dennis: there is a little bit of difference between police having guns and citizens. number one most of the people that you and i come in contact with are honest upstanding people if a citizen were to use a gun he better have proof that he was attacked or his life threatened by an attacker.
police on the other hand have to assume that most people they approach are a threat. the big difference is that the police have to approach bad people. citizens don't generally volunteer to approach those people that they know are dangerous.

 

So-called gun control legislation and the Brady Bill are Bull****. California had gun buying laws much tougher in effect before the Brady Bill was ever imagined. I am really tired of this liberal (Demecrat) political BS trying to save us from our guns. These laws do not keep criminals or nuts from obtaining guns. The Liberals know that they can not stop this element from obtaining guns, so what do they do. They pass these useless laws to appease a vocal liberal constituancy. Liberal politicians should be aware. There are 60-70 million households in this country with guns and I would bet that none of them will want to give them up. Most of them will tolerate the stupid legislation passed so far, but they will overstep their bounds one day by trying to take everyones guns away or with invasive legislation. At that point the Liberals will lose and have to change their ideas to be elected. In California several years ago they passed a law that if you owned a so-called assault rifle (in reality just a semi-automatic rifle) you had to register it with the State. In the almost 10 years since it passed, less than 10% of them have been registered. They know by the number of them purchased versus number registered. Program is a total failure. State has not gone after other 90% not registered. Politicians in California know that if they openly persecute or prosecute responsible, legal gun owners, they will have a serious problem being elected. ******* Liberal politicians use this gun issue for one thing - to get elected. Also, research has proven that in States and areas where there is right to carry a concealed weapon violent crime is reduced (criminals fear coming into contact with an armed citizen). This research was done by a college professor, not by the NRA.

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2000 F150 SuperCab, Short Bed, 4X4, ORP, 5.4L, Auto Trans, 3.55LS, Captains Chairs with power drivers seat, rear slider, class III towing package, remote entry with alarm and just about everything you can get on this truck. Added a Ford bug deflecter, floor mats and a K&N filter.

 

Aw geeze. You guys jump all over me for my views. Go ahead and flame away. I'll still fight for tougher laws in regards to gun ownership and registration.

Everytime somebody says something counter to what some of you are thinking you automatically label them as bleeding heart liberals.

I'm so tired of hearing that rebuttal. This isn't the 1700s or 1800s any more. In the 1800s, you HAD to have a gun to survive. There was hardly any law to protect you. If you didn't have a gun, you would probably be killed. Well, here we are in the year 2000 and people still think they'll get killed unless they have a loaded gun on them.

Have we not moved past the 1800s?

Read what I posted again. I'm not against gun ownership. What I am for is making it TOUGH for anybody to own a gun. In many states, it's just too damned easy to buy a gun.

You gotta put things in perspective. Hell, in some states, it's harder to get a driver's license than it is to buy a gun!

Anyway, 'nuff said. You're not about to change my mind and it's clear that I'm not changing yours.

 

Why penalize those of us who play by the rules? Why not enforce the existing firearms laws before trying to create others? Why is it if someone breaks in a home or business and steals firearms they're not prosecuted or penalized anymore than if they stole a stereo or television? Your ideas might make you feel good just thinking that there's a possibility that they might work, but they only penalize folks living within the law, not those outside. That's not a flame, just the truth.

 

Dennis...not flaming...just a discussion.

I do not have to accept your point of view either, but I do respect it.

You said--->"In the 1800s, you HAD to have a gun to survive. "

>>>What if someone would have had a pistol with a CCW and used it against the *nut* who went to McDonalds and then to Burger King...*this might have saved some lives*!! My point was proven, the Police were not and can not be everywhere all of the time. Something to consider before you race off and vote for tougher and tougher gun laws!!

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2000 F-150 XLT, 4x2, 5.4L Supercab, Styleside, Black with silver two-tone, 3.55, class III towing package with heavy duty cooling package, 4 wheel disk ABS, overhead console, sliding rear window, keyless entry, dark graphite interior, in dash CD, Pendaliner bedliner, K&N air filter, rubberized undercoating, cabin filtration system, Bugflector II, 5W-30 Mobil 1, engine build 10/4/99



[This message has been edited by Dustoff (edited 03-04-2000).]

 

Dennis - did't mean to flame you, but our legislators are wasting our time and money passing these gun laws. Why? Because the supposed purpose of all the gun laws passed thus far are to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and nuts. As anyone can see by reading the news, they do not work. They only seem to be restricting law abiding citizens. Our drug enforcement laws have not been much more effective. Guns and drugs are not the problem. It's a behavior problem. It's how these products are used. To end this behavior problem we must teach our children that the misuse of either of these products has serious consequences. When either is misused their must be immediate sanction. This may sound like over simplification of problem, but I believe it is the only way to solve the misuse of either of these products. Automobiles are misused every day, sometimes even killing people, but their is no outcry to take our cars and trucks away from us. Individuals that misuse motor vehicles are punished individually and then we go on with life. For some reason this is acceptable with motor vehicles but not for guns. I guess what I am saying, in summary, is that none of these problems will go away until we change behavior, because regulating the product itself will never change behavior.

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2000 F150 SuperCab, Short Bed, 4X4, ORP, 5.4L, Auto Trans, 3.55LS, Captains Chairs with power drivers seat, rear slider, class III towing package, remote entry with alarm and just about everything you can get on this truck. Added a Ford bug deflecter, floor mats and a K&N filter.

 

http://cbsnews.cbs.com/now/story/0,1...7-412,00.shtml

Clinton On Diallo: Race Had Role

(AP) President Clinton says he believes race was a factor in the Amadou Diallo shooting.

In his first public comments on the case, he said he's not trying to second-guess the jury that acquitted four white New York police officers of second degree murder charges. But he said he knows most Americans believe that "if it had been a young white man, in a young all-white neighborhood, it probably wouldn't have happened."

Mr. Clinton made the comments Friday night at a Democratic fund-raiser in San Francisco.

Earlier, lawyers for the four acquitted officers said they will meet with Attorney General Janet Reno's top deputy Monday and urge him not to pursue civil rights charges, as Diallo's family is urging.

One of the lawyers says there's no basis for such a prosecution, and he says the acquittals came after a fair trial.



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2000 F-150 XLT, 4x2, 5.4L Supercab, Styleside, Black with silver two-tone, 3.55, class III towing package with heavy duty cooling package, 4 wheel disk ABS, overhead console, sliding rear window, keyless entry, dark graphite interior, in dash CD, Pendaliner bedliner, K&N air filter, rubberized undercoating, cabin filtration system, Bugflector II, 5W-30 Mobil 1, engine build 10/4/99

 

There is a bumbersticker that has been going around for years that says pretty much everything that needs to be said on this subject. "Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns"!! The fact remains that no matter how much gun control laws you have, the people out there committing the majority of the crimes are not responsible, legal gun owners. Of course, there are always exceptions to this, but it is true as a general rule. And for the cases where some respected citizen flips out due to stress and commits some tragic act, should the rest of us be punished for it. Of course not, that is rediculous. It would be the same as banning all cops from carrying weapons, because something happend to one cop to cause him to commit a violent crime. YOU CANNOT PUNISH THE INNOCENT FOR THE CRIMES OF THE GUILTY!!! As a law abiding gun owner, I have never had to even show my weapon in defense, but I am sure glad I have it should the need ever rise.

As far as Clinton saying that race is a figure in this is just as rediculous. His comment that "had this been a white man in a white neighborhood it would have never happened" is also rediculous. I don't care who it is or where it was at, if there was noncompliace with orders by the suspect, and reasonable belief that a gun had been pulled and was to be used against them, they would have done the same thing. A large fact remains that far more blacks are involved in crime just feeds this "race" thing. It is not fair that more blacks are in poverty, crime, and high gang activity areas, but it is a fact of life.

It seems easy for some of you to sit back in your chair in your plush little suburb house and your nice expensive trucks parked in the driveway and make posts about more gun legislation and how wrong this was. Tragic? Indeed. But not necessarily wrong as even judged by their piers. A very good point was made earlier about passing more laws when we don't even enforce the ones we have now. Well here is another newsflash. People like myself and others who abide by the current laws are not the ones out there commiting all these violent crimes.

Dennis made the comment about "being in the 1800's when you did need a gun to survive". Would he be so confident to decide that people don't need one to survive if he were constantly viewing drug deals, or muggings on the way from his front door just to get to his vehicle to go to work. You might say you would never be in that type of situation, but not eveyone has the choice. Look at 2 of the highest violent crime rate cities in the country, New York and Washington D.C. Do you think it is coincidence that is illegal in both of these cities for the average citizen to own handguns. I wonder.....


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Chris Thomas
1998 F-150XLT Flareside STX Sport Package, 4.6L Auto 3.55 Oxford White/Gray interior, Factory Anti-theft system
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