Black Panthers & KKK what’s the difference?
Originally Posted by 98Navi
I am willing to bet, that without googling you don't have a clue what the KKK was started as, what its mission was, or what kind of people were in it. You are blindly assuming that the KKK is only what it has become (I am in no way defending them, I am just making a point) People like to disassociate certain people, groups, or symbols from the entire picture and attach them only to the bad. For instance, the Rebel Flag (also known as the battle flag, and St. Andrews Cross) has become disassociated with anything and everything it had to do with but slavery. That wasn't even the damn true CSA flag, it was just the battlefield flag. Its amazing how some azzhole, or group of azzholes can start a revolution to rewrite history in just a short time, in a way they'd like it to be seen. (read: The flag wasn't just about slavery, there was a whole war with several issues there....only thing focused on was slavery)
Whether Bighersch is Black, White, asian, mexican, european or whatever isn't relevant. I really don't know what he is either. But what I do know is that people become so caught up in a cause that suddenly whatever is stated becomes the new version of history. History that took those years in the making which a small minority of people manage to re-write in no time flat. For example, removing the battle flag from the georgia flag, the SC capital grounds, and the attempt at Mississippi's state flag was nothing other than attempt to remove history. Forget it, you're bound to repeat it. Learn from it, and never repeat your mistakes of past.
Whether Bighersch is Black, White, asian, mexican, european or whatever isn't relevant. I really don't know what he is either. But what I do know is that people become so caught up in a cause that suddenly whatever is stated becomes the new version of history. History that took those years in the making which a small minority of people manage to re-write in no time flat. For example, removing the battle flag from the georgia flag, the SC capital grounds, and the attempt at Mississippi's state flag was nothing other than attempt to remove history. Forget it, you're bound to repeat it. Learn from it, and never repeat your mistakes of past.
I never claimed to know anything about the klan, but since you took it there, the VERY first KKK was organized for several reasons, one of them being white supremacy(excuse the spelling) No I didn't google this either!
As for the confederate flag, I'm from south carolina a small town called marion(that's where my nick comes from) but anyway the whole fight in south carolina was not to have the flag removed from the capital grounds, it was to have the flag not to be flown alongside the United states flag because of the groups that decided to adopt that confederate flag as their own personal flag. Majority of the people who started the fight to removed the flag from flying high atop of the SC capital building proposed putting it elsewhere on the grounds with a memorial...which the state did.
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Actually, marion as I know is in relation to Lake Marion. I know it well, my grandfather lives out there and has for 37 years.
I was born and for the most part raised in SC. Born in a little town called fairfax. I was easily recognized in the hospital at birth as I was the only white child in the place.
My point on the SC flag debacle is simply. The civil war started in Charleston SC. Whether anyone likes it or not, it is a part of Charleston forever, through history and now tourism. That flag has flown there since the day that war began, and although some believe its roots to be in slavery, I believe it to be more about states rights over that of the federal gov't. Slavery was merely a part of that. The point was that the states (of the CSA) fought the federal gov't who wanted to completely destroy an entire economy (and yes slavery was by and large a part of it) A group of states that didn't want some other group of Aholes that weren't even there to tell them what to do. The north needed what the south had, just as the south needed what the north had. The south had a system that produced its products quite cheaply, largely due to the fact that the labor was free after the initial purchase. Its quite similar to todays fight to kick out illegal immigrants. Labor is cheap with them, so goods and services are also cheaper. Kick them out, and well, open up your wallet. With the south, they had no immediate fix for a loss of cost free labor. Those fields and mills won't make the products themselves.
Bottom line on that one was this....The NAACP (which is nothing nowadays other than a trouble making bunch of clowns) wanted it removed from the capital grounds altogether. WHen it was moved, they still weren't happy and continued their BS until they realized that no one cared about their cause anymore. (side note: The NAACP started out as an organization to fight for rights, and now it is an organization that causes trouble, makes issue of dead issues, and generally makes race relations worse.) Even though at this point in time you look back at the KKK and call them racists warmongering bastards, you have to think about it in a turn of the century way and not a current way. At that time, that is how it was. If you didn't agree with it, then you would have been an outcast. Times change, and people change with them. Strom Thurmond is a great example. He was the epitamy of segregation most of his life, and then the first congressman to have a black man on his staff. Unbeknownst to most, he had a child with a black mother. A segregationalist was a leader in integration. Times changed, and he changed with them. He was a great man, and a leader for all..
Its not that it was a symbol of gov't, it was flown out of respect for those who fought under and for it during their time. Really, it came down to a freedom of speech (expression) and it was censored wrongly IMO. Now, there are several that will disagree with me on that. But I ask then, what about that movement from a few years back where blacks decided to alter the color of the St. Andrews Cross and call it the Nu south flag? What if that offended me as a shot through the heart of my heritage? Nobody cared about that though did they?
I was born and for the most part raised in SC. Born in a little town called fairfax. I was easily recognized in the hospital at birth as I was the only white child in the place.
My point on the SC flag debacle is simply. The civil war started in Charleston SC. Whether anyone likes it or not, it is a part of Charleston forever, through history and now tourism. That flag has flown there since the day that war began, and although some believe its roots to be in slavery, I believe it to be more about states rights over that of the federal gov't. Slavery was merely a part of that. The point was that the states (of the CSA) fought the federal gov't who wanted to completely destroy an entire economy (and yes slavery was by and large a part of it) A group of states that didn't want some other group of Aholes that weren't even there to tell them what to do. The north needed what the south had, just as the south needed what the north had. The south had a system that produced its products quite cheaply, largely due to the fact that the labor was free after the initial purchase. Its quite similar to todays fight to kick out illegal immigrants. Labor is cheap with them, so goods and services are also cheaper. Kick them out, and well, open up your wallet. With the south, they had no immediate fix for a loss of cost free labor. Those fields and mills won't make the products themselves.
Bottom line on that one was this....The NAACP (which is nothing nowadays other than a trouble making bunch of clowns) wanted it removed from the capital grounds altogether. WHen it was moved, they still weren't happy and continued their BS until they realized that no one cared about their cause anymore. (side note: The NAACP started out as an organization to fight for rights, and now it is an organization that causes trouble, makes issue of dead issues, and generally makes race relations worse.) Even though at this point in time you look back at the KKK and call them racists warmongering bastards, you have to think about it in a turn of the century way and not a current way. At that time, that is how it was. If you didn't agree with it, then you would have been an outcast. Times change, and people change with them. Strom Thurmond is a great example. He was the epitamy of segregation most of his life, and then the first congressman to have a black man on his staff. Unbeknownst to most, he had a child with a black mother. A segregationalist was a leader in integration. Times changed, and he changed with them. He was a great man, and a leader for all..
I love the confedrate flag and I dont see it as a racist symbol, But it really has no buisness on a goverment flag pole.
You cant use it as an official symbol of a government that is suppose to represent blacks, when it was the symbol of a country that fought to keep blacks as slaves.
You cant use it as an official symbol of a government that is suppose to represent blacks, when it was the symbol of a country that fought to keep blacks as slaves.
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It don’t really matter what the KKK started out as because the fact of the matter they became and continue to be a very racist and terrorist group.
Some of the origons are for the costume are:
The ghosts of the Confederate troops in the American Civil War.
The red cross on the white costume, and the horse resembles that of crusaders.
Because of the symbolism and appearance of these costumes, superstitious blacks in the South thought KKK night riders were the actual ghosts of Confederate soldiers, riding their horses out of Hell to find a drink of water.
The red background, and the red drop, almost definitely represents spilt blood, but there is some argument as to where this came from too. A few of the explanations include:
Blood spilt by the South in the American Civil War.
The blood of the white race.
Blood of some unnamed female victim of a supposed crime, a view supported by the film A Birth of a Nation.
The Blood of Christ at the crucifixion
Blood spilt by the South in the American Civil War.
The blood of the white race.
Blood of some unnamed female victim of a supposed crime, a view supported by the film A Birth of a Nation.
The Blood of Christ at the crucifixion
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Swamprunner,
Glad that your "google" is working, however, I respectfully disagree. Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton in my opinion are merely opportunists and just because he was voted a great black leader in some poll (especially an Associated Press poll!) doesn't mean it is so...Racism is wrong. That means reverse racism is wrong. When you preach devisiveness you do not hold the respect of the title reverand. Oh, and Hugo Chavez-you gotta be kidding right? You don't get much more Anti-American than that guy...
Glad that your "google" is working, however, I respectfully disagree. Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton in my opinion are merely opportunists and just because he was voted a great black leader in some poll (especially an Associated Press poll!) doesn't mean it is so...Racism is wrong. That means reverse racism is wrong. When you preach devisiveness you do not hold the respect of the title reverand. Oh, and Hugo Chavez-you gotta be kidding right? You don't get much more Anti-American than that guy...
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From: NH
Originally Posted by 98Navi
I respectfully disagree with that statement. You are looking through 2006 eyes at an issue from the 1800's.
I realize “intentions” mean something but at the end of the day it’s the “action” that counts and speaks volumes…
Last edited by 01 XLT Sport; May 2, 2006 at 10:10 PM.
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Both groups are agressive with their beliefs, as **** backwards as that is. Oh well, there's always going to be idiots out there to create havoc in one way or another. Hitler would've had a field day in this the age of media insanity.
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By the way, I feel I should say I do not advocate nor support any of hte afore mentioned groups. I merely look at all issues from all sides and try to make an unbiased decision based on the information available 
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Originally Posted by Bighersh
That's not what I said... Besides, I'm educated on far more than the dealings of the Black Panthers and the Klan, two groups near the bottom of my concern list.
As Vader pointed out, the New Black Panther party, and the original Black Panthers, are not "related". I'm talking about back in the day, as well as today. I'm not saying they're are today, or were yesterday- "angels"; nor am I saying I "support(ed)" them. I said what I think, they think they stand for.
As for me, I don't rally to any group, except the "American's". I stand on my own merits, and fear no man. Hell, I've probably served in teh Army with undercover Klansmen and Panthers; as long as they're not harming or preaching to me, so be it...
But yes, I do believe there is a difference, not that either is right, intelligent, or righteous. Nevertheless, until evidence can be shown to me that the original Black Panthers, or the new ones, have killed, beaten and oppressed any race of people, (Other than talk crap about what they wanna, and what they gonna...) then they will never have the same "idiot-blood" running through their veins as Klansmen, Aryins, New ****'s, or Skinheads... Besides, at least they aren't hiding behind sheets, you can clearly see who they are...
I didn't know Panthers marched at Duke today, or whenever they did. All I know is everytime the Klan rallies in Texas (And they do so often) the New Black Panthers somehow know of this, and plan to attend, only to be held back from that area by the police; meanwhile the Klan's right to assemble is protected...
I have no love for either group (You can quote that if you like), but, I can't say I'd be hurt or offended if one day, one of the Klan/Panther rallies goes horribly, and tragically wrong...
As long as no innocents get hurt, so be it...
And guys, this country has come a long way- no doubt; But, don't fool yourself. If two black men had raped a white woman, stripper or not, they'd be dead already, and this wouldn't be on the news... They'd have died in custody, or while "resisting" arrest.
As Vader pointed out, the New Black Panther party, and the original Black Panthers, are not "related". I'm talking about back in the day, as well as today. I'm not saying they're are today, or were yesterday- "angels"; nor am I saying I "support(ed)" them. I said what I think, they think they stand for.
As for me, I don't rally to any group, except the "American's". I stand on my own merits, and fear no man. Hell, I've probably served in teh Army with undercover Klansmen and Panthers; as long as they're not harming or preaching to me, so be it...
But yes, I do believe there is a difference, not that either is right, intelligent, or righteous. Nevertheless, until evidence can be shown to me that the original Black Panthers, or the new ones, have killed, beaten and oppressed any race of people, (Other than talk crap about what they wanna, and what they gonna...) then they will never have the same "idiot-blood" running through their veins as Klansmen, Aryins, New ****'s, or Skinheads... Besides, at least they aren't hiding behind sheets, you can clearly see who they are...
I didn't know Panthers marched at Duke today, or whenever they did. All I know is everytime the Klan rallies in Texas (And they do so often) the New Black Panthers somehow know of this, and plan to attend, only to be held back from that area by the police; meanwhile the Klan's right to assemble is protected...
I have no love for either group (You can quote that if you like), but, I can't say I'd be hurt or offended if one day, one of the Klan/Panther rallies goes horribly, and tragically wrong...
As long as no innocents get hurt, so be it...
And guys, this country has come a long way- no doubt; But, don't fool yourself. If two black men had raped a white woman, stripper or not, they'd be dead already, and this wouldn't be on the news... They'd have died in custody, or while "resisting" arrest.
Both groups are racists, therefore I dislike/disapprove/ignore/hate them both.
That said the KKK have already committed murder, etc. I don't know of the BPs doing that. Therefore on a historical basis the KKK are the more dangerous group.
Fast forward to today. Both groups talk a bunch of trash and don't accomplish anything. Both groups could get their tails handed to them and I wouldn't mind.
I'm not gonna get into the argument about what one race can get away with and what they can't. That is a totally different topic to me.
For now I'll just summarize by saying:
PAST: KKK are definitely more evil
PRESENT: They are equally worthless.
Originally Posted by USAFPATRIOT1
Swamprunner,
Glad that your "google" is working, however, I respectfully disagree. Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton in my opinion are merely opportunists and just because he was voted a great black leader in some poll (especially an Associated Press poll!) doesn't mean it is so...Racism is wrong. That means reverse racism is wrong. When you preach devisiveness you do not hold the respect of the title reverand. Oh, and Hugo Chavez-you gotta be kidding right? You don't get much more Anti-American than that guy...
Glad that your "google" is working, however, I respectfully disagree. Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton in my opinion are merely opportunists and just because he was voted a great black leader in some poll (especially an Associated Press poll!) doesn't mean it is so...Racism is wrong. That means reverse racism is wrong. When you preach devisiveness you do not hold the respect of the title reverand. Oh, and Hugo Chavez-you gotta be kidding right? You don't get much more Anti-American than that guy...
Well as we know, opinions are like *******s, everyone has them! When you can find me a speech that Jesse gave that had hate towards any race of americans let me know...I'm glad my google works to, but I knew about alot of jesse without google. Because a minister speaks out about for civil rights he a racist, Then I guess that make Billy Graham a racist because he refuse to admit back then that civil rights should be awarded to everyone.
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Jesse "sorry azz" Jackson is a moron. He isn't even a good speaker. He is the epitamy of what the black race doesn't need.....A loser who doesn't work, but lives off donations so he can run around and stir up chit.
Al Sharpton on the other hand, is no better about stirring up chit, but I'll give the man the fact that he can speak, and very well at that. He makes Jesse Jackson look like a 4 year old trying to make a 40 year olds speech.
Al Sharpton on the other hand, is no better about stirring up chit, but I'll give the man the fact that he can speak, and very well at that. He makes Jesse Jackson look like a 4 year old trying to make a 40 year olds speech.
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Originally Posted by Bighersh
That's not what I said... Besides, I'm educated on far more than the dealings of the Black Panthers and the Klan, two groups near the bottom of my concern list.
As Vader pointed out, the New Black Panther party, and the original Black Panthers, are not "related". I'm talking about back in the day, as well as today. I'm not saying they're are today, or were yesterday- "angels"; nor am I saying I "support(ed)" them. I said what I think, they think they stand for.
As for me, I don't rally to any group, except the "American's". I stand on my own merits, and fear no man. Hell, I've probably served in teh Army with undercover Klansmen and Panthers; as long as they're not harming or preaching to me, so be it...
But yes, I do believe there is a difference, not that either is right, intelligent, or righteous. Nevertheless, until evidence can be shown to me that the original Black Panthers, or the new ones, have killed, beaten and oppressed any race of people, (Other than talk crap about what they wanna, and what they gonna...) then they will never have the same "idiot-blood" running through their veins as Klansmen, Aryins, New ****'s, or Skinheads... Besides, at least they aren't hiding behind sheets, you can clearly see who they are...
I didn't know Panthers marched at Duke today, or whenever they did. All I know is everytime the Klan rallies in Texas (And they do so often) the New Black Panthers somehow know of this, and plan to attend, only to be held back from that area by the police; meanwhile the Klan's right to assemble is protected...
I have no love for either group (You can quote that if you like), but, I can't say I'd be hurt or offended if one day, one of the Klan/Panther rallies goes horribly, and tragically wrong...
As long as no innocents get hurt, so be it...
And guys, this country has come a long way- no doubt; But, don't fool yourself. If two black men had raped a white woman, stripper or not, they'd be dead already, and this wouldn't be on the news... They'd have died in custody, or while "resisting" arrest.
As Vader pointed out, the New Black Panther party, and the original Black Panthers, are not "related". I'm talking about back in the day, as well as today. I'm not saying they're are today, or were yesterday- "angels"; nor am I saying I "support(ed)" them. I said what I think, they think they stand for.
As for me, I don't rally to any group, except the "American's". I stand on my own merits, and fear no man. Hell, I've probably served in teh Army with undercover Klansmen and Panthers; as long as they're not harming or preaching to me, so be it...
But yes, I do believe there is a difference, not that either is right, intelligent, or righteous. Nevertheless, until evidence can be shown to me that the original Black Panthers, or the new ones, have killed, beaten and oppressed any race of people, (Other than talk crap about what they wanna, and what they gonna...) then they will never have the same "idiot-blood" running through their veins as Klansmen, Aryins, New ****'s, or Skinheads... Besides, at least they aren't hiding behind sheets, you can clearly see who they are...
I didn't know Panthers marched at Duke today, or whenever they did. All I know is everytime the Klan rallies in Texas (And they do so often) the New Black Panthers somehow know of this, and plan to attend, only to be held back from that area by the police; meanwhile the Klan's right to assemble is protected...
I have no love for either group (You can quote that if you like), but, I can't say I'd be hurt or offended if one day, one of the Klan/Panther rallies goes horribly, and tragically wrong...
As long as no innocents get hurt, so be it...
And guys, this country has come a long way- no doubt; But, don't fool yourself. If two black men had raped a white woman, stripper or not, they'd be dead already, and this wouldn't be on the news... They'd have died in custody, or while "resisting" arrest.
First off I would like to say I have great respect for you "as a solider" that served for this great country, thank you. I put a finite line between that which was your job, and your statements from a personal perspective. So here we go…
“Don’t fool myself”, ha, I know exactly who I am and what I believe. As far education....oh nevermind, not worth my time. Don’t worry about me I’m going back to the 04-06 forums where I belong. I thought I would venture over here to check it out, maybe get to know some of you better. Nope, not any more. I’m sure 99% of the people on this board are great people, but I’m not going to listen to this garbage about “I believe this” but…….. and then you excuse the actions of a hate group because you think they are "only talking" and not doing. You are obviously stating one thing and believing another. You wonder what continues unfair treatment of groups of people in this country? It is people like you who pigeonhole people like me into your conspiracy theories against other groups of people. Which is exactly what this and your first post did. See ya….
Josiah, see you in the 04-06 forums.
God Bless America!
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Originally Posted by Rochester
First off I would like to say I have great respect for you "as a solider" that served for this great country, thank you. I put a finite line between that which was your job, and your statements from a personal perspective. So here we go…
“Don’t fool myself”, ha, I know exactly who I am and what I believe. As far education....oh nevermind, not worth my time. Don’t worry about me I’m going back to the 04-06 forums where I belong. I thought I would venture over here to check it out, maybe get to know some of you better. Nope, not any more. I’m sure 99% of the people on this board are great people, but I’m not going to listen to this garbage about “I believe this” but…….. and then you excuse the actions of a hate group because you think they are "only talking" and not doing. You are obviously stating one thing and believing another. You wonder what continues unfair treatment of groups of people in this country? It is people like you who pigeonhole people like me into your conspiracy theories against other groups of people. Which is exactly what this and your first post did. See ya….
Josiah, see you in the 04-06 forums.
God Bless America!
“Don’t fool myself”, ha, I know exactly who I am and what I believe. As far education....oh nevermind, not worth my time. Don’t worry about me I’m going back to the 04-06 forums where I belong. I thought I would venture over here to check it out, maybe get to know some of you better. Nope, not any more. I’m sure 99% of the people on this board are great people, but I’m not going to listen to this garbage about “I believe this” but…….. and then you excuse the actions of a hate group because you think they are "only talking" and not doing. You are obviously stating one thing and believing another. You wonder what continues unfair treatment of groups of people in this country? It is people like you who pigeonhole people like me into your conspiracy theories against other groups of people. Which is exactly what this and your first post did. See ya….
Josiah, see you in the 04-06 forums.
God Bless America!
If you do stick around in GD a thick skin and sense of humor are required.
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From: North of Dallas, South of Frisco
OK-
01 XLT: I appreciate that man- thanks. I admit, I probably took the original post the wrong way. But as similiar as the KKK and BP's are in many ways, they are different in others and that's why I could not see the reason for the comparison... I agree, neither group has any redeemable values. We have debated on a lot, and agreed on a lot; it's good to know we have earned each others respect.
Josiah: Go have a drink (If you're old enough) and relax dude. So, I'm a biggot?
I kept waiting for you to make your point with your retalitory "strike" against me... What point did you bring forth that was "slapping me in the face"? Nevermind, this thread is starting to cool down, no point in heating it back up. Afterall, opinions are like arsewholes, aren't they? If you are as intelligent as you say you are, then surely you see that I have stated time and again that I don't side with the BP's. But it seems with you, it's not what I'm saying, its what I'm not saying, or implying... 
Jeez, a guy takes a psychology course and all of a sudden he's Sigmund Freud.
If you're gonna lump me in with them (BP's) because I'm black, then surely you are associated with the Klan because you're (probably) white. That logic seems pretty illogical, doesn't it? I agree.
Rochester: I think you got me twisted too, but that's the thing about writing, people are free to extrapolate whatever they wish from a passage, and have it mean what they want it to mean. That's probably why we have so many "Christian" religions in the world. They all read the same book, but walked away with different interpretations.
I can assure you, there is not a racist bone in my body. I harbor no resentment of Caucasians, Asians, Hispanics, or any other culture. I'm cool with everyone that's cool with me, and I lose no sleep worrying about the ones that hate me.
98Navi: Well, what else can I say that hasn't been said already?
************************************
Round 2 anyone? Lets debate on something not as devisive as race... Democrats versus Republicans? Liberals versus Conservatives? Immigration reform?
01 XLT: I appreciate that man- thanks. I admit, I probably took the original post the wrong way. But as similiar as the KKK and BP's are in many ways, they are different in others and that's why I could not see the reason for the comparison... I agree, neither group has any redeemable values. We have debated on a lot, and agreed on a lot; it's good to know we have earned each others respect.
Josiah: Go have a drink (If you're old enough) and relax dude. So, I'm a biggot?
I kept waiting for you to make your point with your retalitory "strike" against me... What point did you bring forth that was "slapping me in the face"? Nevermind, this thread is starting to cool down, no point in heating it back up. Afterall, opinions are like arsewholes, aren't they? If you are as intelligent as you say you are, then surely you see that I have stated time and again that I don't side with the BP's. But it seems with you, it's not what I'm saying, its what I'm not saying, or implying... Jeez, a guy takes a psychology course and all of a sudden he's Sigmund Freud.If you're gonna lump me in with them (BP's) because I'm black, then surely you are associated with the Klan because you're (probably) white. That logic seems pretty illogical, doesn't it? I agree.
Rochester: I think you got me twisted too, but that's the thing about writing, people are free to extrapolate whatever they wish from a passage, and have it mean what they want it to mean. That's probably why we have so many "Christian" religions in the world. They all read the same book, but walked away with different interpretations.
I can assure you, there is not a racist bone in my body. I harbor no resentment of Caucasians, Asians, Hispanics, or any other culture. I'm cool with everyone that's cool with me, and I lose no sleep worrying about the ones that hate me.
98Navi: Well, what else can I say that hasn't been said already?
************************************
Round 2 anyone? Lets debate on something not as devisive as race... Democrats versus Republicans? Liberals versus Conservatives? Immigration reform?