my bad houston_four

 

Hey Josiah,

What Sups would you recommend for Endurance Athletes? I Mountain Bike and ride Dirt Bikes...

Now that I'm a bit Older, I don't recover like I used to and it seems like it takes a lot longer to get into riding shape.

Thanks,

 

It's cool man, I'm still a fatty LMAO

 

BCAAs (branched chain amino acids) are one of the best recovery supplements. Here are two options:
Xtend
Optimum Bulk Powder

Xtend is much more expensive, but when you take into account that it also contains citrulline malate (biggest benefit for you is the increased ATP production) and glutamine (another important amino acid). It also comes preflavored (Watermelon/Grape are my favorites). If you tried to buy all this stuff in bulk to combine together it would cost you more than just buying the Xtend. However, if you can stand the bland taste of a bulk powder, then the Optimum BCAA powder will suit you just fine. Once you start taking BCAAs you should notice an increase in your recovery.

 

To answer OP, I'm the same way. I'm not a small guy and have no reason to gain weight. Right now I'm 6'4" 230 lb and am just maintaining after working on strength for a bit. You shouldn't worry about egg protein or anything like that. Your main two protein supplements that people take are whey and casein. In lamens terms whey protein is absorbed much quicker than casein, which tends to digest slower. For an example of when to take each one: take whey right after your workout when your body is craving it and take the casein at night before you go to bed so it is slowly absorbed through the night. One of my favorite brands is Optimum (see whey and casein). They have some amazing flavors and the option to buy a 10-lb bulk bag is extremely nice. You can't go wrong with good 'ol chocolate.


As far as dieting goes, what works best for me is to cycle. I'll go from a regular 40/40/20 ratio of carbs/protein/fats to the Anabolic diet (I'm looking for the .pdf to post at the moment. I have it saved on my PC so if you want it just let me know and I'll shoot you an email). It's ratios are approximately 60/35/5 (fat/protein/carbs) from M-F and 30/10/60 (fat/protein/carbs) on the weekends. A lot of people say bad things about low-carb diets, but in my experience they have never tried one. It's a great way to lose weight and retain muscle mass. Many people report lowered cholesterol levels (myself included) after being on this diet for a while. It also gives you a ton of energy along with other benefits (all in the pdf). I lost 30 pounds this past summer and kept every bit of my strength and muscle mass.


Another thing, I don't know if you're wanting to gain mass or strength. Generally they go hand-in-hand rather well, but depending on the workout you are doing one will progress quicker than the other. If you're interested in gaining strength I highly recommend a 5x5 program. I hopped on it from this website and gained a ton of strength. In roughly ten weeks my bench increased from 265-->320, squat increased from 285-->360, deadlifts increased from 350-->420, and everything else went up as well. Granted, I ate like a madman but the strength gains were unbelievable. All you have to do is follow the program. There is an excel file at the bottom of the page where you can plug in your current maxes and it will lay everything out for you. All you have to do is print it off and go to the gym. Highly recommended program!



I, too, am glad to see we have some lifters on here! Cheers, fellas!





edit: found it...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2322951/The-Anabolic-Diet

Just like other things, dieting is highly subjective. What works for one person may not work for another. It's amazing how the body will adapt.

 

bhibbs, increase your carb intake, and maintain 1.2-1.4g of protein per kg of your body weight.

mblouir.. amino acid supplements are pointless and generally uneffective, btw, both of those supplements you listed only provide contradictory megadoses of 3-4 amino acids.. and it's true what people say.. low carb diets are bad.. did you know the primary fuel for your brain is glucose, and carbohydrates are extremely necessary during protein synthesis?

It's true everyone is different, but you can't ignore the basic facts of science.

If you people still haven't read this article.. it might open your eyes a little bit on how things really work.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/256125/Small-Bites-Issue-6

anywho, I give up on this one.. lol..

 

Have you ever tried BCAAs or are you just going by what you read somewhere? I have personally weight lifted with and without dosing BCAAs. I have noticed a definite increase in recovery rate while on them. After a tough workout it would take me several days to recover and not be sore. With them it doesn't take near as long. Unless you've tried them don't bash them. BCAAs are one of the most popular athletic supplements. Apparently they are not ineffective.


Same deal on the low carb diet, have you ever tried one? I have and it works extremely well. This particular one cycles so you have carbs on the weekend to replenish glycogen stores. Take a second and look at the bigger picture. Think about when man was still wandering around as a hunting and gathering nomad. His diet consisted of mainly fat and protein with very low carb intake (occasional fruit/vegetable). Not until industrialization has carb eating become the norm. Carbohydrates (in the amount usually recommended) are definitely not necessary for the body. If they were then the old hunter/gatherer would have died out a long time ago and we wouldn't be here. There are many athletes and bodybuilders (and normal people) who are on low-carb diets year-round and they are healthier than the average person. Don't get me wrong, I eat carbs all the time and love them. I just disagree with you that low-carb diets are bad for you. Every time I go back to the Anabolic diet I feel and function better than I did on a 40/40/20 diet.




Don't give up, buddy! I enjoy a good intelligent discussion/debate. I like viewing a topic from all angles.

 

Just read through the article you posted and I have a couple issues with it.

It seems that most of what he says is opinionated as I do not see any references listed. As an example, he says high amounts of protein over an extended period of time is bad for your kidneys. There are no studies that have ever shown a high protein diet causing kidney damage in someone with normal kidney function. Bodybuilders would be the most susceptible to this considering they take in 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight every day minimum. If what he says were true then the majority of bodybuilders would have kidney problems. This is not the case.

Another thing is that he references this "Protein Power" diet that seems very extreme (1000 cals/day). Of course that is unhealthy as you're not taking in enough calories from it. Thus why the diet he listed is a fad diet.


Humans also used to eat just fat and protein a long time ago. Obesity is caused by the growing laziness of society. In general it isn't as important where your calories come from, but the total amount. He even says this himself:



As I said before dieting is highly subjective. There is no solid evidence that one type of diet is better than the other because so many work.

 

lol.. fair enough.. I'll debate.

I only posted that link to the article as a quick reference, if you read into his website a little more, you might find some insightful information.. anywho, carrying on..

I never said BCAAs were uneffective, I said amino acid supplements were uneffective.. If you didn't know, amino acids are the building blocks for proteins. Aminos acids are very competitive with eachother, and when taken in isolate form, they can disrupt the balance on their amino acid counterparts, thus inhibiting protein synthesis. You are much better off taking whey protein as a supplement, in that it provides nearly all 20 amino acids in a balanced form.

There's no need for me to try a low-carb diet.. I'm not overweight, I'm more than healthy, and I'm well educated enough to know the pitfalls of low carb diets. lol

So you think low carb diets aren't unhealthy? The American Heart Association, the National Cholesterol Education Program, and the American Cancer Society all recommend a diet in which a smaller percentage of calories are derived from protein, I'm guessing they need to do some more research..

but in case you're not convinced, here's a few of the many proven health problems associated with high protein diets:

Kidney failure. Consuming too much protein puts a strain on the kidneys, which can make a person susceptible to kidney disease.

High cholesterol. It is well known that high protein diets (consisting of red meat, whole dairy products, and other high fat foods) are linked to high cholesterol. Studies have linked high cholesterol levels to an increased risk of developing heart disease, stroke and cancer.

Osteoporosis and kidney stones. High protein diets have also been shown to cause people to excrete more calcium than normal through their urine. Over a prolonged period of time, this can increase a person's risk of osteoporosis and kidney stones.

Cancer. One of the reasons high protein diets increase the risks of certain health problems is because of the avoidance of carbohydrate-containing foods and the vitamins, minerals, fiber and anti-oxidants they contain. It is therefore important to obtain your protein from a diet rich in whole grains, fruits and vegetables. Not only are your needs for protein being met, but you are also helping to reduce your risk of developing cancer.

Unhealthy metabolic state (ketosis). Low carb diets can cause your body to go into a dangerous metabolic state called ketosis since your body burns fat instead of glucose for energy. During ketosis, the body forms substances known as ketones, which can cause organs to fail and result in gout, kidney stones, or kidney failure. Ketones can also dull a person's appetite, cause nausea and bad breath. Ketosis can be prevented by eating at least 100 grams of carbohydrates a day.

If you're trying to convince yourself that hunter/gatherers survived successfully off of their obvious high protein diets, you may be mislead.. It wasn't protein, it was procreation..

In fact.. The most commom age of death was early adulthood, between 15 and 30. Only 1.5% of people were over 40, and very few lived to reach the age of 50. Old age, rather than life, began at 40.

I'll stick to the industrialized diet.. last I checked.. the average life expectancy for men was over 76 years old.. I think I'll take my chances eating carbs..

I've taken my share of supplements in my younger years, but it wasn't until recently that I learned the science behind it all.. as I said before, I've learned from Registered Dieticians and professors with doctrates in nutrition. I don't waste my time reading into the marketing ploys of Men's Fitness magazines and websites. I'm 5'8'' 175 lbs.. I can bench 285, but unless we're gonna post pics, that last bit is besides the point.

In the end, there's not much you can say to convince me otherwise from what I've learned, facts are facts... mind you, I'm in the healthcare field, I work in a hospital, and study this stuff extensively.. btw.. any relation to this man?

 

I love it.

The amino acid supplements I recommended are mainly L-form, which are more readily taken by the body. I know that a shortage of amino acids can decrease protein synthesis, but didn't know about their competitive nature. See, I learned something. The ones I recommended are at a particular ratio 2:1:1. I never knew why until now.


Nope, not disagreeing with them as it's quite obvious I know .005% of what they do. However, I'm talking about a low-carb/high-fat diet, not a low-carb/high-protein diet.


From my research I've seen that the only people that have problems with high protein intake are those with pre-existing kidney problems. If you have any links that show me otherwise please list them.

See link: http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/2/1/25
"Conclusion

Although excessive protein intake remains a health concern in individuals with pre-existing renal disease, the literature lacks significant research demonstrating a link between protein intake and the initiation or progression of renal disease in healthy individuals. More importantly, evidence suggests that protein-induced changes in renal function are likely a normal adaptative mechanism well within the functional limits of a healthy kidney. Without question, long-term studies are needed to clarify the scant evidence currently available regarding this relationship. At present, there is not sufficient proof to warrant public health directives aimed at restricting dietary protein intake in healthy adults for the purpose of preserving renal function."

First paragraph from WebMD: http://www.webmd.com/news/20030317/h...n-hurt-kidneys
"High-protein diets like that of the popular Atkins diet may accelerate the loss of kidney function in people with early problems. However, these controversial diets do not seem to affect people with normal kidneys, suggests new research."


Again I'm talking about a high fat diet, not high protein. As long as the majority of fats are not saturated fats, there is no problem. The Anabolic diet recommends healthy fats as the majority. Eggs, for example, are high in fat and protein but are proven to increase HDL levels.


Again, high fat, not high protein. But those on high protein diets can increase their calcium intake to combat this. Protein powders and milk, for example, are good sources of calcium.

 

Again high-fat for me, not high protein.
Many of us on low-carb diets are smart enough to take a fiber supplement, multivitamins, etc...those who aren't are the ones who run into trouble here. There are also very few studies proving the relationship here. Some studies are starting to come out that say the opposite.

http://www.ific.org/publications/qa/cancerqa.cfm
"Do the individual types of fats affect cancer risk?
The relationship of types of fat to cancer risk is being actively investigated, but it is not yet clear how saturated, monounsaturated or polyunsaturated fatty acids may affect cancer risk. Although several animal studies suggest polyunsaturated fats may increase tumor growth, no relationship has been found between polyunsaturated fats and cancer in humans. Likewise, studies in animals have found that omega-3 fatty acids suppress cancer formation, but there is no direct evidence for protective effects in humans at this time. The most recent review of the literature on trans fats and cancer concluded that there is no evidence that the intake of trans fats affects risk for cancer."

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/63544.php


I know all about Ketogenic diets--have actually tried a cyclic ketogenic diet in the past, but it wasn't for me. The anabolic diet I referenced is a bit more lax in carbs. The Ketogenic diet is much more strict in that you must be in ketosis all the time, while the anabolic diet prefers you not enter ketosis. I know many people that are on the keto diet and function just fine with no side effects (besides the bad breath ). Many of them have even gone to their doctors for check-ups on those particular side effects, being that they are associated with the diet, and out of all the people I know that went none had the side effects.


Another point of view I hadn't looked at but well taken. This is why I love debates. Ha, I almost want to email the author and ask why he didn't include this.


Ain't that the truth? When I debate or talk about something I do my best to reference something outside those type sources. I really agree with you here, man.


I am not trying to say you're wrong, far from it. I'm just trying to show you another point of view. I think a big factor in our debate is that I'm talking about high-fat, moderate protein diets while you're referencing high-protein diets. I really do trust your judgment and opinion in this stuff just like I'd expect you to trust mine in my field of work. I understand facts are facts and science is science, but remember...only a couple hundred years ago the earth was flat, the solar system rotated around us, and flying would be considered witch-magic. Science changes constantly. I say that in relation to both our views on this.


You're terrible.

 

On the topic of low-carb:

http://www.apinchofhealth.com/resour...-research.html

 

No need. you already did remember https://www.f150online.com/forums/ge...ind-truck.html

You must of either put on some good mass, especially in the chest, or you got some huge wheels.



Mblouir I like your protein choice. My favorite brand. Not saying it is not true, but the whole low carb bb'er thing isn't the best route to go. While you will eventually gain size while bb'ing on a low carb diet, it would be easier to just eat well rounded, including carbs. Ever see a Pro BB'er in off season. They get pretty husky. Those guys have dieticians who advise them on their diets. And trust me, carbs is one thing there is plenty of. I eat a fair amount of carbs myself. Not like candy and crap though. Post workout I usually try to get a 2:1 ratio in. 2 carbs to 1 protein. Usually involving some pb, honey, and other goodies. THen with my post workout dinner I'll have like a sweet potato or something like that.
Not saying you're wrong or anything, just throwing that out there. Just saying I would hate to be a bb'er on a low carb diet.
If the low carb thing works for you though, then more power to you. Everyone is different. I'm a hard gainer, so I try to get all the calories I can. Carbs are my friend when doing that.

I've read a lot of books/publications, consulted with dieticians, and studied all this myself. I also work in the medical field, (although that doesn't mean a thing on this subject). I talk to pharmacist, MD, and pro BB'ers. I not the average men's health reader. I research, and double check everything before I try it out. Even though I don't bb much any more, I still keep myself educated in this subject.
I do still lift, but I am more into circuits, or crosstraining. Crossfit is my main workout now. Trust me, I was at home in a sling for almost 2 months. Not much else you can do but read.

 

Since there are a couple different views in this thread, I will try to list what everyone has agreed on.

1) What you eat is more important then what you do in the gym. Eat good wether is be low carb, high calorie, etc....

2) Whey protein seems to be agreed on as a good supplement. The amount is still up in the air, but it is still a good idea to take.

3)What works for your a-hole genetically gifted friend, might not work for you. Sure he can lift twice a week and look like Mr. october, chances are that you are going to have to work harder, and find what works best for you.

4) Not really mentioned, but I will put it out there. Form, Form, and Form. If you lift with bad form, you are going to get bad results. I've seen guys bench 315, but they still had a small chest. It is all about form when lifting. I suggest picking up a lifting book that will explain the correct form, and tells you what muscles are being worked. Helps when changing routine, and will give you a few workouts you haven't seen before.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...ric%2DDelavier This is a pretty good book. Has a lot of workouts. Explains form, and shows the muscles worked with different lifts.

 

hehe.. i guess one thing we can all agree on is.. to agree to disagree..


I remember watching some instructional videos for lifting weights about a year ago.. they demonstrated correct form pretty well on a multitude of exercises

maybe we should post up some before and afters.. bodybuilding.com anyone? lol j/k