[QUOTE=tallimeca]
Is there any way to take that Magnum that was on Robs truck and put it on another truck that is running a ported eaton and see what the difference was. Wouldn't that give you an idea if it's the blower or the motor???
QUOTE]

Not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying something is wrong with Rob's motor?

By the way, who ported that Eaton that Sal posted?
That thing looks terrible

 

Suavy,

Your ported heads will allow you to flow much more air than Rob, Your results should be very impressive. After reading Robs, Sals and Charles post regarding Valve springs, how do you think your will hold up?

Also, I always get the Voicemail when I call you @ work.

 

1. Valve springs need to be tried (and sounds like that's in the pipeline).
2. People shoudn't post things like the MP is a waste of money and jump to conclusions before the experiment is finished.
3. If somebody is expecting Kenne bell results out of the MP, then they have unrealistic expectations. They should just buy the KB and be done with it.
4. If valve springs don't make the MP wake up, then I will base my own conclusion that on a stock headed/cammed motor, it's probably not worth the money on a stock longblock.
5. If you build the motor to shift at 6k+ RPM's (back to ported heads & cams) the MP will probably run circles around the ported Eaton.

No need to slam the MP, but this thread is very educational for anybody expecting KB results on a stock longblock.

 

Mark, I think I'm going to fair well out of this whole thing, you have seen first hand my set up and the little extras I have done.

I respect what Rob and Sal have done because I have been in management & and a manufacture engineer for several years. I understand what controlled studies are all about.

Is there a way to build a better mousetrap, always!
However, I do think that we still need to do some more testing before we call this a lost.
In my opinion I think that is the way people are preserving this testing; just read the posts. People are saying they are going to turn away from MP based on this info alone.

I will be praying for good results and for support of a good man and his product.

Always I just was sticking up for a friend!
Mark, you have been to my house and know what kind of person I am?

Peace,

Suavy

Mark, as far as the answering machine goes I know the feeling me and your are friends!

 

The valve springs aren't made by magnum..............

Maybe. That's why i'm saying if there's another ported eaton truck in the area of Sal's shop, why not dyno it, then throw Rob's blower on it and see what happens.

If the results are positive, meaning the magnum outperformed the port.........then we have a better idea that IT IS Rob's motor.

If we see similar results as to what Rob saw.......then it's the blower.

Seems cut and dry.

Tell you what. I've got a Wasp Ported Eaton and few vacation days in august. I'd be willing to be the test mule only if the Magnum outperforms my port job..........then I get to Keep it

 

Rob,
The bottom of your engine is strong to support the power
But, the bottom end doesn't flow the air, the top end does! the more air it flows, the more power it makes!

Your top end is basically stock!

See my post regarding your eaton making 17-19 #'s of boost!
That's not impressive, boost is a measure of back pressure, the bottle neck is still in the top end of your motor!
Sal can only get so much power out of your truck given the restrictions.

JJ is running 10's on 15# of boost, no nitrous. How? very little restriction in the flow of air through the engine.

You know what needs to be done. Just do it.

 

There is, of course, nothing special about MP boost. The engine doesn't know if 22 PISG comes from a MP, a turbo, or a leaf blower.

So this valve spring issue -- if it exists -- must be applicable to all forced induction on the 5.4. I'm happy that MP is investigating this issue, but it would not explain why blower X makes power at 22 PSIG, but blower Y does not.

 

People ARE NOT expecting KB results out of the Magnum Powers. They ARE expecting better than Ported Eaton results. Come on man!! It's $1200 vs $400. Which one do you think should make more power? Which one do you think should run better 1/4 mile times? Which one would you chose?

Damn, I don't mean to be so blunt. I certainly don't mean to bad mouth MP. I don't know Charles. From what I read he is a stand-up guy. He could be ducking this whole conversation. But he's not. He's participating in this thread, and trying to get things worked out. I give him a lot of credit. I hope Rob/Sal change valve springs and the Mag shows it's true colors.

All im saying is, you can't blame people for jumping to conclusion's.

 

where the hell are you getting this $400 from?
Go to a ford dealership and order an Eaton, then send it to whoever to get ported. Compare that price to the MP!

WHen you compare apples to apples you don't jump to conclusions!

What I think people forget is that every piece is a piece of a larger puzzle! increase the flow throughout the top end of the engine and the power will follow. It's not that difficult to understand. It's been the same way for 50 years! It's a frickin air pump!

The MP can't reach it's full potential when people do it... shall I say it.... half-a$$!

I probably just dug a deep hole, but it needs to be said! I commend you Rob on trying to do this on a budget, but you get what you pay for. I know you got a deal on a lot of your parts and tuning, but without all the pieces, you don't have a completed puzzle!


Caveat, I don't have the time, ambition, or money to undertake in a built engine right now. Knowing my cheap a$$, I doubt I'll go any further than where I'm at right now.

 

Well the TEMPERATURE of that 22PSIG plays an important role in HP. Density is a good thing Not ribbing you, just saying that If one blower can produce a colder intake charge than the other at the same pressure, that blower should produce more HP. Correct me if I'm wrong..

It's still a moot point to me. If CHarles is talkign about Valve Float at higher boost, he may be on to something. Of course, of youc an spin a ported Eaton to 20 pounds and keep reasonable IAT temps, I'm soooo going that route. Will we have to change "The Heaton" name to "Beaton" as it beats on the Magnum at moderate boost levels?

Time will tell. Birthday in 2 weeks... a whopping Port Job sounds like something my Girl should give me...I mean get for me. Maybe I'll tell her in a muddles voice "Baby, I know what I want for my Birthday. I want a nice PJ", and then see how many teeth I can pick up off the ground in one try.

 

[QUOTE=l-menace]where the hell are you getting this $400 from?
Go to a ford dealership and order an Eaton, then send it to whoever to get ported. Compare that price to the MP!

Menace, menace, menace. Since 1999 EVERY single Lightning came with a Pressure-charged. Eaton Corporation Generation IV Roots-type supercharger, water-to-air intercooler. You take it off, and along with $400, you send it to the "porter" of your choice.

QUOTE]

 

 

So he could have went ported heads, cams, and MP ($3500+) or a KB for $3000. "Doing it right" seems to go against where the MP was originally positioned. Using your logic, "Doing it right" means Rob should have done a KB anyway since he could have made his HP goals without heads and cams.

The MP was positioned as a economical step. Rob was working with a budget. I'm sure Sal cut him a break, but if he paid normal price for all those dyno sessions - the KB would have been cheaper. I just wish Whipple was out and available since the KB is hit or miss reliable it seems.

 

There's a limit to how efficiently you can move air into then back out of a case with those Eaton rotors. The design of the MP allows for less interference at higher RPMs, due to the way it flows INTO the case. Unfortunately, there is only so much room to work on the inlet of a stock Eaton case, and Stiegemeier has that pretty much nailed down.

On the outlet side, opening it up allows for more of the air to pass over the intercooler, as well as use the rotors more efficiently. The MP case does it "OK", a ported Eaton case is more efficient at allowing the quickly spun air to exit.

The KB does it more efficiently than the Eaton design, as it's a twin screw design. Lower heat is the result, as it does not need to be spun as fast. Lower "boost" is seen, which may account for the non-issue with valve springs.


On to the issue of dyno #'s. Who cares. It's a great baseline to tune against, but the real tale is on the road. Dyno #'s CAN BE ALTERED - it's not hard to change the calibration on the DynoJets to "show" higher numbers. Are we all out to be on "Team Dyno Queen"? Sure there's bragging rights, but again, the true showing is when you take it to the track, and see those ETs and trap speeds. That'll show you how much power you're REALLY making.

 

You just say that because your numbers are always lower...