This has been an interesting discussion. I'm saving this one tidbit below.
I plan to be kinder and gentler with my good friend and help him through the trials and tribulations of '09.

But, if he gets out line, I'll have to beat him with his own stick.
I think you'll find after Nov '08 that liberals will have a change of heart and fully support the majority setting the rules.
Then finally, Liberal, Conservative, you and I will speak with one voice and head in one direction.

 

First, I'm impressed this has remained most civil. Nice job guys, seriously.

Now my .02.

There is not a single true conservative who could support:

the Iraq War
the Patriot Act
or Government based health care

There are plenty of other issues as well to debate.

George Bush is the furthest thing from a Conservative. Heck I can respect a man who pretends to be a conservative and destroys everything conservatives stand for.

For the past several years on this board I have found myself aligned with our more liberal members, calling out Bush and this administration for what it is, a embarrassing failure on too many fronts. Have my views changed? No. Have theirs? No. We all recognize a colossal failure when we see one.

I have watched those who consider themselves to be conservatives attack conservatives such as myself because I don't support the Iraq War, the PA, the ever expanding government spying and intrusion into our lives.

I'm excited to see how this thread develops. I have high hopes.

 

Liberal or republican, neither of you have spell check.

 

Who can honestly say that the person and/or party affiliate with which they voted for actually made a difference? My money's on none of you.

 

However, liberals push for gun control.
Liberals virtually always vote for more social programs.
Dem politicians vote Anti-life (Pro-choice?) and against God.
Dem politicians virtually always vote to increase taxes - and the farther left the Republicans move, the more they do too (today's Reps are left of JFK).
Republican's do care about the environment, but not at all costs with no logic applied.
Dems vote against hunting, dirt bikes, and big 4wd trucks.

You need to study the way they vote, not the platforms they run for office on. The Dems have been getting the union guys screwed for years and yet the unions always vote for them... gotta listen and pay attention to what they do, not what they say - how can you tell a politician is lying? Their lips are moving.

As I said, I am conservative. I don't like or trust politicians. I think it was Thomas Jefferson that said "There is no room in statesmanship for politicians."

 

Again, a libertarian is the definition of conservatism. Get the government out of our lives. They are for life, liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness (notice, no guarantee). I'd argue the value of the war with Ron Paul and frankly, if the states are doing what they are supposed to do, little would be in the federal courts for them to worry about.

A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for ultra-conservatism. But, unfortunately, I don't think he can win. I wish Reagan was back.

 

I also don't think W will go down as such a failure. He has some liberal ideas and some conservative ones. He is a man of conviction. A lot more than can be said for most of our government.

And as an ultra- conservative, I can say that not only do I support the war in the middle East, but everyone I deal with also supports it. Again, take the fight to them. We've fought a lot of wars for dumb reasons, this one actually has merit - when you strip away the crap and look at the core.

 

Would that be oil or empire?

 

It's a beat POS. My uncle bought it for $400 and then decided he didn't want to finish it so he gave it to me with the stipulation that I restore it. I can't sell it or I have to pay him. I've got a lot of work to do with it.

 

The war is about two things, terrorism and a jumping off for our military for WWIII. Plain and simple, we need to have troops ready when all Hell breaks loose.

Liberals voted for the war, before they voted against it.

We have oil here, in bigger reserves than here - unfortunately, the green people have stopped exploration and recovery of it.

As for empires, we don't take over lands and make them part of America. Which is what empire building is. We aren't even colonizing. We don't want them, but we need to have access to the area.

 

So we started a war to train our troops for a war we are likely starting by starting this war. Makes perfect sense.

We are trying to colonize with our ideals, if not our people. We are an empire and it will destroy us.

 

We're not an empire, we're a republic.

 

Good one.

 

The United States of America is a federal constitutional republic comprising fifty states and one federal district.

 

Seriously you are killing me.

Give this a read: