People that take that time with their dogs are usually the ones that have plenty of time with their kids. The kids learn how to love and work with animals while this is going on, as well. It's people that don't have time for dogs, cats, roses, etc that don't have an interest or time for their kids.

 

I don't necessarily see that here - consider where I am. Lots of rednecks and hillbillies that seem to care more about their dogs than their kids.

 

Dogs are like children in that they all are different, even within the same breed, and they all react differently to praise and discipline. Tyson was a 110 pound mass of bone and muscle, no fat. If I commanded, he would stand on his hind legs and put his front paws on my shoulders, looking me straight in the eyes. I weigh 190 pounds, so that's okay, but if he did this to a child or a woman he could seriously injure them.

So if he ever jumped up on me without permission, or looked like he was going to, I hit him, hard, on the nose or more often, between the ears on his rock hard coconut head. Never hit a dog on the ear unless you intend to cause permanent harm. Now before you go all "you mean so and so" on me, re-read the first paragraph. Hitting Tyson anywhere else on his body will result in two things, a sore hand and a happy dog, he says do it again, that felt good.

If he stopped trying to jump, then I praised him, but if he kept looking like he may jump I either raised my fist or voice. He was trained within 6 months.

Like I say, every dog is different. The important thing is to know your dog and be able to communicate with it, using whatever combination of force, voice and reward that is appropriate for your dog.

The single most important tool in disciplining either a child or a dog is consistency. If the behavior is to be stopped, it must be disciplined every time and with equal force. No, okay this time, but not that time stuff. The reaction must be quick, firm and consistent, absolutely no room for excuses. Same for rewards, don't reward one time and then ho-hum another. Rewards should be equal and guaranteed, just like punishment. Never make a dog do a trick for its dinner. That is something that you have promised to your dog, good or bad, asking for a trick is teasing and will lead to a disobedient dog.

As an aside, Tyson knew how to heel, sit, lie down, play dead, roll over, go away and knock it off, among a lot of others. I estimate that he could recognize 100 different words. Sit, lie down, play dead and rollover were all taught with positive reinforcement, i.e. food treats, and were never negatively reinforced for failure, but I would never give him the treat once I asked for a trick until he performed it, and then I would always give him the treat and never ask for any more tricks without offering another treat.

Knock it off was taught exclusively with negative feedback. There was a string of words whose acronym is GDKIO that when he heard them knew that he was in imminent danger of being hit hard on the head.

If there is some particular behavior that is absolutely critical that you teach your dog, then you grab it around the neck and pick it up, if you are strong enough, or wrestle it to the ground by the neck. All dogs understand this. If, for instance, you see your dog out in the street and almost get hit by a car, if you can immediately get to the dog, this would be the time for that. Also, if you see your dog get aggressive with a child or non-threatening person, this would also be the time for the choke hold.

After a couple of years, a good dog that is allowed to run free will get to know you better than you know yourself. He will get to know your moods and habits, and just which behaviors produce just which results. He will be training you.

Tyson was an expert at manipulating women. He learned very early that a sad dog hanging ear expression would buy him a lot of attention from the ladies. Whenever I went somewhere besides work, he rode in the back of the truck. Summer, winter, rain or shine, it didn't matter.

Standing in the checkout line at the grocery store I hear some irate woman yelling, "who left their dog out there in the rain? I'm calling the SPCA, who would leave their dog like that?". At first I paid no attention, and then it hit me. Over here lady. She had walked by Tyson and he had given her that sad dog droopy eared look. She went over and said something like "oh you poor dog". Then he started physically shivering and looked even sadder. Within seconds he had her eating out of his paw, she was willing to get him food and shelter. I told her that he was a 110 pound Redbone Coonhound, the premiere American hunting dog capable of long exhausting hunts in any kind of weather and that she had just been made a monkey of by a coonhound. Harrumph!

 

I have thought long and hard about this over the years and I've decided that it's not true. A dog like Tyson is special, he was my best friend, for life. It is harmful to treat a child in that manner.

First, all children in a family MUST be treated equally. This is not possible if one of them is your best friend. Even if you only have one child, it is harmful to the child to treat it as if it's your best friend.

Second, and most importantly, the critical job of a parent is to prepare the child to be able to survive on its own, not be a best friend or even a friend. Yes, the parent loves the child, but a parent should never try to be the child's buddy, or even really a friend. It is the parent's job to be a parent, not a buddy, and parents that want their children to be buddies and best friends cause more harm than good.

 

Agreed, but you have to be able to fully control the dog when doing this. When my dog was growing up she growled at my wife once... I grabbed the dog by the back of her neck, and held her down on the ground and rolled her on to her back as I growled at her. She got the idea real quick and never growled at my wife again.

Rolling the dog on to its back is a dominating maneuver, but I'd be a little wary of trying that on a fully grown German Shepherd or the like. This technique is probably best used when the dog is still young.

I'll agree with that too. I wouldn't say I was "friends" with my parents growing up, but once I moved out, finished school, got married, etc, then I stood on more equal ground to my parents, and we found we could be friends as well.

- NCSU

 

Yes, I forgot to mention that a dominance order must be set up with young dogs. The dog considers itself part of the family, and is, but must not be allowed to gain dominance over any other human member. In my case, Tyson had been around for 9 years before I met my wife. It was a bit of a struggle at first, because Tyson and I were best friends and we usually shared. I insisted that my wife do the disciplining in this case, and thus the nose whacks, she wasn't strong enough to hit him on the noggin with good results. Eventually they became best friends, and as he aged he was a fine walking partner for her and she took over the duties of walking him, three hours off of the leash, every day.

After Tyson got middle aged, discipline was different. He acted indignant to most of it, much as you or I would act if our parents tried to discipline us now that we are adults.


It is the break, the separation that is critical. After that, the job of the parents is over. College graduation is a huge celebration for the parents, not so much for the 'child'. After that, friends, buddies, best friends, doesn't make a lot of difference.

 

TysonsLariat,
Your words ring true.
The site is disadvantaged in that you only have 79 posts in five years.

 

Should be proper training!

When I trained my Springer Spaniel for obedience and hunting I learned more about kids than I would have ever imagined!
When you give a dog a command they have no idea what you are telling them-so you HAVE TO reinforce it with something, could be praise or punishment or treats. I never liked treats b/c you don't always have treats to give-you can always give praise or punishment.
When you tell a dog to sit it sounds like #@* to them and stay sounds like **^&, so you have to show them the difference in a way they understand. Praise or punishment has to be immediate and can't be mixed with any other action. Like if the dog barks at the fence and you tell him to come then smack him for barking they think they got smacked for comming. You have go to him and smack him for barking b/c they can barely remember the last thing they did let alone the last two things they did, this is where most people fail in training a dog. Yes it is alot of work to do it like that but the results are well worth it. You have get down to their level and see things through their eyes and don't assume thier ideas are the same as yours. Same as with teaching kids, only thing is you can't use a choke chain on kids as much as you would want to some times ha ha!

My first Springer was a hard headed adult with no training when I got him, I learned alot! About half way through hunting training he got out and was hit by a car and died. It tore me up.

My second was from another litter with the same parents and he got Parvo Virus and also died. It tore me up.

My third was a WAP pure bred and I figured if I wasn't meant to have a hunting dog he would be the last attempt, I named him STRIKE THREE! He was the best dog I've ever owned, lived about 17 years! I used the lessons I learned on the first dog (Louis) and at 3 months old he was doing water retrives better than most dogs in my original training class (I continued to work with that class after Louis died).

I could walk Three off lead around the neighborhood and when other loose dogs would bark or come up to him he wouldn't even turn his head at my command. He would do anything I asked of him with 100% effort on his part.

He had so much enthusiasm that as a joke I would turn him loose to retrieve dove that my buddy had dropped and sent his dog after when his dog was 3/4 of the way to the bird, and he would smoke the other dog!

The point is a well trained dog is alot of work and alot of fun.....same as kids!

 

I probably have a few more that that, here's one:

Almost everyone castrates their male dogs these days. Tyson and I were down at the beach and I was talking with an attractive mom in her 30's. Her 7 year old son ran over and asked if he could pet the dog, sure. He went all around Tyson, who was about twice his size, and when he got to the tail asked very naturally, "mom, what are these two things hanging off his butt?" We both had a good laugh and the kid ran back to play with his friends, somewhat puzzled.

I got Tyson at a liquor store, no bull. Went in for a bottle of Jim Beam and came out with a case of coonhound. Typical male shopper, spontaneous, impulsive and decisive. The gentleman who sold Tyson later told me that he had never seen quite such a look of anxiety from one of his customers as the look that I had leaving that store with a little coonhound in a Jim Beam box.

At six months the vet asked to have Tyson fixed, i.e. castrated. I suggested a vasectomy and the vet looked at me as if I had suggested molesting a little boy. No, vets don’t even know how to do a vasectomy. Fine, then Tyson stays “as is”. Awhile later I met a pretty young female vet at a party. She lectured me that castrating the dog was for his own good, that his chances of dying from prostate cancer were much higher if he wasn’t “fixed”. I replied that her chances of dying from breast cancer were far greater than Tyson’s of prostate cancer, so was she going to get herself “fixed”? She looked at me as if I had suggested molesting a little boy.

People don’t castrate their dogs for any of the reasons that they will openly admit. They castrate them to relieve themselves from having to deal with the dog’s sexuality. Tyson was sexual, it was part of who he was, and I enjoyed that. He would sniff your crotch, once. I find many people are uncomfortable with a dog sniffing their crotch, but I think that it’s fine, once. It’s their way of shaking hands. A firm, short handshake is fine. An overly hard or limp handshake or one that lasts too long or is too short, they bother me. A dog that comes up and smells my crotch once is fine, more than that and I am annoyed.

I have been a bachelor for the large part of my life. Living alone with another male, dog, even a young one, didn’t bother me. If Tyson got real frisky, I showed him how to use his bed as a surrogate dog until he was “okay”. As long as he wasn’t hammering away at dinner or when company was over or when I was trying to sleep I didn’t care. Knock it off was the reaction during those times.

One summer Tyson and I drove down to the beach to visit with my sister, her two girls and my parents. Going into a hot beach house with four women and two guys, bathing suits and shoes lying around, I knew was going to be difficult. I had to keep an eye on him constantly. I get up early, usually with the sun, while the rest of family likes to sleep late. In the morning, while it’s still cool, I took Tyson for his long walk along the beach, sometimes even off of the leash if no one was out yet. Upon the return home one morning, Tyson was clearly getting frisky so I locked him in the TV room with his bed and went to make some breakfast. About a half an hour later I hear laughing and giggling and squealing. My sister is standing in the hall with tears of laughter in her eyes. Her two daughters, 8 and 11, are taking turns sneaking up to the door of the TV room, carefully cracking it open, peeking inside, quickly closing it and running away squealing with laughter. Their fist sex-ed course. I explain that if Tyson ever tries to do that with them, that they must hit him, as hard as they can, on the nose. My sister adds that if a boy tries to do that with them, they must do the same thing!

Now let’s jump ahead five or six years. The oldest of my sister’s girls, Annie, is now sixteen, and a real knockout in a bikini. Same scenario, I’m at the beach with Tyson, but we’re all five years older. Annie knows how to deal with boys now, and her family now has a 140 pound female Great Pyrenees, so she knows how to handle big dogs. Tyson, not satisfied with his bed anymore, trots upstairs and gets Annie’s pillow off of her bed and starts hammering away on it. Annie sees this, rescues her pillow, and immediately puts the pillow in the washing machine. I was not there.

A couple of hours later I walk in and Tyson has snuck back upstairs and is humping Annie’s freshly washed pillow. My father, who has never liked dogs, and is a judge who is used to getting his way, authoritatively stomps upstairs and says something like NO, BAD DOG, and tries to grab the pillow. Tyson get his hackles up, bares his teeth and makes a very loud sound that is neither a bark nor a howl nor a growl, but it definitely got the point across, touch the pillow and you’re hamburger, bud. Now we have a standoff and poor old dad doesn’t know what to do. Annie, walking in at this very moment, sees the situation and instantly knows what is going on, jumps upstairs the way only a slim sixteen year old can, brushes poor old grandpa aside like a useless old man, grabs the pillow from Tyson and yells “GD it, I just finished washing that pillow”. Tyson bolts before she can hit him, tail between his legs, like a horse trying to gallop downstairs. I am past laughter and quickly moving towards rolling on the floor tears in my eyes mania. Grandpa, and grandma for that matter, was not amused.

 

Dude - TMI!

 

Only for a city boy, country boys see it all the time and have to castrate the bulls to boot.

 

When I was in high school my Dad had trained our dog to recognize a list of words. I would entertain my friends by talking to the dog in full sentences, which the dog understood and responded to, but the dog simply responded to the one word in the sentence that it was trained to respond to.

People don't always get that, but that's the way it works.


Another thing people often forget, and your dog was happy being itself, doing what it does best.

Two weeks ago I was visiting my Dad. When he fed his yellow lab he set a bowl of food down in front of him and said to me: "watch this." With out saying a word he walked over to his seat, sat down, looked back at the dog and said: "OK." Then the dog started eating.

 

That's is the way an older dog disciplines a younger dog, and it establishes it's dominance, it's kingship. The objective is to show the dog that you are the king, and it has no need to challenge family members for kingship, because the king has already been determined.

Another method that works great when you have a dog and new child enters the household. You sit down on the couch with the child in one hand and dog in the other petting both so to speak. This way you ensure the dog understands you are the king, and both the child and the dog have no need to compete for the king's attention, because both are equally deserving.

 

It's not the dogs that need to learn, it's you. I can tell from my seat you have insecurities about dogs/animals. They can feel that. You need to check your nervousness at the door, the dog is an animal, you are the smarter, stronger human, act like it.

Expecting a dog to be friends with strangers on their territory is just ignorant, and why would it's primary handler wish to teach it that?

 

dlenkewich:

You just completely contradicted yourself. First you say that I'm the problem and that I should '***** up' and not be afraid. Then, you say its normal for a dog to perhaps get angry at the sight of any stranger. Thats horrible advice my friend. May sound good in theroy, but doesn't apply in the real world. FYI, I've had 6 dogs since I was a kid, been around lots of neighbors dogs (10 or so are always over at my parents house) and I've never had a problem before. I love animals, or at least those who know how to act around people.)


Second, I call complete BS on the 'act like the dominant male and the dog wont attack you' mentality. I know lots of vet school students here, so I ran that idea by them at a cookout last week. 7 out of 9 laughed. They all started saying; "what does it matter what the human acts like? If the dog has a dominant personality, it's going to get aggressive and perhaps bite." I guess there's a reason that all of them are cautios around strange dogs, rather than just storming around acting like the dominant figure

This was my thought exactly. It doesnt matter who I am or what I act like. Sure, timidness might add to the aggressiveness of the dog, but point blank, if the dog is dominant, he's going to be more likely to bite you, no matter what you act like. Like I said before, I'll let you show me how to 'be the smart, strong human' around a dog that is on its hind legs, snarling and trying to get the chance to attack you.

CONTROL YOUR FREAKING DOGS PEOPLE