Foreign VS American the Truth
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From: San Diego
Buying an inferior product (to clarify - I ain't saying that cars from the big three are junk, just that in terms of small-to-midsize sedans, foreign manufacturers did it better than we did for quite a while) from anyone just based on patriotism is taking aspirin for a gunshot wound. When you buy product "A" instead of product "B," just because it's made in the US, you're telling the manufacturers of product "A" that it's just fine and dandy, when in reality it may not be. You're causing more harm to the manufacturer than you are helping them. They need to realize their mistakes, know that there are other, better options out there, take that knowledge, learn from it and build a newer, faster, smarter, stronger, nicer, better built product.
Competition improves the breed, and when you aren't shopping the competition, you're not improving the breed; you're telling the manufacturer to rest on their laurels, their product is good as it is, why fix something that ain't broken, when in reality it is broken. The second and third generation Taurus is a prime example of this - they was a solid, decent, well built, bland little car that gradually got overtaken by Japanese competition - namely the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord. The design, the powertrain, the electronics all got long in the tooth, and Ford didn't bother doing anything about it until they were against the ropes and the Camry took the sales lead from them in the mid '90s. The Escort was in the same boat. It's a lot easier to maintain a lead, than it is to fall behind and have to play catch up.
As far as Mexican built Fords, some of the cars that are coming out of there are some of the best the company has had in a long time, in terms of fit and finish. The Fusion/Milan/Zephyr/MKZ are great little cars that more than make up for the disaster earlier Ford sedans were, like the CDW27 cars and the jellybean third generation Sable and Taurus.
In the end, be American, and buy what you want. Just don't give me that crap that you're supporting the country by buying a Ford, GM or Chrysler product.
Competition improves the breed, and when you aren't shopping the competition, you're not improving the breed; you're telling the manufacturer to rest on their laurels, their product is good as it is, why fix something that ain't broken, when in reality it is broken. The second and third generation Taurus is a prime example of this - they was a solid, decent, well built, bland little car that gradually got overtaken by Japanese competition - namely the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord. The design, the powertrain, the electronics all got long in the tooth, and Ford didn't bother doing anything about it until they were against the ropes and the Camry took the sales lead from them in the mid '90s. The Escort was in the same boat. It's a lot easier to maintain a lead, than it is to fall behind and have to play catch up.
As far as Mexican built Fords, some of the cars that are coming out of there are some of the best the company has had in a long time, in terms of fit and finish. The Fusion/Milan/Zephyr/MKZ are great little cars that more than make up for the disaster earlier Ford sedans were, like the CDW27 cars and the jellybean third generation Sable and Taurus.
In the end, be American, and buy what you want. Just don't give me that crap that you're supporting the country by buying a Ford, GM or Chrysler product.
Our family was never brand loyal, but we have always come back to Ford as they are the best products. They have NEVER done us wrong.
So if I can buy a product that is tied for best in the industry for quality, has a lower price, looks better, and is more of a driver's car/truck...then I sure as hell will...ESPECIALLY knowing it will help my country more than a car or truck made by a foreign company.
It's not a sacrifice as those who buy Jap cars like to claim, it is a win-win.
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the problem with your entire post is that you are basing that entire speech on the idea that one has to make a sacrifice to buy American.
Our family was never brand loyal, but we have always come back to Ford as they are the best products. They have NEVER done us wrong.
So if I can buy a product that is tied for best in the industry for quality, has a lower price, looks better, and is more of a driver's car/truck...then I sure as hell will...ESPECIALLY knowing it will help my country more than a car or truck made by a foreign company.
It's not a sacrifice as those who buy Jap cars like to claim, it is a win-win.
Our family was never brand loyal, but we have always come back to Ford as they are the best products. They have NEVER done us wrong.
So if I can buy a product that is tied for best in the industry for quality, has a lower price, looks better, and is more of a driver's car/truck...then I sure as hell will...ESPECIALLY knowing it will help my country more than a car or truck made by a foreign company.
It's not a sacrifice as those who buy Jap cars like to claim, it is a win-win.
I'd sure check the trunk of a Ford that is built in Mexico before I left the lot though. I'd hate to get pulled over and arrested for harboring an illegal that decided he was tired of working on Ford's back home.
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From: Buffalo NY
So if I can buy a product that is tied for best in the industry for quality, has a lower price, looks better, and is more of a driver's car/truck...then I sure as hell will...ESPECIALLY knowing it will help my country more than a car or truck made by a foreign company.
It's not a sacrifice as those who buy Jap cars like to claim, it is a win-win.
Quality? Ranger VS Frontier. Ranger is known for its great quality. These little trucks never die and are obviously known for it. However, my family has been around nissan for about 3-4 years now and have never had a problem with the 2 altimas. It's been perfect. I joined clubfrontier back in march to start studying frontiers. I already knew enough about the rangers since my brother had 2 (2000 and 2003). I started to read about how good these trucks were, and didnt find as many common problems that really stuck out.
more of a driver's car/truck? frontier had 265 hp, ranger has somethin like 203 right?
Lower price? they wanted 450 a month, 1500 due for the ranger stickered at 24000. i got my frontier for 280 a month 1000 due stickered at 27000.
Looks? I liked both of em.
You know me, i support ford n support american manufacturers obviously. After doin some research on the Nissan Smyrna plant in tennessee, i felt a little more comfortable. in june they celebrated the 25 year mark, n saw all the awards and marks they got. Especially seeing the altima was made there, i felt it was a good choice.
In the end the deal was probably over 50% of the deciding factor with the frontier, but the rest really sealed the deal.
Of course im not trying to make senseless debate here like SMIGGS, just providing my opinion on your post, and defending my own reputation. I feel your post is head-on accurate about toyota. Their quality and marketability is really declining versus the competition.
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Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Northern California
Honda makes a truly reliable vehicle. My friend has one with almost 200k on it. Both his brother and sister both drive an accord too, great cars.
If i always drive a truck, i will surely stick with Ford.
But if i had to buy a car, i would NO DOUBT buy a Subaru WRX, STi version if i could afford it at the time. Subaru makes awesome cars.
If i always drive a truck, i will surely stick with Ford.
But if i had to buy a car, i would NO DOUBT buy a Subaru WRX, STi version if i could afford it at the time. Subaru makes awesome cars.
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Joined: Dec 2001
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From: North of Dallas, South of Frisco
Toyota's rep may have slipped, but they are by no means off the wagon.
The simple fact is, everyone is getting better. The last time I checked, Lexus (A Toyota brand) was still far away the most defect free car manufacturer on the plant, with fewer problems per unit sold than any other manufacturer. Number two was:
BUICK
They both had something low- like 20 defects per 1,000 units sold, or something like that (It's been a while). But, even in that article, they questioned what made a car "good". Hyundai and Kia are gaining faster tan anyone else, and they offer solid choices now. Case in point, the Hyundai Veracruz recently beat the Lexus RX350 in a head to head comparison in ride quality, fit & finish, interior ergonomics, and more.
But, anyway- buy what you like, and don't let anyone "guilt" you into buying something you'd rather not have. You're making the payment, **** what these guys think. As long as that SOB cranks when you turn the key, takes you where you want to go, brings you home safely, and never leaves you stranded- I say you have a winner, I don't give a damn if it's a Daewoo or a Maserati.
Congrats on the Fronteir JB!
Enjoy the Ride!
The simple fact is, everyone is getting better. The last time I checked, Lexus (A Toyota brand) was still far away the most defect free car manufacturer on the plant, with fewer problems per unit sold than any other manufacturer. Number two was:
BUICK
They both had something low- like 20 defects per 1,000 units sold, or something like that (It's been a while). But, even in that article, they questioned what made a car "good". Hyundai and Kia are gaining faster tan anyone else, and they offer solid choices now. Case in point, the Hyundai Veracruz recently beat the Lexus RX350 in a head to head comparison in ride quality, fit & finish, interior ergonomics, and more.
But, anyway- buy what you like, and don't let anyone "guilt" you into buying something you'd rather not have. You're making the payment, **** what these guys think. As long as that SOB cranks when you turn the key, takes you where you want to go, brings you home safely, and never leaves you stranded- I say you have a winner, I don't give a damn if it's a Daewoo or a Maserati.
Congrats on the Fronteir JB!
Enjoy the Ride!
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Joined: Dec 2001
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From: North of Dallas, South of Frisco
i had a mercury milan for a day before i got my escape while the truck was officially gone and in the ford garage, it had the 4 cylinder and boy that thing was a piece of ****. a real rough idle, slow as anything, and not that comfortable IMO. my sister's altima is quick with the 4 cyl, comfortable, and smooth.
I had to chime in on this...
We had a 2006 Ford Fusion, and I loved it. But, I will co-sign for the fact that the ONLY flaw I could find on that car, was the initial roughness of the engine. It was raspy, and not in a good way.
But, if you could bear the hardshness of the engine for about 20 seconds or so, until it got lubed up, she was every bit as smooth as any 4-banger I've ever owned or driven. In fact, once warmed up, the SOB was so smooth and quiet- you'd almost think it was a V6. But, a cold start, and you'd think (What the hell is wrong with my car? It was so smooth last night...)
But hey, raspiness aside- the Fusion is a damn-fine vehicle, and I noticed no quality problems on it. In fact, I thought it had the best sounding stereo I've ever heard on a car under $30,000.00.
The Fusion/Milan/Zephyr (MKZ) are all the same car, with some drivetrain and options available to some, not available to others- seperating them.
But, let's keep it real... Much of the engineering for these cars came from the Mazda6. I believe Motor Trend said they taffy-pulled (stretched) the Mazda6 frame, to make it bigger for us meat & potatoe eating Americans, compared to the tighter fitting Mazda6, for which it was based (As was the Edge and Lincoln MKX).
You can't go wrong with a Fusion.
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Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Palm Desert, California
This is precisely why I bought a USED Nissan Titan. I am not supporting the Japanese economy whatsoever. I stimulated the local American economy by buying the vehicle from my local Nissan dealer, zero dollars went to Japan. I service the vehicle at my local dealer, zero dollars go to Japan. I pump gas from American owned gas stations (whether they're Arab Americans or not), and my truck was built in America by American workers.
Sure, at some point some money went to Japan, but not on my account. And besides, with Nissan since they are 44 percent French owned, doesnt some of the profit go there as well? Aren't the French our allies? Thought so.
I enjoy my "Japanese" truck a great deal.
Sure, at some point some money went to Japan, but not on my account. And besides, with Nissan since they are 44 percent French owned, doesnt some of the profit go there as well? Aren't the French our allies? Thought so.
I enjoy my "Japanese" truck a great deal.
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From: San Diego
Good post. I would have loved to get a ranger instead of a frontier, IF it made sense.
Quality? Ranger VS Frontier. Ranger is known for its great quality. These little trucks never die and are obviously known for it. However, my family has been around nissan for about 3-4 years now and have never had a problem with the 2 altimas. It's been perfect. I joined clubfrontier back in march to start studying frontiers. I already knew enough about the rangers since my brother had 2 (2000 and 2003). I started to read about how good these trucks were, and didnt find as many common problems that really stuck out.
more of a driver's car/truck? frontier had 265 hp, ranger has somethin like 203 right?
Lower price? they wanted 450 a month, 1500 due for the ranger stickered at 24000. i got my frontier for 280 a month 1000 due stickered at 27000.
Looks? I liked both of em.
You know me, i support ford n support american manufacturers obviously. After doin some research on the Nissan Smyrna plant in tennessee, i felt a little more comfortable. in june they celebrated the 25 year mark, n saw all the awards and marks they got. Especially seeing the altima was made there, i felt it was a good choice.
In the end the deal was probably over 50% of the deciding factor with the frontier, but the rest really sealed the deal.
Of course im not trying to make senseless debate here like SMIGGS, just providing my opinion on your post, and defending my own reputation. I feel your post is head-on accurate about toyota. Their quality and marketability is really declining versus the competition.
Quality? Ranger VS Frontier. Ranger is known for its great quality. These little trucks never die and are obviously known for it. However, my family has been around nissan for about 3-4 years now and have never had a problem with the 2 altimas. It's been perfect. I joined clubfrontier back in march to start studying frontiers. I already knew enough about the rangers since my brother had 2 (2000 and 2003). I started to read about how good these trucks were, and didnt find as many common problems that really stuck out.
more of a driver's car/truck? frontier had 265 hp, ranger has somethin like 203 right?
Lower price? they wanted 450 a month, 1500 due for the ranger stickered at 24000. i got my frontier for 280 a month 1000 due stickered at 27000.
Looks? I liked both of em.
You know me, i support ford n support american manufacturers obviously. After doin some research on the Nissan Smyrna plant in tennessee, i felt a little more comfortable. in june they celebrated the 25 year mark, n saw all the awards and marks they got. Especially seeing the altima was made there, i felt it was a good choice.
In the end the deal was probably over 50% of the deciding factor with the frontier, but the rest really sealed the deal.
Of course im not trying to make senseless debate here like SMIGGS, just providing my opinion on your post, and defending my own reputation. I feel your post is head-on accurate about toyota. Their quality and marketability is really declining versus the competition.
Next thing that pops out is your example consisting of 3-4 years and 2 Altimas which is enough for you to decide that Nissan is the way to go? Ever taken a stats class? There are so many reasons why that is a horrible way to base a decision on an entire company.
Next, and the biggest issue with your post is that you are trying to take a SINGLE transaction based on your personal (poor?) credit and a single dealer and use that as proof that Nissan is a better deal? Lmao...
If you A.) Have money B.) Have a brain and C.) Know anything about buying cars you will get a better deal on a Ford than a Nissan/Toyota/Honda any day.
As for the "driver's comment," HP alone doesn't make something more of a driver's car than anything. The Ranger, even with the 154 HP engine is an absolute blast to drive. I loved driving my Ranger more than a lot of vehicles with a lot more power. And, like I said before my comment wasn't just about the Ranger/Frontier which wasn't even addressed, but across the entire lineup.
The Focus is one of the most overlooked and under appreciated cars ever made IMO. They are an absolute blast to drive, have class leading MPG, more power than the other guys who have similar MPG, and a better suspension. You can toss a simple $600 suspension kit on a stripper Focus and have a BEAST for autocross tracks. Oh, and they happen to be one of the cheapest cars in their class, too (2 grand less than a Corolla etc)
Bottom line is Ford offers fantastic options with better deals than the competition and their vehicles are just as capable of lasting and being reliable. why NOT buy a car that can do all of that AND help your country?
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From: Houston
So because YOU personally aren't educated enough to understand the gravity of the situation then it doesn't matter? Wow, that's a solid logic base if I have ever seen one 
Go back to the link provided about the jobs related to the automotive industry. It is huge.
The automotive industry spends more money on research than any other production industry in America. American auto manufacturers spend 80% of their research here at home (Some is abroad because they are international companies, too).
The auto industry can be traced along side the ENTIRE US ECONOMY. When the Big 3 do well, America does well...and vice versa. There is SOOOO much that goes into the production, development, and sales of autos that it is a major factor in the economy. Your CD player is a hell of a lot less involved than your truck, don't you think?
As for your comment about looking at other possessions and where they come from, that again is not an apples and oranges comparison. There simply aren't competitive choices (if at all) with many electronics. With cars, there are.
If you want to turn your back on reality so you can sleep at night when you buy your foreign cars or trucks, so be it. But for some of us it means more than just satisfying our own selfish needs.
Go back to the link provided about the jobs related to the automotive industry. It is huge.
The automotive industry spends more money on research than any other production industry in America. American auto manufacturers spend 80% of their research here at home (Some is abroad because they are international companies, too).
The auto industry can be traced along side the ENTIRE US ECONOMY. When the Big 3 do well, America does well...and vice versa. There is SOOOO much that goes into the production, development, and sales of autos that it is a major factor in the economy. Your CD player is a hell of a lot less involved than your truck, don't you think?
As for your comment about looking at other possessions and where they come from, that again is not an apples and oranges comparison. There simply aren't competitive choices (if at all) with many electronics. With cars, there are.
If you want to turn your back on reality so you can sleep at night when you buy your foreign cars or trucks, so be it. But for some of us it means more than just satisfying our own selfish needs.
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,636
Likes: 264
From: Vernon, NY
So do I need an 8' bed... well the true answer is, occasionally... it's nice to be able to fit full sheets of plywood, 2x4s, and other long items in without the need for those silly flags or the fear of stuff flying out of the bed. But do I absolutely need it? Nope.
Secondly, with the King Cab, I'd have to ability to haul 2 more people around. Which I'm not sure if it is a good thing or not sometimes. AFAIK, it would be a very hard choice for me to choose from if I had to go back through and go about the buying process again.
Do I regret what I bought? Yes and no. The F150 is ok in my books... and same with the Frontier. They are both good trucks, and I'd take either.
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Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Indianapolis, area
I personally don't see a problem with buying a car based on what fits your needs the best regardless of American brand or not. Don't get me wrong I try to buy American as much as possible but sometimes it just isn't. Back in late 2005 my wife had to buy a new car when she totaled hers. I looked for about 1 1/2 months at all models, mid size 4 door sedans. Safety was a top concern since she was just in a serious wreck. I looked at every American car at that time and not a single one had the safety ratings to satisfy me so I ended up getting a 06 Accord. Do I feel bad? NO because it was one of the safest cars in its class at the time and trust me after seeing what my wife went through after her wreck I wanted to put her into a tank. She was T-boned in the drivers side by and F150 doing about 50mph.
The last few years Ford and GM are finally starting put out some nice cars that are better able to compete in the midsize car market which they neglected for so long. It is almost typical of the big three to always react late and not plan enough for the future. Now they have to win back a lot of customers that left them in the last several years. I’m proud to say that if I had to buy a new 4 dr midsize car today I would have more choices that are American made.
I understand that a lot of profits go overseas but at the same time foreign makes bring a lot of money here too. I work in the Auto industry and there are a lot of parts suppliers here in the US that depends on the foreign auto makers to buy parts to stay in business. Heck there are ton of parts suppliers that make the same exact parts for both American and foreign automakers. Heck I design parts for both American and foreign makers!!
The last few years Ford and GM are finally starting put out some nice cars that are better able to compete in the midsize car market which they neglected for so long. It is almost typical of the big three to always react late and not plan enough for the future. Now they have to win back a lot of customers that left them in the last several years. I’m proud to say that if I had to buy a new 4 dr midsize car today I would have more choices that are American made.
I understand that a lot of profits go overseas but at the same time foreign makes bring a lot of money here too. I work in the Auto industry and there are a lot of parts suppliers here in the US that depends on the foreign auto makers to buy parts to stay in business. Heck there are ton of parts suppliers that make the same exact parts for both American and foreign automakers. Heck I design parts for both American and foreign makers!!
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it amazes me how people bash others for not owning an american auto. why is a car different from any other product? i have never got it....
i would love to see these "patriotic americans" homes.
where was your kitchen appliances made? your TV? your power tools in your garage? your computer? your furniture? your lawn mower? your toothbrush? your clothes? that chair your sitting in right now? i bet 90% of the crap in your home isnt american made. so why look down on someone else for what they drive?
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Some things cannot be avoided, but you do not seem smart enough to know that most of the appliance in you home are American Companies, some are made here and some are not..But still the principle is that you are supporting your own.. Look over in Japan these days, they are building mansions with tennis courts and pools in thier yards, while more and more AMericans are losing thier Jobs and homes to these nips day after day. No thanks, I do my hardest to buy what is made here or at least American owned.. The dinks don't buy our stuff and they also don't allow most of our products in thier country, why should I buy thier junk..And most lawn tractors and ZTRs are American made. My lawn ZTR is completely made in the USA as well as both my Trucks and both are even American companies. I like to support my own people rather than seeing the dinks that attacked us living like kings..
I assume that when you talk of the "dinks" that attacked us you are talking about the Japanese. And by attacking us I assume you meant Pearl Harbor... That was almost 67 years ago!! We should always remember what happened but to dwell on that and not buy a Japnese product is rediculous.
Buy American when you can. If what you want to buy is made better by someone from Japan then buy it. I look at quality, not who did something decades ago. If some American companies would wake up and build a better product they wouldn't have to worry about folks buying foreign products.