So basically what you are saying is that your blowers are such poor quality that they can't take an extra 100 degrees air inlet temperature.

 

Well I received my KB back last night from KB. It was installed useing the proper torque specs (20ft lbs). I have driven it about 30 miles today to work and to lunch and so far its been fine.

Thanks to Mr. Bell for responding to this, I currently have an airraid box that seals itself to the hood when closed and draws air from the fender hole only. I bought this specidically because of the KB's instructions before I installed it.

I still do not know why nor was I offered an explanation of what caused my KB to have a problem. I hope that it lasts for a good bit of time because the truck is a monster with it on. I love the blower but I am concerned about the reliability issue at this point.

Bob

 

Jim Bell -

Do you think that this air raid box is okay? or do I need to purchase a JLP kit to insure that I dont have any problems with the rotors hitting again.

Here it is on my truck....

Bob

 

Bob, That is the same intake that I use on my truck. I did however modify it. I drilled a 3" hole in the bottom of the box and hooked up connector to it. I then bought 3" dryer ducting and a scoop and routed it to the front bumber. So basically the same as the JLP kit. So now I have a kit that seals to the hood not allowing all the hot air to enter the filter (Although it doesnt seal 100%), the cool air from the fender, and the cool air from the scoop I have hooked up. If you want some pictures of my set-up I can post them tonight.

 

Jason -

Please post them I would like to see them.

Bob

 

OK I will take some pics and post them up wither tonight or tomorrow. The one thing you will notice is you will need a pre-filter since a lot of dirt makes it way up to the filter with a cold air tube.

 

So how much inlet tempature is too much?

The night my blower had a problem it was 60/70 degrees outside. I had made several boost runs to 19/20psi at the top of 2nd gear and into third. I did not make an extended pull to the top of third.

My inlet tempatures should have been no where near 150deg.

I am going to do some real data logging tommorro the temps are suppsoed to be in the 70's.

Bob

 

Well I am not into bashing any company however there is clearly something wrong with the design on the Kenne Bell blowers for the Lightning. I know this to be true as a good friend of mine is now on his 8th Kenne Bell blower. The 7th blower locked up soild only after 10 miles. He was told my Jim Bell that if the 8th blower locked up he would simply refund his money. So after 8 blower failures it kind of rules out just 1 bad blower. I think it is time for Kenne Bell to go back to the drawing board!!!

 

The plot thicken's!

 

That might be one way of characterizing what Jim said.

Another might be that the clearances are tight to promote efficiency, thus providing the opportunity for rotor contact if extreme heat is encountered. Maybe this is a misguided design decision, but I see no reason to characterize this as "poor quality," which implies inferior materials or workmanship.

Nonetheless, Jim's detailed explanation of the maturing process of the KB Lightning charger just goes to show why I am attracted to the Whipple approach -- a complete-from-the-manufacturer, tested-and-true blower is mounted to a custom intake adapter. Most of the growing pains are already over.

 

Is that truely what the Whipple will offer though? (not being a smartass - I tuely don't know). Is the inlet and the snout/drive section a proven, already used piece, or is it an extension of a currently used/working design?

I know the blower case and rotor pack is tried and true, but there would be more to it than just adapting the manifold flange. Would these things factor into "growing pains"? I can't wait to find out - I also have the Whipple on the wish list.

Herb

 

I would like to welcome myself to my first post ever on any of the Ford forums. I am a very proud owner of a VT Engine and KB equipped '02 Lightning (have owned three, yes three others), and an '03 Cobra. I cannot promise that I will give much interaction in the future, as I am very much the type to only read and absorb in all of the exceptional information given amongst the various forum members. However, I can assure you that I have plenty of professional and experienced knowledge with vehicles, including the Lightning (and Cobra). If I may, I would like to elaborate some on one of the issues being discussed within this thread.

It is obvious that many realize that a lot of these aftermarket inlet kits are made of metal. These style of systems (AirRaid, JLP, etc.), can contribute to false readings from the IAT1 sensor, especially the initial "heavy" metal material that one particular kit used to use (even the current design is contributing to the same thing). In-depth testing of multiple filter kits throughout the last 3 to 6 years have shown Lightning and Cobra owners that placement of the IAT1 sensor is critical to an accurate reading. Putting it into metal is NOT going to allow for true temperature readings (even with a rubber o-ring around it). As I am sure that many have noticed, quite a few of the aftermarket intake kits actually have placement of the IAT1 within the conical filter's rubber flange. K&N's Lightning FIPK system actually relocates the IAT1 to after the MAF, which calls for it to be installed into their supplied thermoplastic inlet tubing. Mounting the IAT1 back into a rubber/plastic style of non-heat absorbing material is part of the best method of prevening false IAT1 readings. Consider that for the Cobra owners the IAT1 is within the factory rubber inlet tubing already, and for Lightning owners the IAT1 is within the factory thermo-plastic airbox assembly (on other Fords, the IAT1 is built into the MAF, as it is on the aftermarket Hitachi MAF).

(On a side note for everyone, this from K&N's website:

Contrary to what you may have heard or read, in the USA, a K&N Filtercharger will not void your vehicle warranty. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, passed in 1975, prohibits a manufacturer from conditioning its warranty of a consumer product upon the consumer using any article or service (other than one provided without charge under the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name, unless expressly authorized by the Federal Trade Commission. If the manufacturer does not provide air filters free of charge, they cannot void the vehicle's warranty simply because you have installed an aftermarket air filter.

Although I am not accusing any particular company of ever attempting to do this, I am questioning the legality of the literature that KB includes with their supercharger kits, which state KB can/will void your warranty when using an open filter style intake kit.)

Next Post...

 

Getting back to what I was stating:

With the extensive testing that many of us Lightning owners have done over the years (and even Cobra owners, for that matter), many of us have truly found that using an open filter system within the engine bay, and moving at a sustained pace of approx. 25 and above mph, actual IAT1 is at or near ambient (from at ambient to approximately +10/15 over ambient, depending on speed). For my findings, this was considering the IAT1 was/is installed between the thick rubber flange of a large conical filter. In these conditions, never have I seen IAT1 temperatures much above this, and definitely not the 200 degree or higher temperatures mentioned earlier on page4).

Now, as for my personal testing, I have owned and used several intake kits for the various Lightnings I have owned over the years. I will, for now, solely mention the second one I owned, a semi-enclosed "ram-air" system from a well known company (it was made of a thick, heavy metal). With that system, I had actually datalogged, on multiple occasions of testing, IAT1 temps of near ambient to +40 to +50 over ambient (depending on actual outside weather conditions; the hotter it was outside the more drastic the difference). In or around 100+ degree outside temperature conditions, and at very low speeds of moderate to heavy stop-in-go traffic, I would see on average around 140 to 150 IAT1. Realizing that some of this was artificially raised from the heat radiation of the thick metal used for the metal airbox surround, I rerouted the IAT1 and installed it into the thick flange of the conical filter. This immediately reduced what the IAT1 was seeing for temperature by approximately 5 to 15 degrees, all in the same conditions as above.

Now for the kicker, with an open style conical filter system, the IAT1 within the filters flange, and outside temperatures of or around 100+ degrees, I would see IAT1 temps of the same or slightly lower than when I relocated the IAT1 to the filter's flange of the above mentioned metal box kit. Given all of these conditions, never have I seen IAT1 temperatures at what would be considered dangerous, and I have absolutely never seen 200 degree or higher IAT1 temperatures (again, from what was mentioned earlier on page4). In fact, I've never seen over 150 IAT1, not even on the dyno, and I live in a very hot climate.

In closing, I would like to requote a statement by Mr. Bell himself:

Although I'm not saying that this is solely the problem for the KB (as obviously there are other issues at hand, i.e. extreme side load from aggressive auxillery tensioners), wouldn't you find it odd that this is being mentioned even at all within Mr. Bell's own belief for the failures? I would suggest to KB to not accuse their customers' choice for an intake kit for most of these blower failures (albeit the small % there have been), especially with the reasonings they are attempting to infer within this thread.

Ivan Brown

 

Welcome, KB.

Let me explain why you are talking apples and oranges.

Replacing the stock panel filter with a K&N will not void any warranty. But replacing the stock enclosed box with an open filter -- for exactly the reasons that Jim cited -- may very well do so.

But K&Ns pass more dirt than the stock filters. How do you think that they flow better? So it is possible that Ford might deny a warranty claim if they can prove that some filter-related issue contributed to an engine failure.

The MMA just keeps companies from making you buy their parts. You can replace a part with any other part that meets Ford's specifications.

 

Tim,

Thank you for the welcome.

I understand exactly what you're stating. I should have been more careful in my post when referring to that specific subject. However, as for say K&N, I do not believe a manufacturer could legally void a vehicle's warranty if the K&N device being used has an EO # and C.A.R.B. exemption status, as their FIPK kit for the Lightning and Cobra both have. I could be wrong here, but this is such a tough situation to truly hammer out without some form of court judgement. Could you offer your professional opinion on this, as well? Keep in mind that I'm not referring to a set of camshafts or heads that meet these approvals, but rather the inlet system only, and only the K&N FIPK systems in question.

http://www.jetchip.com/faq.htm

As for everything else I stated in my previous posts, I believe we can all agree on.

Ivan Brown