.
Stock, the tubes are pressed in and retained by big spots of weld through two big holes in the cast center section on each side. First time you see a 12 second car twist a center loose on the start line, it makes sense and that was 30 or more years ago with 7 or 8 " slicks and ladder bars .... no nitrous.
I imagine the stresses are greater with new drag radials and deeper gears and nitrous so popular today ..... even in those old muscle cars that have new lives. Never saw much problem with the Ford 9" with the big "N" on the hogshead and even knew one guiy who ran 12s in a RoadRunner with Chrysler's 8.75 rear. Now you can buy these axles with the mounts welded on already. If I had a Chevelle or GTO now, it'ld have a 9" Ford with that big "N" on the center sections. I like the idea of being able to keep extras on hand.
#48
12-15-2010, 07:20 PM
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One of the coupla weak points in the 8.8 is the tubes. With big tires, low gears and lots of torque, the axle tubes can break their plug welds and spin the tubes in the housing. Just a few spot welds (nickel rod as mentioned above) around the area where the tube enters the housing, along with the original plug weld, is usually enough. Ford tends to go light on the tube material as well and they are commonly a minimum of 0.180" wall HREW (Hot Rolled Electric Welded) tube up to a max (that I have seen or heard of) 0.25" wall, though they do use 3 or 3.25" diameter, which also adds material for beef. Every F-150 I've seen has the 0.25" wall tubes. My info goes up to about the mid-2000s, so I don't know if any changes have been made since about '05. My background is in four-wheeling, where I have seen the plug welds broken by rockcrawlers running big, sticky rubber with low gears.
Also, there is NO advantage in strength with c-clip eliminators. They are used only to meet NHRA rules so that if an axle breaks, the wheel won't fly off into the crowd. The rear disc brakes essentially do the same thing. The rotor and caliper won't allow the axle to come out if the axle breaks or the pinion shaft falls out and releases the c-clips. I recall being told by a Warn engineer, back when they were begining to offer their axles in the '90s, that is took something like 60 tons of force to break the c-clip button off the end of an axle. The more likely way they come loose is when the shaft breaks or the spider pin releases them.
Also, there is NO advantage in strength with c-clip eliminators. They are used only to meet NHRA rules so that if an axle breaks, the wheel won't fly off into the crowd. The rear disc brakes essentially do the same thing. The rotor and caliper won't allow the axle to come out if the axle breaks or the pinion shaft falls out and releases the c-clips. I recall being told by a Warn engineer, back when they were begining to offer their axles in the '90s, that is took something like 60 tons of force to break the c-clip button off the end of an axle. The more likely way they come loose is when the shaft breaks or the spider pin releases them.
#50
12-15-2010, 10:12 PM
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We used to weld the tubes all the way around to the center section with a nickle alloy rod on Dana 60s and GM 12 bolts in some muscle cars. The 12 bolt rears were weaker ... sometimes we used them for expediency in a GTO or Chevelle because of the mounts.
Stock, the tubes are pressed in and retained by big spots of weld through two big holes in the cast center section on each side. First time you see a 12 second car twist a center loose on the start line, it makes sense and that was 30 or more years ago with 7 or 8 " slicks and ladder bars .... no nitrous.
I imagine the stresses are greater with new drag radials and deeper gears and nitrous so popular today ..... even in those old muscle cars that have new lives. Never saw much problem with the Ford 9" with the big "N" on the hogshead and even knew one guiy who ran 12s in a RoadRunner with Chrysler's 8.75 rear. Now you can buy these axles with the mounts welded on already. If I had a Chevelle or GTO now, it'ld have a 9" Ford with that big "N" on the center sections. I like the idea of being able to keep extras on hand.
Stock, the tubes are pressed in and retained by big spots of weld through two big holes in the cast center section on each side. First time you see a 12 second car twist a center loose on the start line, it makes sense and that was 30 or more years ago with 7 or 8 " slicks and ladder bars .... no nitrous.
I imagine the stresses are greater with new drag radials and deeper gears and nitrous so popular today ..... even in those old muscle cars that have new lives. Never saw much problem with the Ford 9" with the big "N" on the hogshead and even knew one guiy who ran 12s in a RoadRunner with Chrysler's 8.75 rear. Now you can buy these axles with the mounts welded on already. If I had a Chevelle or GTO now, it'ld have a 9" Ford with that big "N" on the center sections. I like the idea of being able to keep extras on hand.
#51
12-15-2010, 10:20 PM
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One of the coupla weak points in the 8.8 is the tubes. With big tires, low gears and lots of torque, the axle tubes can break their plug welds and spin the tubes in the housing. Just a few spot welds (nickel rod as mentioned above) around the area where the tube enters the housing, along with the original plug weld, is usually enough. Ford tends to go light on the tube material as well and they are commonly a minimum of 0.180" wall HREW (Hot Rolled Electric Welded) tube up to a max (that I have seen or heard of) 0.25" wall, though they do use 3 or 3.25" diameter, which also adds material for beef. Every F-150 I've seen has the 0.25" wall tubes. My info goes up to about the mid-2000s, so I don't know if any changes have been made since about '05. My background is in four-wheeling, where I have seen the plug welds broken by rockcrawlers running big, sticky rubber with low gears.
Also, there is NO advantage in strength with c-clip eliminators. They are used only to meet NHRA rules so that if an axle breaks, the wheel won't fly off into the crowd. The rear disc brakes essentially do the same thing. The rotor and caliper won't allow the axle to come out if the axle breaks or the pinion shaft falls out and releases the c-clips. I recall being told by a Warn engineer, back when they were begining to offer their axles in the '90s, that is took something like 60 tons of force to break the c-clip button off the end of an axle. The more likely way they come loose is when the shaft breaks or the spider pin releases them.
Also, there is NO advantage in strength with c-clip eliminators. They are used only to meet NHRA rules so that if an axle breaks, the wheel won't fly off into the crowd. The rear disc brakes essentially do the same thing. The rotor and caliper won't allow the axle to come out if the axle breaks or the pinion shaft falls out and releases the c-clips. I recall being told by a Warn engineer, back when they were begining to offer their axles in the '90s, that is took something like 60 tons of force to break the c-clip button off the end of an axle. The more likely way they come loose is when the shaft breaks or the spider pin releases them.
Keep it comin.. lol
#52
12-15-2010, 10:22 PM
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#54
12-16-2010, 02:18 AM
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Why? What ya thinkin?
I trust them i kno they are particular and they did it for 500 bucks for me so i couldn't resist(Didn't wanna resist). Thought it wasn't to bad a deal. Got allthe install stuff for under 500 so not bad. I did it under a 1000. Just where i was rolling back and pulled it down into drive and tromped on it pretty good. Like tbear said, "That was the staw that broke the camels back." so to speak.
I trust them i kno they are particular and they did it for 500 bucks for me so i couldn't resist(Didn't wanna resist). Thought it wasn't to bad a deal. Got allthe install stuff for under 500 so not bad. I did it under a 1000. Just where i was rolling back and pulled it down into drive and tromped on it pretty good. Like tbear said, "That was the staw that broke the camels back." so to speak.
Last edited by offroadn'98; 12-16-2010 at 03:48 AM.
#55
12-16-2010, 11:42 AM
well i havent gotten my gears installed yet, its just that when i was looking for a shop, they would give a year warranty on their work even though i brought the gears to them. so if something did break, i would have to buy the pinion but they would install it for free.
what gear brand are you running?
what gear brand are you running?
#56
12-16-2010, 12:26 PM
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#58
12-17-2010, 12:14 AM
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The symptoms offroadn'98 talked about leading up to it, the jumping or jerking .... I think it was something I've talked about before, something I went through back in the '70s with my Swinger 340.
I think he's been spinmning rear wheels and with added stress imposed upon the spider gears by 4.88s multiplying torque on one side and those big tires on the other ...
... lots of pressure there, it likely wouldn't take a long burnout ...
... I think the cross shaft seized to a spider gear and twisted and sheared the retainer bolt and then after it cooled off that now unrestrained cross shaft was being slung out the case part way and hitting the pinion gear as it came over the top and the jumping he felt was that cross shaft hitting the pinion gear and getting knocked violently back into the case ..... and that the implosion was the result of "the straw breaking the camel's back".
The jerk where it was sticking out at low speed stopping the truck, backing up and then hitting it hard ...
... parts busted.
I think he's been spinmning rear wheels and with added stress imposed upon the spider gears by 4.88s multiplying torque on one side and those big tires on the other ...
... lots of pressure there, it likely wouldn't take a long burnout ...
... I think the cross shaft seized to a spider gear and twisted and sheared the retainer bolt and then after it cooled off that now unrestrained cross shaft was being slung out the case part way and hitting the pinion gear as it came over the top and the jumping he felt was that cross shaft hitting the pinion gear and getting knocked violently back into the case ..... and that the implosion was the result of "the straw breaking the camel's back".
The jerk where it was sticking out at low speed stopping the truck, backing up and then hitting it hard ...
... parts busted.
I thought bc its just a 220hp 4six with lt's cai, and a programmer that i didn't have the power to tear anything up even with the gears. This is a good learning experience. I think from now on i'll be more aware of the limitations if i don't yet have all the supporting mods for something i've done to the truck(another mod).
#60
01-03-2011, 01:29 PM
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The locker is pretty sweet. Puts the torque down ALOT better. Still haven't raised too much hell with it tho..Still wanna do the v10 but after thinkin about..just too much to have to do for the truck to handle the v10 prolly no headers. Just gonna do a 5.4, preferably a 99+, but it doesn't rly matter. More potential in the end if i got a non pi 5four tho. Anyway ill do LT's on the install and gotts intake it should run pretty good with 4.88's. You'll have to let me kno how your trucks runs after your gear install.