I going to make this last comment and then jump out I feel bad now for where this whole thing went.

When Charles started this project 2 years ago I feel there was a big difference in the caliber of port jobs that were out there. The one guy that did Rob's blower is excellent at what he does and like any thing else with time has perfected his craft.

Rob, you’re a good man and I know all you want to do is build a fast reliable daily driver and no one can nor should fault you for that.

Good luck amigo and I apologize for all the stuff that is being said about your engine. The same goes for you Sal, you have never been nothing but helpful to me and my intent was never to slam or discredit you. I only wanted to stick up for Charles.

Tim Skelton, you one heck of a lawyer you proved that in the council you gave me when my engine failed. However, reading you banter I wanted to call my Famous attorney friend from Houston and have him prepare my rebuttal. I bet you that would have blow your mind?

God Bless,

Jeronimo (Suavy)

 

With a bit of time on my hands, I will be studying these #s in greater detail, but for now a simple observation and a question. On the hp graph it looks like the 2 lines are equal from 4300 rpm up to about 4500 where the MP begins to make more power.
For most of us shifting about 5500 rpm what does rpm drop to?
Another ? I have is are these two hp curves optimized in timing slope for each blower or are they equal tunes?
And one more ? on the af ratio observations made. Is it possible the leaner condition with the port is due to fuel/mixture escaping thru the valves? It seems likely to me.
I can live with the MP being less effective than previously touted, but I wish I had confidence in the original valvetrain after the repeated abuses Rob had always described in his posts over the last few years.(Although I have only registered to this forum in late 03 I have read every thread ever posted here.)
All honest info helps us all learn!
Jim

 

a) it's not hard when you have the software, hardware, and basic understanding of a gasoline engine, and how forced induction affects it in our application. It's when you run into issues when you go by the book and there are still problems. Like problems i had on my truck. I was running tunes within paremeters everyone else with my combos was running and i was running a full point richer on a/f .......why? No real explanation. Compensated the tunes to fix it but took some effort.

b)I don't think any tuner has said that they were the only one that can tune for a Magnum.....unless I missed a post somewhere. This reflects back to point A.

This has been a problem on the Magnums from what I read for sure. I'm just wondering if any of the Tuners have some real educated guesses as to why this is. Speculation is building and obviously there has been plenty of testing. I'm really wondering if there are individual differences in the blowers. Maybe pulling the eaton rotors and sticking them in, there are tolerance issues...........too much gap........not enough. That's why I said I'd be curious to take the Magnum that was on Rob's truck and take another ported eaton truck and do a before and after. I think something like that would show something????

This happens alot with any kind of mechanical buisness. I've had equipment brought to me that has been other shops two and three times that the people were plenty qualified to repair, but just couldn't get it right. I'm sure stuff we've worked on at one time or another has been brought to another shop. Sometimes people are dedicated to their tuner/repair shop, but it comes a time when you have to think if they can't fix it, maybe someone else has seen this problem and knows what it is. It happens.

I can't see JDM taking it personal. I mean he ended up straightening out the motor nightmare on SVTF150's truck after another shop couldn't, or wouldn't or whatever actually happened. I know of a local truck that wasn't happy with the tune he got from Sal and tried a different route and was happy. It's not that Sal wasn't capable , but maybe he wanted a real aggressive tune that was dangerous and Sal wouldn't give it to him for fear he may damage the vehicle. I give Sal credit if that would be the case but I don't know the real story. Bottom line is you can't take it personal.

I would think maybe where there are a couple tuners selling the magnum , they may want to put their heads together and come up with a solution if they want to consider selling these things successfully. What's the point if one figures out a problem and doesn't want to share it. Yeah, people may go to them to get it fixed but the main vendor themselves may not be happy because one of their dealers is still having trouble.

I had considered the magnum, saw plenty of evidence that it makes power, at least on a stock block. I'm not saying I would NEVER buy one but I'd like to know what is going on and how some trucks seem to accept the magnum and some reject it as far as making power. What can be linked together? Are there any specified clearances on the casing and rotor packs from Magnum??? Has anyone taken measurments on the trucks that aren't making better power??

 

Suavy, I am sorry for getting snappy :o
You and Me, Charles, and the Rest, have ALWAYS been buddys,
and I want it to stay that way.

I cant tell you how sorry I am for HAVING to do this,
but as it turns out, FOR NOW this is a better set up for me.
"BUT" as I continue to say, I would love to be the tester of the
Spring Mod and get the Mag back on to see the results...
NOTHING can replace the wonderful sound of that Mag

Top Gun
Yes they were IDENTICLE tunes, 16 degrees to be exact
As said the first run showed the Eaton running lean on the Mag Tune
so we simply added fuel, and made another pass.
NOTHING ELSE CHANGED, same 16 degrees of timing, same dyno,
same graph lay out, same smoothing, same everything....

 

It would seem to me that is one blower makes more power at 20psi and another blower doesn't it would not be engine related. Pressure is pressure independant of density far as the valve is concerned. Also the only time I think that this intake valve question would be possible would be during the intake stroke, as the cylinder is under some pressure during exhaust and high pressure on compression stroke, right? so how much of a factor could this be?

 

Rob, no worries!
I will tell you this I have made some adjustments to my set up that will allow me to run some radical boost. I have had discussions with the Crower guy's and they have given me a fix for a few things. E-mail me and we can discuss this further.
I'm a firm believer in the phrase the proof is in the pudding so I think when we tune my truck in a week or two we will see.

Peace,

Suavy

 

Hire me. It will be cheaper because I already know how FOS I am.

 

Blah,Blah,Blah..

Dyno Queens..Lets take this argument to the track under load and see what happens.
IMO (which really counts for nothing) the Magnum will outrun the Heaton at the track. Since the magnum does show better top #s.

But we will see.

VINNIE

 

Rob’s truck made 4 to 5 pounds more boost then the ported Eaton. Typically you gain 10 to 11 hp for every PSI boost increase. We see that even with the little 3.8L V6 so we should see at least that with the 5.4L. So Rob should be seeing 40 to 50 hp increase over the ported Eaton and he is not. Something is amiss. A supercharger is only an air pump so it can’t make hp it can only move air. The more air it moves the higher the boost pressure will be for a given engine with a consistent volumetric efficiency. The Mag can make boost no one has ever denied that so we know it can move air and a lot of it. Now it take hp to make boost and some superchargers can make boost more efficiently then others. If a supercharger pumps air more efficiently then another one it discharge temperature will be lower and the power required to drive the supercharger will be lower. There is not much more to it then that really. We know from many dyno runs and data logs the Mag’s discharge temperature is low in fact Sal has told me it is lower then the KB, not to knock the KB in any way. I’m just saying this to point out the Mag moves air efficiently so we know it is not taking a bunch more power to drive it. So, we all know the Mag makes a lot of boost and is an efficient supercharger. So why is Rob’s truck not making the power that we expect? A good rule of thumb is to fix the obvious first. As you all know by now the stock valve springs are weak, some weaker then others and at least the one I tested could not keep the intake valve closed at 20 psi. Rob is running 23-psi boost so we have good reason to believe they are opening when that should not so how could we ever expect the engine to operate correctly and produce maximum power when the valves are being blown around by the wind? Its simple guys 23 psi is too much boost for the stock valve springs. I wish that was not the case but it is so I got to accept it. It is interesting to me when the boost pressure was lowered the a/f ratio went lean. This is telling us something. If the intake valve is opening during the exhaust cycle when the exhaust valve is open the intake charge will be funneled straight out the exhaust. Could it be the un-burnt air/fuel charge is fooling the o2 sensors and telling us the engine is running richer then it really is, just a thought?

Charles

 

Unfortunately, that's not the case. An unburned charge out the ehxhaust will show up as a leaner mixture. It's an OXYGEN sensor, not a hydrocarbon sensor.

 

ok, at 23 psi, the valves are opening and that explains no big number.......

What about at 17 psi????

Is it possible maybe he's got some leakdown in the cylinders. Has anyone checked that???

Maybe a headgasket leak??

 

Oh well, just a thought, too bad it wasn't a good one.

 

Don't sweat it Charles, EVERYONE makes that mistake. I used to too.

 

Come on Rob ,Shoot the lock off the wallet!!! Get the heads and cams done and lets make some power! Think about it, you stop for a month and wammo a set of trick heads!!! lol....You know the Magnum makes power, My truck put down over 75 horse more than a stock eaton.Almost 50 horse over a ported eaton. On a same day same condition swap from my stock eaton we saw 26 more horse. My #s in my sig were only at 17.5 pounds of boost. MAJOR BELT SLIPPAGE!!After at times i saw 21.5 pounds of boost until i chewwed my belt and blew my head gasket. Im expecting close to 600 horse on Magnum alone no juice when i get finished. And for all those who doubt it, just remember when you hear that screaming whine blow past you its powered by Magnum Powers and tuned by Sal at Power Surge Performance!

 

Forgot sig.