CTS/CS capabilities/limitations on the 09-10
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From: NC
CTS/CS capabilities/limitations on the 09-10
Rather than continuing to crap on the CS/CTS update thread, the following is an e-mail chain from Edge technical support.
The ones we are working on are the ones I listed bellow. At this time these are the only ones we plan to release.
Edge Products Technical Support
1080 S. Depot Drive
Ogden, UT 84404
Toll Free: 888-360-3343
Local: 801-476-3343
Tech Fax: 801-337-2198
Email: tech@edgeproducts.com
http://www.edgeproducts.com/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: XXX
Sent: Mon 10/18/10 10:41 AM
To: Edge Tech
Subject: RE: Edge Products Contact Form
Thanks for checking.
FYI, the 09-10 F150 CS/CTS already has these options:
Speed Limiter
Tire Size
Gear Ratio
So Edge isn't working on these and there's no plan to?
WOT (Wide Open Throttle) Shifting
Standard (Std.) Shifting
Shift Firmness
Timing Adjustment
AVG MPG PID (not instantaneous)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Edge Tech [tech@edgeproducts.com]
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 12:32
To: XXX
Subject: RE: Edge Products Contact Form
I did some checking and turns out we are working on a few custom options for these trucks. The customer options that will be available are:
WOT Fueling
Idle
Rev Limiter
Speed Limiter
Gear Ratio
Tire Size
Edge Products Technical Support
1080 S. Depot Drive
Ogden, UT 84404
Toll Free: 888-360-3343
Local: 801-476-3343
Tech Fax: 801-337-2198
Email: tech@edgeproducts.com
http://www.edgeproducts.com/
From: Edge Tech [mailto:tech@edgeproducts.com]
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 11:13
To: XXX
Subject: RE: Edge Products Contact Form
(this text is from another e-mail he sent after sending the first):
That email was explaining our new Maintenance Manager that will allow you to set reminders of when to do specific maintenance procedures on the truck. That is what that email was about.
I'm not sure where you are getting your information from but at this time there are no plans for any such update on the schedule. Currently the Evolution does not program the truck's TCM therefore we cannot change the shifting characteristics of the transmission. We are working on being able to program the TCM of the truck but we do not have a timeframe of if/when this will happen.
Let me know if you have any additional questions.
Edge Products Technical Support
1080 S. Depot Drive
Ogden, UT 84404
Toll Free: 888-360-3343
Local: 801-476-3343
Tech Fax: 801-337-2198
Email: tech@edgeproducts.com
www.edgeproducts.com
GR
*** Due to the large volume of e-mail we receive, PLEASE include previous e-mails when responding. This will allow us to read the complete dialogue in one message and will result in quicker responses. Thanks! ***
________________________________________
From: XXX
Sent: Mon 10/18/10 8:56 AM
To: Edge Tech
Subject: RE: Edge Products Contact Form
I’m sorry, I guess I wasn’t clear.
I heard through the grapevine (someone received an e-mail from Edge and posted it on F150online.com) that there was a big update coming for the CS/CTS to add features for the 09-10 F150. This update was supposed to come out in October.
I’m hoping this rumored update will add a number of the missing features (missing as in they are available for the 04-08 on the Evolution), such as:
WOT (Wide Open Throttle) Shifting
Standard (Std.) Shifting
Shift Firmness
Rev. Limiter
Timing Adjustment
WOT Fuel
AVG MPG (not instantaneous)
If the October update is not going to add these features, when does Edge planning on adding them?
Thank you.
Edge Products Technical Support
1080 S. Depot Drive
Ogden, UT 84404
Toll Free: 888-360-3343
Local: 801-476-3343
Tech Fax: 801-337-2198
Email: tech@edgeproducts.com
http://www.edgeproducts.com/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: XXX
Sent: Mon 10/18/10 10:41 AM
To: Edge Tech
Subject: RE: Edge Products Contact Form
Thanks for checking.
FYI, the 09-10 F150 CS/CTS already has these options:
Speed Limiter
Tire Size
Gear Ratio
So Edge isn't working on these and there's no plan to?
WOT (Wide Open Throttle) Shifting
Standard (Std.) Shifting
Shift Firmness
Timing Adjustment
AVG MPG PID (not instantaneous)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Edge Tech [tech@edgeproducts.com]
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 12:32
To: XXX
Subject: RE: Edge Products Contact Form
I did some checking and turns out we are working on a few custom options for these trucks. The customer options that will be available are:
WOT Fueling
Idle
Rev Limiter
Speed Limiter
Gear Ratio
Tire Size
Edge Products Technical Support
1080 S. Depot Drive
Ogden, UT 84404
Toll Free: 888-360-3343
Local: 801-476-3343
Tech Fax: 801-337-2198
Email: tech@edgeproducts.com
http://www.edgeproducts.com/
From: Edge Tech [mailto:tech@edgeproducts.com]
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 11:13
To: XXX
Subject: RE: Edge Products Contact Form
(this text is from another e-mail he sent after sending the first):
That email was explaining our new Maintenance Manager that will allow you to set reminders of when to do specific maintenance procedures on the truck. That is what that email was about.
I'm not sure where you are getting your information from but at this time there are no plans for any such update on the schedule. Currently the Evolution does not program the truck's TCM therefore we cannot change the shifting characteristics of the transmission. We are working on being able to program the TCM of the truck but we do not have a timeframe of if/when this will happen.
Let me know if you have any additional questions.
Edge Products Technical Support
1080 S. Depot Drive
Ogden, UT 84404
Toll Free: 888-360-3343
Local: 801-476-3343
Tech Fax: 801-337-2198
Email: tech@edgeproducts.com
www.edgeproducts.com
GR
*** Due to the large volume of e-mail we receive, PLEASE include previous e-mails when responding. This will allow us to read the complete dialogue in one message and will result in quicker responses. Thanks! ***
________________________________________
From: XXX
Sent: Mon 10/18/10 8:56 AM
To: Edge Tech
Subject: RE: Edge Products Contact Form
I’m sorry, I guess I wasn’t clear.
I heard through the grapevine (someone received an e-mail from Edge and posted it on F150online.com) that there was a big update coming for the CS/CTS to add features for the 09-10 F150. This update was supposed to come out in October.
I’m hoping this rumored update will add a number of the missing features (missing as in they are available for the 04-08 on the Evolution), such as:
WOT (Wide Open Throttle) Shifting
Standard (Std.) Shifting
Shift Firmness
Rev. Limiter
Timing Adjustment
WOT Fuel
AVG MPG (not instantaneous)
If the October update is not going to add these features, when does Edge planning on adding them?
Thank you.
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From: Among javelinas and scorpions in Zoniestan
So, I'm confused. Is Edge planning on working on these features in the future or not? If they aren't, I think they should make clear what the CS/CTS DOES offer to 09+ truck owners and hope for the best. If they have a program in place to actually work on these features, they should make that clear too.
Please don't misunderstand me here. I think the CS/CTS is a good hardware platform. If they need help getting the software in shape they need to hire someone with the expertise to do it.
The whole concept of a separate PCM and TCM is not new. I'm certain there are people out there who know how to address the issue if Edge were willing.
- Jack
Please don't misunderstand me here. I think the CS/CTS is a good hardware platform. If they need help getting the software in shape they need to hire someone with the expertise to do it.
The whole concept of a separate PCM and TCM is not new. I'm certain there are people out there who know how to address the issue if Edge were willing.
- Jack
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Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,712
Likes: 1
From: NC
The only additional features they plan to offer are:
WOT Fueling
Idle
Rev Limiter
They have no plans to offer:
WOT (Wide Open Throttle) Shifting
Standard (Std.) Shifting
Shift Firmness
Timing Adjustment
AVG MPG PID (not instantaneous)
In addition, they are working on re-programming the TCM, but they don't know when it will be available.
WOT Fueling
Idle
Rev Limiter
They have no plans to offer:
WOT (Wide Open Throttle) Shifting
Standard (Std.) Shifting
Shift Firmness
Timing Adjustment
AVG MPG PID (not instantaneous)
In addition, they are working on re-programming the TCM, but they don't know when it will be available.
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 371
Likes: 0
As far as I can tell, the Edge CTS does not change the transmission at all. It says that it is unlocking and programming the ECM, with no mention of the TCM. I have tried the towing and extreme settings, and see no difference in shifting whatsoever. I know some have said that it firmed up the shifts, but I haven't seen it.
I spoke with Edge today, and they confirmed that there are many customizations that the CTS does on the 97-08 that it does not do on the 09-10. Perhaps they will come in the future - I hope so! I see nothing in the advertising that indicates this.
My unit definitely increased off-the-line performance, but pings significantly with 87 octane (tow and extreme) and pings just a little on 93 octane (both tunes as well). My 0-60 was 8.5 on "towing" with 1/4 tank of 87 octane and also 8.5 seconds on a full tank of 93 octane (same stretch of road). It burns the tires now; it didn't burn them when stock on gas, and just a little stock on E85. If the PHP unit doesn't change the transmission either, it seems that the XCAL SCT3 is a better choice.
I just emailed Bill at PHP to clear this up.
I spoke with Edge today, and they confirmed that there are many customizations that the CTS does on the 97-08 that it does not do on the 09-10. Perhaps they will come in the future - I hope so! I see nothing in the advertising that indicates this.
My unit definitely increased off-the-line performance, but pings significantly with 87 octane (tow and extreme) and pings just a little on 93 octane (both tunes as well). My 0-60 was 8.5 on "towing" with 1/4 tank of 87 octane and also 8.5 seconds on a full tank of 93 octane (same stretch of road). It burns the tires now; it didn't burn them when stock on gas, and just a little stock on E85. If the PHP unit doesn't change the transmission either, it seems that the XCAL SCT3 is a better choice.
I just emailed Bill at PHP to clear this up.
Last edited by 2009KR; Oct 18, 2010 at 08:14 PM.
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Response from PHP:
Corey quoting Bill "There are certain parameters in the ECM that are translated to the TCM that affect shifting. While there are no actual "shift changes," there are translated changes to firmness. These are handled in the ECM in the form of estimated torque and torque reduction tables, so when we raise the estimated torque output of the engine, the TCM uses those values and corrects the shifting to accommodate the increased power output. We can't directly change the shift pressures or time or the shift points or torque converter lockup at cruise or WOT."
Corey: "I do believe that Edge expects to update their firmware to accept transmission tuning in the future. FWIW, the files have been done (by Bill, actually); the firmware just doesn’t currently support them."
Corey quoting Bill "There are certain parameters in the ECM that are translated to the TCM that affect shifting. While there are no actual "shift changes," there are translated changes to firmness. These are handled in the ECM in the form of estimated torque and torque reduction tables, so when we raise the estimated torque output of the engine, the TCM uses those values and corrects the shifting to accommodate the increased power output. We can't directly change the shift pressures or time or the shift points or torque converter lockup at cruise or WOT."
Corey: "I do believe that Edge expects to update their firmware to accept transmission tuning in the future. FWIW, the files have been done (by Bill, actually); the firmware just doesn’t currently support them."
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 315
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From: North NJ
From: Edge Tech [tech@edgeproducts.com]
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 12:32
To: XXX
Subject: RE: Edge Products Contact Form
I did some checking and turns out we are working on a few custom options for these trucks. The customer options that will be available are:
WOT Fueling
Idle
Rev Limiter
Speed Limiter
Gear Ratio
Tire Size
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 12:32
To: XXX
Subject: RE: Edge Products Contact Form
I did some checking and turns out we are working on a few custom options for these trucks. The customer options that will be available are:
WOT Fueling
Idle
Rev Limiter
Speed Limiter
Gear Ratio
Tire Size
The way this was written by edge it sounds like Gear Ratio, Tire Size, etc arent even available to be changed on the current CT/CTS model. Was this individual just having a bad "English" day? If he said " the customer options that are currently available on the current models are: " Might imply a little better that these are what the current models come with
Last edited by Timelessr1; Oct 19, 2010 at 08:33 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 643
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From: Waterloo / Cedar Falls, IA
The only additional features they plan to offer are:
WOT Fueling
Idle
Rev Limiter
They have no plans to offer:
WOT (Wide Open Throttle) Shifting
Standard (Std.) Shifting
Shift Firmness
Timing Adjustment
AVG MPG PID (not instantaneous)
In addition, they are working on re-programming the TCM, but they don't know when it will be available.
WOT Fueling
Idle
Rev Limiter
They have no plans to offer:
WOT (Wide Open Throttle) Shifting
Standard (Std.) Shifting
Shift Firmness
Timing Adjustment
AVG MPG PID (not instantaneous)
In addition, they are working on re-programming the TCM, but they don't know when it will be available.
I too am confused as I already see the options for WOT Fueling, Idle, and Rev limiter on my Edge. You can get to them by going to "Program" and create a custom program, they show up under the options menu, at least on mine.
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More information about the transmission from Bill Cohron last night:
"... the CTS does not include the TCM at the moment. There have been some delays in getting the code completed. However, it is in the works and will be available as an update when it is released. Once that's complete, we can handle more involved TCM tuning. This does NOT mean that the transmission is completely overlooked. There are certain functions that we modify that are translated to the TCM and do affect shifting firmness, just not the shift points."
I was glad to hear this!
"... the CTS does not include the TCM at the moment. There have been some delays in getting the code completed. However, it is in the works and will be available as an update when it is released. Once that's complete, we can handle more involved TCM tuning. This does NOT mean that the transmission is completely overlooked. There are certain functions that we modify that are translated to the TCM and do affect shifting firmness, just not the shift points."
I was glad to hear this!
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,390
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Lol.
My 'rant' there: https://www.f150online.com/forums/4370884-post22.html
Should have been here
And - this does not exactly jive either ( excerpted from the famous '2009' thread ):
MGD
My 'rant' there: https://www.f150online.com/forums/4370884-post22.html
Should have been here
And - this does not exactly jive either ( excerpted from the famous '2009' thread ):
...
As for the separate ECM/TCM, it's not a big deal at all. The 6.0L diesel has had the same setup for years and we already know how to handle that. In fact, even the 6.4L and later Expeditions use the 2 module setup. I'm not all that familiar with the Dodge setup, but from what I understand this certainly is much easier to deal with...
As for the separate ECM/TCM, it's not a big deal at all. The 6.0L diesel has had the same setup for years and we already know how to handle that. In fact, even the 6.4L and later Expeditions use the 2 module setup. I'm not all that familiar with the Dodge setup, but from what I understand this certainly is much easier to deal with...
Last edited by MGDfan; Oct 19, 2010 at 07:23 AM.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,074
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From: Beautiful Winder, GA
As far as I can tell, the Edge CTS does not change the transmission at all. It says that it is unlocking and programming the ECM, with no mention of the TCM. I have tried the towing and extreme settings, and see no difference in shifting whatsoever. I know some have said that it firmed up the shifts, but I haven't seen it.
I spoke with Edge today, and they confirmed that there are many customizations that the CTS does on the 97-08 that it does not do on the 09-10. Perhaps they will come in the future - I hope so! I see nothing in the advertising that indicates this.
My unit definitely increased off-the-line performance, but pings significantly with 87 octane (tow and extreme) and pings just a little on 93 octane (both tunes as well). My 0-60 was 8.5 on "towing" with 1/4 tank of 87 octane and also 8.5 seconds on a full tank of 93 octane (same stretch of road). It burns the tires now; it didn't burn them when stock on gas, and just a little stock on E85. If the PHP unit doesn't change the transmission either, it seems that the XCAL SCT3 is a better choice.
I just emailed Bill at PHP to clear this up.
I spoke with Edge today, and they confirmed that there are many customizations that the CTS does on the 97-08 that it does not do on the 09-10. Perhaps they will come in the future - I hope so! I see nothing in the advertising that indicates this.
My unit definitely increased off-the-line performance, but pings significantly with 87 octane (tow and extreme) and pings just a little on 93 octane (both tunes as well). My 0-60 was 8.5 on "towing" with 1/4 tank of 87 octane and also 8.5 seconds on a full tank of 93 octane (same stretch of road). It burns the tires now; it didn't burn them when stock on gas, and just a little stock on E85. If the PHP unit doesn't change the transmission either, it seems that the XCAL SCT3 is a better choice.
I just emailed Bill at PHP to clear this up.
There are certain parameters in the ECM that are translated to the TCM that affect shifting. While there are no actual "shift changes," there are translated changes to firmness. These are handled in the ECM in the form of estimated torque and torque reduction tables, so when we raise the estimated torque output of the engine, the TCM uses those values and corrects the shifting to accommodate the increased power output. We can't directly change the shift pressures or time or the shift points or torque converter lockup at cruise or WOT.
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I'm glad I decided to take a look at this thread. After reading as much as I could about Gryphon/edge programmers, I decided to pull the trigger on on a CS for my 2010 FX4.
Obviously I'm looking for more power and possibly better economy but one of the major reasons I just bought this unit was to improve the factory shift points and overall control of the transmission.
Perhaps I'll be pleasantly surprised and hopefully they will offer these improvements in the near future but right now I'm viewing this as a major let down.
My CS is still in the mail so I'll reserve judgement untill I have it on the truck and have recieved my custom 87 performance tune from PHP.
Hoping for the best.....
Obviously I'm looking for more power and possibly better economy but one of the major reasons I just bought this unit was to improve the factory shift points and overall control of the transmission.
Perhaps I'll be pleasantly surprised and hopefully they will offer these improvements in the near future but right now I'm viewing this as a major let down.
My CS is still in the mail so I'll reserve judgement untill I have it on the truck and have recieved my custom 87 performance tune from PHP.
Hoping for the best.....
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From: Beautiful Winder, GA
Just had a conversation with Bill. Edge is currently testing some firmware updates which will allow the CS/CTS to control shift points. We'll be happy to offer information as it's given to us. 
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From: Among javelinas and scorpions in Zoniestan
- Jack
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This is most definitely great news.....
This thread had me fairly concerned about my new purchase that I thought I had done some pretty sound research on!
Very glad to hear that they're working on the new features
This thread had me fairly concerned about my new purchase that I thought I had done some pretty sound research on!
Very glad to hear that they're working on the new features
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I was happy with this unit until I realized that the TCM wasn't touched. It is amazing that such a little change transformed my truck from a dog off the line to one that wiggles to the side as both tires spin!