FM66,
What, guilty conscience? kidding

The lucky 4 positions are still vacant, 12 days left till polls close, then 2 months of fingerpointing and legal manuvering, theres time yet.

 

no, not feeling guilty, as I'm not voting for either of them, but we have had had some sparring matches. But then again I don't have a deragatory nickname either (other than the one i gave myself).

 

loudist--your response to my post shows a real lack of understanding. My position is based on real life expirience. When something turns up missing in the nice area of town we go to the welfare ridden areas to look for it, and wouldn't you know it we normally find it. The old days of the criminal just stealing from their neighbors is pretty much gone. Most of the welfare abusers own a car and are able to leave their neighborhoods to steal nicer things which in turn give them more money when pawned.

 

Personally regardless who wins nobody should have to leave or be silent for any period of time. I think these threads where the debate gets hot at times, for the most part, are quite evident that they are political in nature. That being the case means nobody is forced to read through them.

I could understand if I or others were getting into political debates in threads that had nothing to do with politics, for example a thread about warranty’s etc…

I for one would strongly oppose any thoughts about having someone like loudist leave or be silent. Now the two of us don’t agree on anything but we as well as all the others here are unique. Occasionally you get the trolls that quote nothing but the talking points but have no clue what they are talking about and can never explain why they have the views they do.

loudist, and not trying to single him out but his name was mentioned, has, in my opinion, true convictions in his views and beliefs. I may not agree with most or all of them but he is not simply someone spouting talking points without the ability to back up why he stands where he stands.

He has perceptions based on what he believes are factually, I have perceptions on what I believe are factually and truth be known, neither he nor I will ever know if we are absolutely correct. I consider it philosophy and there is nothing wrong with that.

I have as much respect for loudist’s viewpoints and beliefs as I do for anyone else and that is what makes not just this site unique but this country, we can argue until we are blue in the face and at the end of the day we can wake up and begin all over with no fear of being prosecuted for what we think, say or write.

I do “not” have to agree with someone to have respect for them or admire their courage to stand their ground. loudist has stood his ground and been over the top at times but I too can be over the top at times as well. The only people I have little respect for are those that spout simply to spout and have no reason to back up what they think or write.

I too will not be doing the “I told you so” regardless of who wins the election because to do so is childish and immature. If Kerry wins the election he will be my President and as far as the security of our country goes he will have my full support. It doesn’t mean I won’t voice my opinion if I think something he does is wrong but I do truly believe America should speak with ONE voice.

In any regards I would ask those thinking about asking others to leave to stop and think it through. Do you really want to silence a voice because it is speaking of something you do not believe in? It don’t matter if it is loudist or myself or anyone else that is asked to leave but in my opinion when others start thinking about asking others to leave it, again in my opinion, shows a sign of weakness. It is easy to argue your point when no one is arguing back…

This post is not aimed at any one particular person, but anybody who may be thinking about asking anyone to leave based on their free expression because it may not be inline with their own…

 

FM66-

Thanks for the insight into micro-biology.

As I said, I'm not well versed in that area- I was making an outside observation. Thank you for breaking it down for me.

Note: I was just kidding about the rudeness. While it was sorta-detectable, please remember I'm a Army Veteran and a former high school football player. I have been called every name in the curse-book, face to face (Drill Sergeants) and across the field (Coaches). By being called oput- I sustained no injury!
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Someone said this- and yes I'm aware that medical advances have been made. Life expectancy, in most groups are up.

I don't doubt doctor's significance and importance. My wife's best friend is a doctor- a Pediatrician.

I recently had a son born via C-section. To watch them do what they did, and put my wife back together again- I'll tell you, I left the OR/Delivery Room with newfound respect for Doctors. I didn't think doctor's deserved so much money; and maybe they don't- but, after seeing my wife's OB/GYN do her thing, deliver my son, then put everything back where it was; I would've written the check myself, had I the funds $$. I just think it's a shame that the same level of healthcare is not available to all.

Case in point: I was at an OB/Ultrasound appointment with my wife one day before our son was born and while waiting a young lady came in who had just been rear-ended in a car accident. She was a sweetheart, maybe 22-23 years old, you could see she'd been crying.. She came to the nearest hospital and she was sweating bullets because she and her husband had no insurance, but she wanted to make sure her baby was OK, so she'd just have to pay whatever it costs, somehow.

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With all the visits we made and all the steps my wife's OB took to insure our baby was OK (High Risk Pregnancy), the end-total was $35,000. Of that, we paid maybe $500. Most of that expence came from the constant rounds of testing, the 5-day hospital stay, and the Anesthesia/Epideral. (Thank GOD for insurance)

Although I don't agree with a lot of what Dubya has said, Preventative Medicine has become a practice by the doctors to prevent them from being sued for malpractice. If it means my wife and my child leaves the hospital happy & healthy, Preventative Medicine is fine with me. I think the lawsuit threat is a good thing as well. Doctor's need to be more careful with an estimated 100,000 deaths per year due to medical mistakes. (That's almost twice the number we lost in 8 years of fighting in Vietnam).

Everything I just mentioned makes healthcare go up. I realize that. I have also been subject to "Social" Medicine as well (Army- if you've ever gone to "Sick-Call" or had to go to the "VA Hospital" you know what I mean. I used to pray that nothing ever happened to me that would require surgery, and it didn't. BUt, if it did- at least I had something- at least I knew I could be seen and taken care of; even if it wasn't the best care. That's the benefit I mean when I speak of social medicine. At least you have something- at least you can be treated....

I realize it's hard to have it both ways, (Cheaper/Excellent Healthcare) so I- like you, wait to see what President Kerry can do about it.

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Someone else said this- and you're right. This started off about 9/11, and has gone full circle to healthcare and HIV. It's interesting; but that shows you that people have a lot on their minds. There's nothing wrong with straying off subject every now & then.

Just because we drive trucks, that doesn't make us simpletons! Though, some may argue.....

 

congrats on your recent new addition cia agent!

You think they are nasty in high school football, I think there were guys who majored in insulting you across the line from me in college. One time I was laughing so hard that I never got out of my stance before he whacked the QB. Coach didn't like that one and he could curse like you wouldn't believe either.

 

Well, Gwen, let me simply thank the senator for the kind words he said about my family.

 

Oh man... I knew this would happen... I left someone out.. my apologies flatman... batman... snackman...

I'll get back to you with one.

 

dzervit has been known to call me fatty if thats any help.

 

That's awesome Burt!

 

Hey Twinkle Toes! Don't help him, make him work at it.
Insults should come from the sweat of one's own brow.
Assistance is colorless, cowardly, feeble, flimsy, impotent, indistinct and insipid.

 

If you want to watch Moore's fiction then you owe it to yourself to also see http://www.fahrenhype911.com/ after you see both sides then make an opinion.

 

Is this an attempt to steer the thread back on topic?
A de-morph, a roll back, a history lesson, a do over, if you will?

There has been more clarifying information since either of those actually supporting Moore's contentions.

The 9/11 report with 28 pages removed by the white house because of the clear Saudi connection to 9/11.

Bob Graham's book (he was chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee) and saw the same intel that shrub did, not the 'cherrypicked' intel given to the congress for the decision to give the authority and apropriations for the war.
In other words he has said that shrub et al withheld the much more prevelent intel that pointed Saddam had no ties and no capabilities for WMD.
In other words... fraud perpetuated on the congress, the country, the world.

What in Moore's movie are lies exactly?
Please list them.

• Did Bush sit dumbfounded with the info that we were under attack?
  
• Is the Carlyle group (a privately held investment company, therefore doesn't publically show its books) owner of many defense contract companies?
  
• Did the Carlysle group have Saudies and Bin Ladens as investors?
  
• Did the Saudi's invest millions and bail out shrub oil company(s) in Texas?
  
• Did the white house allow flights to evacuate high ranking family members of Saudis out of the country, including 26 Bin Ladens?

Step up.

 

good topic and i would really like everyones view.

at what point did "we" know it was an attack and not a malfunction?

what could he (or anyone) have been done in those minutes that would have changed any out come?

ever see the seinfeld were George ran over kids to get out of the fire, had he jumped up and ran off, what would people say?

after the Oklahoma bombing (that was clearly a deliberate action) what action did the acting president take in the first 7 minutes that effected the end result? not talking about the FBI and the Police but the President himself?

to me this is making much to do about nothing, just simple a way to make stupid people see something that isnt there and for Moore to make some $$$$$$.

Loudist, saw a POS mail truck converted to a politcal vehicle and on the side in hugh letters it said "Lick Bush, Beat ****" that wasent you was it?

 

OK, I'm not going to buy it; it's still $19.99, but I HAVE to make it a point to rent this movie this weekend.

I may play it in the break room on November 1st.