You’re kind of lost me on that one. We will NEVER be like Hitler. I don’t recall Hitler killing people who had just invaded another country and tossed new born babies on the hospital floors to die, people who were rapping women and very young girls…

Remember Saddam started this by invading Kuwait. Kuwait came to us, America and asked for us to help kick Saddam’s *** out and we did, we whooped his *** so bad he was crying Uncle, Uncle Sam…

We didn’t just decide to go and invade Iraq one day. We did it because we had to, first we were asked and then the second time because Saddam wasn’t doing what he was suppose to do and then EVERYONE believed he was developing WMDS, remember EVERYONE in the U.N. agreed to that and to top it off even good ol’ Saddam told us he was too…

America may not be perfect but America is the most perfect nation on the face of the earth…

 

Defiantly agree!!!

I must say you had me fooled for a while...From your statements I thought you were a 16 year old testosterone filled kid lacking experience. Then I found out you had a daughter close to her teens or there about from my understanding. So that put you in Jr. high or high school during Operation Desert Storm. So then I thought you might just have been trolling trying to get a reaction. I found that humorous that a troll finally got me. But know I see that isn't the case either and you are trying to understand each other’s logic as much as I am. I'd like to say that I appreciate the courtesy, most people that don't understand something tend to try and force it then get mad and leave or act out in some other form of violence instead of communicating. So I thank you for this grown up conversation.

Now then that blog is out of the way. That earlier statement wasn't very clear, I apologize for that. All I meant by that statement is that killing innocent people is evil regardless of the motive. We cannot call someone evil for something that we have done too. When we bomb cities we know that there are civilians that live there and the body count of civilian vs. military will be greater. "Actually very little military unless they are home on leave. Though it's worded different it still means civilians are the targets. "Babies live in those cities too" With that mind set if we call someone evil because they kill civilians in an act of war, then we are calling ourselves evil too, or we are hypocritical.

Also no we did not HAVE to go over there, it was our choice on our own free will. Because we did, now we HAVE to defend ourself against his allies. If we had decided not to go then 9/11 likely would have never of happened.

Also trying to point out that us as civilians are just spectators and our role is similar to a parent listening to two kids fight. Both kids say that the other one started it. But they both participated so does just one get the blame or called the bad kid?

We have rapist, murders, and pedophiles in our country too. Remember Alkad is a outlaw gang just like our Bloods and Crypts that we have here. Only difference is that so far ours hasn't started anything over seas nor grown that big. Our common stereotypical belief is that their whole country acts that way. Maybe they do maybe they don't, I do not know because I have never been there. But my Family that has with the Marines, National Guard and Red Cross have all reported that it is not what you see in the news.

I do feel that we do help more people out than any other country. Like I said before, the best thing a sub-cultured country can do to improve their economy is to pick a fight with us. Because afterwards we are known to give them money hand over fist for damages. Does that give us immunity from being wrong?

Because of this we have a bad rap in many countries. We can be compared to that guy in school that was known to be a good fighter "which we are " but everybody had to take a shot at him. The only reason he had any friends at all that would hang around with him was for their own protection. He was banned from a lot of parties because it was a given that some drunk would try and fight him. Was he actually a bad guy? Probably not, likely he didn't want any of those fights but had to out of self-defense. I'd wager that nobody ever thought about that guy in school like that either because from observation point of view he was just a troublemaker. That’s how others view us too.

All I was attempting to say through all of this, is that I feel that No the victims families should not get entitlements, that though unfortunate they did not participate in the battle except as unfortunate by standards. I'm undecided on the ones that sacrificed their life on the Penn. plane because they showed true American spirit and gave their life to save the country. If anybody should get entitlements then their families should be entitled to something for that just like our soldiers should too. Amen

Now we have escalated in to a debate on stereotypical views both ours of other countries and other countries of us. How funny and at the same time strange is that. But it's a perfect example of how wars start. (He said she said, push. shove, bomb!) Who actually says something first that starts a war? Unless you have a time machine and willing to eves drop on every conversation for the last 20 years or more then it is physically impossible for us to know the root cause and who started the chain of cause and effect.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Who did what to set the stage. Like the kids fighting it's natural to point the finger elsewhere and not even realize our own part in the scenario....Who knows if it was something as innocent as taking an ally 20 years ago that Saddam didn't appreciate and made him decide to not deal with us on his oil 5-10 years later. That pissed us off, we shoved he shoved back then we kicked his butt! To justify to us as citizens we are told that he is "evil" and must be stopped. Then we get bombed in retaliation by his allies, then we have to bomb back the rest is untold yet. To point fingers and stereotype is rather immature I say lets defend our self’s and take all steps necessary to insure that we are not attacked again. But identify the enemy is the first step and stereotyping a country based on the actions of a gang that resides there. That is targeting innocent people! So then we become the terrorist. It's alright and normal to be angry "we all are" we just need to know who we are angry at.

Now you watch, someone is going to take a section of this out of context and start another debate. It would be a perfect example of the over all sermon. I'm sure there are incompletion because I can not condense 200 years in to a page that anybody would want to read. "I tried to condense and maintain a 10yr time frame as much as I could" Neither do I know all 200 years, much less from every point of view of every person involved in our history.

Thank you for your time and attention, have a spectacular day. I have a deadline for work coming up on 3 projects this weekend so I must get them finished. I'll try and address any questions or comments the best that I can when I can. But don't be disappointed or angry if it takes a while for me to reply or if I miss it.

I know my thoughts and points of views often seem odd because I assume that everyone looks at the world as a big picture as I do. So I don't always elaborate for easy understanding if your only viewing one slice of one situation, then it wouldn't make since. I apologize for that, I'm working on it and trying to convey it all so that everybody can understand.

 

That’s a good post even though I don’t agree with some of it I do however understand your point.

First, no I am no troll, just someone with strong beliefs. I was in the Navy during Desert Storm (I was in from 1982 – 1993).

I think you may be misunderstanding me and concluded that I am making blanket statements about particular cultures (i.e. Muslims). If that is the case let me first apologize and correct the record.

I have absolutely nothing against Muslims, just the radical ones, just like I have major issues with “any” radicals such as the KKK, skinheads, ELF’s etc. In my opinion they are all terrorist and I wouldn’t lose any sleep if they were all taken out…

Now, I do understand what your saying but still disagree. Yes, we may kill some innocent civilians during our war operations but that is part of war that the other side “Iraq” started. People in the cities that die generally know we are coming or will soon be coming so they do have notice to get out before the chit hits the fan.

However, I still stand my statement that even though we may kill some innocent civilians and my heart does go out to them, it is not our fault but rather the terrorist’s fault. They have the ability to stop their violence at any time and they choice not to. They also have the ability to fight like men instead of cowards and hide in the city with the innocent civilians.

Now, though you may not like this next statement I can tell you many people will agree with me but the majority that do will agree in silence because they don’t have the courage to state it out in the public. With the choice of our own innocent citizens dieing or some other countries innocent citizens dieing I don’t have a problem if because of another countries action we happen to kill a few hundred or thousands of their innocent citizens during a war action. If killing 100 innocent Iraq citizens save just one American life then it is justified. I know that sounds cruel and horrible but it is reality and we are still the good guys while the terrorist are the bad guys…

 

Hi Burt, I know better than to debate you good buddy, just asking for some clarification on this part....

Is 100 to 1 your high end?
Could it go 200 to 1 or
1,000 to 1 or even
all of them to 1?

Hey, if it's 'all of them' to 1, I'll take that as an honest, legitimate answer.

You seem to have your finger on the pulse of this administration and citizenry better than most here.(that's a compliment)
I know I'm baffled.

 

I generally loathe him but he is definitely right this time.

 

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I knew it was a misunderstanding, I just couldn't figure out where it was. Appernetly it was mostly me misunderstanding you, It did appear more radical and racisit in nature. So I apologize for my ignorance. Glad we are both on the same page again.

I don't expect anybody to agree with me 100% on everything, if we all did then that would be mondane and boring.

But I have to shamefully agree with the "all of them to 1" even or non formula. :o

If anyone thinks it seems barbaric, your right, it is. We live in a dog eats dog world, its survival of the fitest. As Tom Clancy says, "Kill or be killed!" since that is the choices we now have been faced with, I say and choose KILL! If we don't then we are sitting dog food waiting to be ate.

 

Could be high end or low end. Depends on the time of day, temperature, if I am out driving the L on a nice sunny day or the beater on a crappy day like today, so the number can change…


On a serious note I knew that particular comment would not go over well and that some may misunderstand my point behind it so allow me to expand on my reasoning…

Here is the deal, it’s the truth and it is reality. In war people will die, military people and innocent people. We are the most advance nation in the world and have the most advanced weapons and weapon delivery systems. We can place a bomb in the back seat of a Yogo flying at a blistering speed of 75mph.

However, there will always be problems because absolutely nothing is perfect. Though America is the most perfect nation in the world we will make mistakes.

Furthermore, let me make myself crystal clear. If I had the power to have absolute control over an event such as war not one innocent citizen would ever die, not one. It breaks my heart that someone innocent has to die because of war but though it breaks my heart does not mean I can just walk away from reality, the truth, and how the right thing must be done. You can not go into war with emotions and false allusions of which many Americans do now days.

If we were having this argument about “it’s better that 100 of their innocent citizens die to save just 1 of ours” during WWII with the same mentality America has today we would all be speaking German and working for the man. We would not be allowed to exchange ideas as we do now.

Nobody, including me wants to see any innocent citizens die but it will happen and YES it is better for us if another countries innocent citizens die rather then ours AND here is the BIG difference.

Their innocent citizens, unless they are complete morons without any kind of logic, KNOW we are coming. They know, or should know because of the actions of their government and/or those that live in their neighborhood like the terrorist in Iraq. So they have a choice, pack up and move their butts out of the way or chance it.

That is MUCH different then us sitting in an office building and some coward BAD guy decides to fly a jet liner through the 77th floor OR release chemical/biological weapons OR sets off a nuke in the middle of New York.

So, yes, if need be because it can not be avoided due to “reality” it is ok, in my opinion, if 100 innocent citizens of another country die because of war to save just 1 innocent citizen here in America.

Please don’t misunderstand me, I don’t mean let’s go target and purposely kill innocent citizens of another country because it is something I would NEVER agree with and it is something America has NEVER done.


We are the GOOD guys, and the TERRORIST are the BAD guys…

Black and white, it can’t get any simpler…

 

Thank you and no problem. It is easy to misunderstand someone by just reading their words…

I not a radical or racist, I am however a very prejudice type of person. I am prejudice towards anyone who seeks to harm another person and/or deny them their opportunity to make something of themselves and succeed in life, as well as anyone trying to hold back particular people based on their race, beliefs etc.

That is why I absolutely can not stand the KKK, skinheads and those types of racial and racist white groups and yes I am white. It is groups like that, that tend to make people stereotypic. There are minority groups out there who will lump all whites into a group because of radical groups I mentioned.

Though that may not be right I can understand it. The reason I understand it is because others like me, who are white, should be putting those groups down, calling them out, telling people what we “really” think of them because then it begins to divide the normal mainstream people from the radicals.

I would wish more Muslim groups would do the same thing against the very few radicals they have. I do however understand that could be very difficult because of the terror terrorist hold over not only them but all people.

In case you or anyone else is wondering, if I had my way groups such as KKK and skinheads would be labeled terrorist groups and dealt with accordingly. They are just as much cowards as any other terrorist and they do at times kill innocent people in a group in order to get that group to conform to their ways. Of course they, like any other terrorist, would love to see some groups completely killed off and thus they are, in my opinion, just as bad as OBL or any other terrorist group/leader…

 

I know what you mean and I agree, except I will call myself completly intoleranant to those radical societies. I'm ussally not a politically correct person but we recently witnessed how it can be misunderstood and cause a debate on this board. and I dont have time right now for another one.

To support you view a several years ago the KKK was scheduled to be at our local Jr. High school to protaste an African American teacher on staff. "It's a small town" several of the good old boys here left thier farms and sat at every entrances to the school with the local Police and Sherriff Departments. They waited all day for thier appearance as it was unknown the time that they were suppose to arrive. When the KKK did show up as school let out they gathered across the street and started with the ussall protaste then began yelling remarks towards the teacher inside. The good old boys left 1 or 2 to guard each door and the rest came around to the side the klan was at. They formed a front line and stood untill they started getting violent and thats all the goodd old boys could take so began to advance. The police can not interfere with a protest untill it gets violent. It was understood that if it got violent the good old boys had an ally. As tehy advanced I'm not sure what was said as I was attending that school at the time so I could not leave the sidewalk. Befoe the Good old boys got to the Klan the Klan tucked tale and ran dispersing immediatley. To my knowledge ther has not been a demonstaration in this town since. We still won't tolerate it as a community.

Sorry I have to get to work now, sorry for any spelling errors it was typed fast. just thought you would find that interesting.

 

Keep in mind that we spend more money than any other nation on precision-guided munitions, designed to minimize collateral damage / innocent lives lost.

I don't see the other side/terrorosts/enemies doing the same. Quite the opposite, actually, they target innocent folks.

Are these weapons perfect? Hell no. But they are the best that is available, and we are steadiliy advancing the state of the art.

 

i cant justify it. i say dont send it