Destructive Device?
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: Hollywood, CA
Then there should have been more. Especially knowing a member of congress was coming, should have had uniformed or non-uniformed agents at checkpoints throughout. I bet they do now. One guy can only do so much, if 50% had guns, he would have went down. My guess is that people were prohibited from carrying in there anyway knowing that a member of congress was doing a public appearance. That's what usually happens when people come to do public things like that, only it's not enforced, just a sign that promises if you're legal then you're a fish in a barrel.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 32
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From: East TX
Other nations have seen the effects of gun control, and it never leads to increased safety for those who choose to remain law abiding and are disarmed.
The fact is gun control doesn't make society any safer, and history proves it. Yet, you have these highly educate lawmakers who know this full well, as history in our own country has proven, pushing for gun control on the grounds of increased safety. So, the question is why, knowing that the intended result they use to push their agenda produces the exact opposite, do they continue to pursue it under that context? It's simple, as is said many times...gun control is not about guns, it's about control.
When it comes to the silly debates, and laws, regarding magazine capacity, the visual/cosmetic features of particular weapons, etc. it's called "boiling the frog". They slowly take one piece at a time until, before you know it, it's all gone.
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Joined: Mar 2011
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It happened in our nation’s capital. What about the Supreme Court's ruling on whether or not the 2nd amendment applies to an individual's right to bear arms (DC vs Heller)? The ruling was five to four in favor an individual's right. It doesn't get any closer than that!
Other nations have seen the effects of gun control, and it never leads to increased safety for those who choose to remain law abiding and are disarmed.
The fact is gun control doesn't make society any safer, and history proves it. Yet, you have these highly educate lawmakers who know this full well, as history in our own country has proven, pushing for gun control on the grounds of increased safety. So, the question is why, knowing that the intended result they use to push their agenda produces the exact opposite, do they continue to pursue it under that context? It's simple, as is said many times...gun control is not about guns, it's about control.
When it comes to the silly debates, and laws, regarding magazine capacity, the visual/cosmetic features of particular weapons, etc. it's called "boiling the frog". They slowly take one piece at a time until, before you know it, it's all gone.
Other nations have seen the effects of gun control, and it never leads to increased safety for those who choose to remain law abiding and are disarmed.
The fact is gun control doesn't make society any safer, and history proves it. Yet, you have these highly educate lawmakers who know this full well, as history in our own country has proven, pushing for gun control on the grounds of increased safety. So, the question is why, knowing that the intended result they use to push their agenda produces the exact opposite, do they continue to pursue it under that context? It's simple, as is said many times...gun control is not about guns, it's about control.
When it comes to the silly debates, and laws, regarding magazine capacity, the visual/cosmetic features of particular weapons, etc. it's called "boiling the frog". They slowly take one piece at a time until, before you know it, it's all gone.
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Joined: Apr 2001
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From: south western NYS Latitude: 42.34 N, Longitude: 78.46 W
Remember Japan in WW2 thought twice about invading America and the sole reason was every American will be armed and hiding behind every bush. This kept them out of our country after the lameazzes in DC forgot how to defend us with armies..... All i can say is from my cold dead hands.......
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Joined: Mar 2011
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Then there should have been more. Especially knowing a member of congress was coming, should have had uniformed or non-uniformed agents at checkpoints throughout. I bet they do now. One guy can only do so much, if 50% had guns, he would have went down. My guess is that people were prohibited from carrying in there anyway knowing that a member of congress was doing a public appearance. That's what usually happens when people come to do public things like that, only it's not enforced, just a sign that promises if you're legal then you're a fish in a barrel.
Thread Starter
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Senior Member
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 1,719
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From: Blue Ridge Mountains, GA
people can have guns if they want thats their right. That said, if everyone had a gun there is a higher probability of more shootings since theres going to be more guns in general and there would be more stupid people with guns. I guarantee death by guns would go up if there were alot more guns in peoples coats.
Enforce the laws that are on the books, and people that shouldn't own them, won't.
Heck, "everyone" can buy a car, even someone with multiple DUI's.
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"Everyone" doesn't have a gun, and "everyone" can't own a gun in this country. Gun deaths would go up, really? The facts do not support your claim.
Enforce the laws that are on the books, and people that shouldn't own them, won't.
Heck, "everyone" can buy a car, even someone with multiple DUI's.
Enforce the laws that are on the books, and people that shouldn't own them, won't.
Heck, "everyone" can buy a car, even someone with multiple DUI's.
(Im not against the second ammendment in any way just saying with alot more guns, there could be alot more deaths.)
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,075
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From: Yorba Linda, CA
did you read what pickup man said? if there were more people armmed the arizona shooting would have turned out differently, possibly with less lifes lost. maybe maybe not, who knows. Im saying it would because, as he said more people should be armmed, if a substantial ammount more of people toted guns around, I think deaths would go up.
(Im not against the second ammendment in any way just saying with alot more guns, there could be alot more deaths.)
(Im not against the second ammendment in any way just saying with alot more guns, there could be alot more deaths.)
Thread Starter
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Senior Member
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 1,719
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From: Blue Ridge Mountains, GA
That's a very bloodthirsty opinion to have. IF you really believe the world is overpopulated, you could always start with yourself. Practice what you believe.
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Joined: Sep 2005
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From: NW Indiana
America's Third War: Is the U.S. Arming Mexican Cartels?
By William La Jeunesse
Published April 28, 2011 | FoxNews.com
If you ever watch video or look at pictures of the drug war in Mexico, you'll notice some pretty heavy weapons. This is a war being waged with rockets and plastic explosives, not pea shooters and Saturday Night Specials. Consider these incidents:
- A M26A2 fragmentation grenade used against a U.S. Consulate in Mexico in 2008
- Explosive projectiles and 21 grenades found during a raid in Guadalupe
- An unexploded grenade and pull ring used to attack a TV station in Monterrey
- Automatic weapons, including U.S.-made M16s found at a cartel crime scene in May 2009
- U.S. military-issued ammunition found in a cartel raid in Reynosa in November 2008
You can't buy this stuff at a U.S. gun store. So where do the cartels get it? According to leaked diplomatic cables, there are three sources.
1. U.S. Defense Department shipments to Latin America, known and tracked by the U.S. State Department as "foreign military sales."
2. Weapons ordered by the Mexican government, tracked by the State Department as "direct commercial sales."
3. Aging, but plentiful arsenals of military weapon stores in Honduras, Guatemala and Nicaragua.
Even though these facts were well-known by the Obama administration, including Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Attorney General Eric Holder, it blamed much of the violence in Mexico on U.S. gun stores.
"More than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States, many from gun shops that line our border," President Obama said in February 2009.
That was contested, but few listened to gun store owners and former vets like Lynn Kartchner, owner of Allsafe Security, a gun shop in Douglas, Ariz.
"We in the gun industry knew from day one the allegations that the preponderance of sales came from gun stores like this one was totally not true," Kartchner said.
In fact, many of these weapons are getting to Mexico via the U.S. government. Tens of thousands of firearms and explosives are sold legally through the U.S. State Department to the Mexican government. These weapons are then funneled to the traffickers and cartels by corrupt officials within the Mexico Ministry of Defense and local and state police departments.
According to State Department documents, in 2009 Mexico bought nearly $177 million worth of American-made weapons, exceeding sales to Iraq and Afghanistan. That number includes $20 million in semi- and fully automatic weapons.
"Most of the M16s were sold legally to the Mexican government and disappeared," Kartchner added.
State Department cables obtained by WikiLeaks confirm that fear. One cable from November 2009 reads "U.S. law enforcement has fair reason to worry a number of weapons simply disappear... "
Another from June 2009 says, "Rogue elements of the Guatemalan military are selling weapons to narcos."
“These are weapons that have been stockpiled either through U.S. aid programs or currently being shipped there under the guise of military support," said a confidential informant in Arizona who has worked for federal agencies such as the FBI, ATF and DEA.
"The governments and military in those countries realize that the economy is such that they are far better off to push these weapons north and sell them than they are to keep them in their own arsenals and reserves," he said.
Evidence of that is also contained in the Small Arms Survey. The table shows U.S. government sales of rifles, machine guns and handguns in the hundreds of thousands over a five-year period number.
And a GAO report from last year details both foreign military and direct commercial sales of arms from 2005 to 2009.
After looking at a warehouse full of high-powered weapons, allegedly stolen by a corrupt Mexican federal police officer, the informant said it was obvious to him that such weapons did not come from the "mom and pop" gun stores identified by the administration.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/28...#ixzz1LGHK0A7Y
By William La Jeunesse
Published April 28, 2011 | FoxNews.com
If you ever watch video or look at pictures of the drug war in Mexico, you'll notice some pretty heavy weapons. This is a war being waged with rockets and plastic explosives, not pea shooters and Saturday Night Specials. Consider these incidents:
- A M26A2 fragmentation grenade used against a U.S. Consulate in Mexico in 2008
- Explosive projectiles and 21 grenades found during a raid in Guadalupe
- An unexploded grenade and pull ring used to attack a TV station in Monterrey
- Automatic weapons, including U.S.-made M16s found at a cartel crime scene in May 2009
- U.S. military-issued ammunition found in a cartel raid in Reynosa in November 2008
You can't buy this stuff at a U.S. gun store. So where do the cartels get it? According to leaked diplomatic cables, there are three sources.
1. U.S. Defense Department shipments to Latin America, known and tracked by the U.S. State Department as "foreign military sales."
2. Weapons ordered by the Mexican government, tracked by the State Department as "direct commercial sales."
3. Aging, but plentiful arsenals of military weapon stores in Honduras, Guatemala and Nicaragua.
Even though these facts were well-known by the Obama administration, including Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Attorney General Eric Holder, it blamed much of the violence in Mexico on U.S. gun stores.
"More than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States, many from gun shops that line our border," President Obama said in February 2009.
That was contested, but few listened to gun store owners and former vets like Lynn Kartchner, owner of Allsafe Security, a gun shop in Douglas, Ariz.
"We in the gun industry knew from day one the allegations that the preponderance of sales came from gun stores like this one was totally not true," Kartchner said.
In fact, many of these weapons are getting to Mexico via the U.S. government. Tens of thousands of firearms and explosives are sold legally through the U.S. State Department to the Mexican government. These weapons are then funneled to the traffickers and cartels by corrupt officials within the Mexico Ministry of Defense and local and state police departments.
According to State Department documents, in 2009 Mexico bought nearly $177 million worth of American-made weapons, exceeding sales to Iraq and Afghanistan. That number includes $20 million in semi- and fully automatic weapons.
"Most of the M16s were sold legally to the Mexican government and disappeared," Kartchner added.
State Department cables obtained by WikiLeaks confirm that fear. One cable from November 2009 reads "U.S. law enforcement has fair reason to worry a number of weapons simply disappear... "
Another from June 2009 says, "Rogue elements of the Guatemalan military are selling weapons to narcos."
“These are weapons that have been stockpiled either through U.S. aid programs or currently being shipped there under the guise of military support," said a confidential informant in Arizona who has worked for federal agencies such as the FBI, ATF and DEA.
"The governments and military in those countries realize that the economy is such that they are far better off to push these weapons north and sell them than they are to keep them in their own arsenals and reserves," he said.
Evidence of that is also contained in the Small Arms Survey. The table shows U.S. government sales of rifles, machine guns and handguns in the hundreds of thousands over a five-year period number.
And a GAO report from last year details both foreign military and direct commercial sales of arms from 2005 to 2009.
After looking at a warehouse full of high-powered weapons, allegedly stolen by a corrupt Mexican federal police officer, the informant said it was obvious to him that such weapons did not come from the "mom and pop" gun stores identified by the administration.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/28...#ixzz1LGHK0A7Y
Bowser
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,075
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From: Yorba Linda, CA
WOW!!! Sorry my comment caused your blood pressure to go up; I recommended you slit your wrist, I promise to miss you.
Why do you need guns, to intimidate people? I don't think so! You need guns to kill people in the event you feel threatened right. I agree with you, everybody should be armed and ready to kill each other.
The Obama administration is dead wrong about gun control; they support gun control then they support excessive population growth which our planet can't support anymore.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,068
Likes: 2
From: So. Cal.
Blu- I have one word for you- DELUSIONAL! You need to spend some time reading history if you think that can't happen. And as far as you being able to guarantee that there would be more "death by guns if there were more guns in coats", those few towns in the US that have MANDATED that all citizens own firearms, have had dramatic DECREASES in crime, not increases. What fool criminal is going to try to take advantage of honest citizens if he knows there's a decent chance he's gonna come out on the loosing end, and that chance exists when everyone has guns. I'm not necessarily for everyone carrying, but I am for everyone owning, and it should be chambered at all times!
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From: Bismarck, ND
I know you guys are in a heated debate about gun control and all, but I think a more pressing concern for everyone in the country is alcohol related highway fatalities as it kills more people per year than guns do.
So I propose stricter laws on vehicle ownership. We need to limit the speed at which vehicles can accelerate and the top speed in which they can achieve. All persons desiring to own a vehicle must go through a mandatory background check. Additionally, there really isn't any reason why anybody needs a vehicle like a ferrari, corvette, mustang, or any other sports car so we will just out law those as well. No one actually uses those vehicles for work and commuting.
So I propose stricter laws on vehicle ownership. We need to limit the speed at which vehicles can accelerate and the top speed in which they can achieve. All persons desiring to own a vehicle must go through a mandatory background check. Additionally, there really isn't any reason why anybody needs a vehicle like a ferrari, corvette, mustang, or any other sports car so we will just out law those as well. No one actually uses those vehicles for work and commuting.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 705
Likes: 42
See Code is right, thanks to citizens like Dent "Wildman" Myers, 76, we can all rest easy and take note of mandatory gun ownership ending up in responsible hands.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/...19257620070418
Added note to Benny. I have always thought getting a driver's license is too easy. At the least we should have a graduated license that sets certain levels of accomplishment and expertise to rank drivers. An "A" license, a "B" license, etc.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/...19257620070418
Added note to Benny. I have always thought getting a driver's license is too easy. At the least we should have a graduated license that sets certain levels of accomplishment and expertise to rank drivers. An "A" license, a "B" license, etc.
Last edited by serotta; May 3, 2011 at 06:42 AM. Reason: Benny note.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 177
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Blu- I have one word for you- DELUSIONAL! You need to spend some time reading history if you think that can't happen. And as far as you being able to guarantee that there would be more "death by guns if there were more guns in coats", those few towns in the US that have MANDATED that all citizens own firearms, have had dramatic DECREASES in crime, not increases. What fool criminal is going to try to take advantage of honest citizens if he knows there's a decent chance he's gonna come out on the loosing end, and that chance exists when everyone has guns. I'm not necessarily for everyone carrying, but I am for everyone owning, and it should be chambered at all times!