Has anybody tried a "grounding kit" on their F150/250? Please see this thread on the Hyper-Ground Kit discussed on the G35 (Nissan 350Z) forum ...

http://g35driver.com/forums/showflat...3&Number=37783

Seems the results are quite amazing. If so, how many cables did you use and where did you attach them?

Thanks.

 

I admit, I have not heard of this before. But with my BSEE and years of experience as a registered Professional Engineer , including the field of "bonding and grounding", I would tend to say the grounding kit for a car would not be functional. Might just be "urban legend". But from the off shore guys that tend to add little things to their cars to make them look cool.... (maybe I should appologize ahead of time for that last cut.)

 

Us engineers know that "theory" will only take us so far in the real world...if we believed otherwise, we would have wanted to become physicists instead!

I have made no conclusion if these hyper grounds will help a truck at all but as engineers, what unbiased emperical tests can we run to test our "theories"?

1. Controlled variable Dyno Tests
2. Luminence metering the head lights.
3. Measuring crank speed of the starter with the fuel cutoff
4. others??

If the grounding kit works:

1. More Hp and Torque (mechanism: unknown...)
2. Brighter lights (mechanism: lower voltage drop through ground return path)
3. Faster crank speed (mechanism: same as above)

Would any of the above three DECREASE if we used thinner ground wire? And if not, we should make our grounds even thinner to save weight to improve acceleration and fuel efficiency...Ford can even save another $0.50 by using thinner ground wires from the factory! How does 16 ga lamp wire sound?

On the other hand, if things get better with improved grounds, there will be a point of deminishing returns...

 

I think this hyper-ground would work even better if they added another lead to connect to a tornado fuel saver...

 

Be sure to lube all fasteners with Slick-50 or better yet AMSOIL.

 

I am not saying that bigger grounds wire will make things better...BUT will putting in smaller ground wires make things worse?

Any electrical engineers care to comment?

Perhaps the factory has found the optimal ground wire size and making the grounds have less resistance will make your electronics perform worse.

 

Yes. Having too small ground wires will make things worse.
If a ground wire is too small, it will not be able to handle the current passing through without heating up. This will cause a voltage drop and therefore reduce the performance of the electrical system.
However, once optimum efficiency has been reached (no voltage drop) with the correct size cable, there is NO point in going bigger.
You cannot have less than zero voltage drop.
Where people may see a benefit with extra grounding is if what they already have is bad.
For example, the engine is earthed usualy with one cable between the chassis and the block.
This is fine for grounding the starter motor but electricity has to pass through the cylinder heads (spark plug return) and possibly the inlet manifold too (injectors, MAF etc).
If there is a voltage drop between the heads and the block, then spark efficiency (therefore power) could be affected. If you have parts made of different materials (ally heads+iron block) then you can get problems with corrosion.

 

I like EnglishAdam's argument which leads me to another question; has anyone determined where and how many ground wires there currently are on a pre-2004 F150? It might not be as important in adding a number of grounds as it is adding one or two at strategic points (e.g. intake manifold, etc.).

 

Amateur Radio Operators (hams) very often wind up adding ground straps to existing vehicle ground systems to get mobile HF transceivers to work well.

Usually the reason is engine/ignition noise at HF (~1.8 MHz to 30MHz) getting into the receiver.

In some cases, emitted HF power from the transceiver can get into the vehicle's electronics systems and interfere with normal operation.

Braided straps are commonly used to bond different pieces of the body to each other and to the frame, such that the body parts act to contain (shield) RF being emitted by the ignition. Whereas the manufacturer will have established a vehicle grounding system sufficient for vehicle operation, that doesn't ensure good grounding at RF frequencies.

Sometimes a ground strap is trailed from the frame to the road surface to drain static charges to earth.

In electrical equipment, "ground loops" can cause all sorts of problems. Ground loops are current flowing between points in the system that are supposed to be at the same ground potential - but aren't. A slight difference in ground potential can result in a whole lot of current flowing where it shouldn't be. Normally the vehicle manufacturer is going to have ground wiring / strapping where needed. An example is the starter - usually (if not always), a separate ground wire is run from the battery to the starter rather than rely on a path through the block.

An old BSEE
& KB6XU

 

Looks like the search function found an old thread for us...

Recently read this article, and was wondering if anyone had gotten any real world experience with this yet.

http://www.caraudiomag.com/testreports/0401cae_hyper/

Caraudiomag article

The article states that there are significant horespower gains by installing ground wires made with 99.99% copper, 1477 strands per cable, and 10% less impedance. Apparently this keeps all sensors at the same ground potential making the voltage readings from them more accurate.

Hyper Ground System Vehicle: 1996 Volvo 850R
RPM Hp Before Hp After Gain Torque Before Torque After Gain
5200 189.3 192.2 2.9 191.2 193.0 0.8
5300 188.9 194.9 6.0 187.1 192.1 5.0
5400 189.9 196.8 6.9 184.7 191.4 6.7
5500 191.8 199.7 7.9 183.0 190.6 7.6
5600 191.2 201.0 9.8 179.2 188.5 9.3
5700 187.7 202.1 14.4 172.9 186.2 13.7
5800 183.6 199.5 15.9 166.2 180.6 14.1
5900 176.6 190.1 13.5 157.2 169.2 12.0
6000 168.1 181.2 13.1 147.1 158.5 11.4
6100 162.0 170.3 8.3 139.5 146.6 7.1

That's what they say anyway....

Any thoughts/experience?

-John

 

I am also very electrical savvy and there could be under some conditions and in some vehicles an improvment in overall performance "if there is either faulty wiring, poor engineering to begin with or an electrical change not done to reasonable technical standards".
In this thread there are two different areas mentioned.
When talking about audio, RF or any performance involving an AC componant then AC impedence is involved and not just simple grounding.
As some of you know a 12" length of #4 wire has ac impedence (ac resistance to the rest of you), as frequency increases.
This will make a difference to some circuits other than lighting, relays and the such.
Grounding to minimize these AC ground loop currents may be helpful to some engine control circuits if for no other reason than accuracy of operation impairment caused by interference.
Take ignition induced spark scatter for instance interfereing with other engine control functions.
As to if it is helpful to do extra grounding can only be deternined on an individual basis.
99.99% of all autos would see no improvment using this grounding application unless solving for a specific problem leads one to do so.
An older car that has started to build poor grounding from corrosion could possibly benifit from this type of cureall grounding.
However this will become another internet big time thing to do at a couple hundred dollars just like the cold air intakes and exhaust changes that keep companies in biz to take money from people who jump at the marketing hype and follow the lead of others just because they done it it and must be the thing to do.
So yes Santa there can be somthing to it under some conditions.
It's not new by any means.
All ready been there long ago.

 

Bluegrass,

I think you've hit the proverbial nail...

If there are grounding problems already in existance, then this upgrade *may* be of benefit. If a proper grounding system in good repair is already installed, adding more grounds *shouldn't* make much of a difference.

It is interesting though, that the test vehicle in the article is a '96 model, I wouldn't expect the ground wires to have deteriorated that much.

Of course, we don't know how the vehicle was maintained....

Maybe I'll just save my $200 for now and buy that new tornado fuel saver that temp1 mentioned....

-John

 

There ya go.
I hate to always sound so stiff about things on this board but people take things so lightly and expect so much from trying to view things in too simple a terms.
There is much more to all of it that meets the eye so to speak.
It is to often forgotten that rules exist in this universe and engineering still has to test theories to be sure they are true, are workable and have a reasonable life to offer the buying public in the name of advancment.
It is being played out now with the engines where the companies go deeper into more exotic methods to get more power to compete with each other and you just can't keep putting simple cool air systems on and changing exhaust to keep geting more power because it just isn't there to get in that easy manner.
For example take the new 3 valve 5.4 engine. Look at what they done to get the power and torque up. 3 valves, variable valve timing and intake runner control. This is not standard engineering any longer. What will be done next? Their running out of things to do except to offer supercharging, increasing displacment and allowing more performance oriented engine computer programming. And oh-yes, don't forget the EPA needs clean air along with it.
Makes air intakes and simple exhaust look very humble indeed on a stock unmodified engine.
These items have become a racket playing on the public for there money at cost of $250 up for what little results there might be on individual installations.
How does anyone know that after the installations, the air temp and density didn't change in the direction that favors more power to ALL engines at the same time and is mistakenly percieved the new air intake or exhaust is responsible for a permant power increase.
Even my 4.6 screw runs very noticable more powerful in 50* and lower temps with no changes.
I am scientific by nature and see things this way. Nobody makes it snow in front of me. I also know what is being done in programming chips to improve engine performance.
Well the box is getting to high now so it's sign off time.
Just think a little about all this insted of being a blind follower.