Let's talk LiveWire
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Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Austin, Texas
Just to bring everybody up to speed...
I put a new CHT in this morning, and when done, all of the same conditions existed.
That puts the problem squarely on the cluster, or the PCM.
Some unique points:
1. When I first turn the key, before starting, the Temp gauge rises. When I do it when the truck is hot, the temp gauge rises to the hotter position-it really is reading the temp. Then when I start it, it stays where its reading for about 5 seconds, then drops, a beep, then a CHECK GAUGES message.
2. Monitoring the temperature with the LW, it gives actual readings, and rises when the motor gets hot, which means that the LW is getting the signal from the PCM, and the PCM is getting the signal from the CHT.
3. Since the A/C lights and Fan were working, but not the compressor, I took off the clutch plate, and sandwiched two back to back random orbit sanding discs, and then reassembled, to lock up the clutch. So now I have A/C, which is mandatory here in Arizona.
4. I own Three service Manuals, Volume 1, Vol 2, and a Wiring Diagram Manual. To diagnose this problem, I need another one, "POWERTRAIN CONTROL/EMISSIONS MANUAL", and that runs $125. Holy S*%$!
5. I think either the cluster needs reprogramming, or its toast. If so, I'm probably getting a Lariat Cluster, as I already own a EATC I bought on ebay, and I'm going to the junk yard to get the other parts.
Before you say it, NO, you can't get a 4x4, Supercab, Longbed in a Lariat. You have to build your own for 2007.
I put a new CHT in this morning, and when done, all of the same conditions existed.
That puts the problem squarely on the cluster, or the PCM.
Some unique points:
1. When I first turn the key, before starting, the Temp gauge rises. When I do it when the truck is hot, the temp gauge rises to the hotter position-it really is reading the temp. Then when I start it, it stays where its reading for about 5 seconds, then drops, a beep, then a CHECK GAUGES message.
2. Monitoring the temperature with the LW, it gives actual readings, and rises when the motor gets hot, which means that the LW is getting the signal from the PCM, and the PCM is getting the signal from the CHT.
3. Since the A/C lights and Fan were working, but not the compressor, I took off the clutch plate, and sandwiched two back to back random orbit sanding discs, and then reassembled, to lock up the clutch. So now I have A/C, which is mandatory here in Arizona.
4. I own Three service Manuals, Volume 1, Vol 2, and a Wiring Diagram Manual. To diagnose this problem, I need another one, "POWERTRAIN CONTROL/EMISSIONS MANUAL", and that runs $125. Holy S*%$!
5. I think either the cluster needs reprogramming, or its toast. If so, I'm probably getting a Lariat Cluster, as I already own a EATC I bought on ebay, and I'm going to the junk yard to get the other parts.
Before you say it, NO, you can't get a 4x4, Supercab, Longbed in a Lariat. You have to build your own for 2007.
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Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Among javelinas and scorpions in Zoniestan
OK, I'm impressed!
Since the LW shows the actual temperature, which it has to be getting from the CHT sensor via the PCM, it argues that both are good and there is a fault in the cluster.
But, was the LW reading actual temp BEFORE you swapped the CHT sensor? If not, then maybe a CHT sensor failure somehow corrupted the cluster?
And, just to make things more frustrating for you, if you swap out your cluster, your truck will not start due to the PATs key interface in the new cluster. There are several posts on this problem in the electrical forum.
I sure do hope you find your problem soon and I wish I was more help!
- Jack
Since the LW shows the actual temperature, which it has to be getting from the CHT sensor via the PCM, it argues that both are good and there is a fault in the cluster.
But, was the LW reading actual temp BEFORE you swapped the CHT sensor? If not, then maybe a CHT sensor failure somehow corrupted the cluster?
And, just to make things more frustrating for you, if you swap out your cluster, your truck will not start due to the PATs key interface in the new cluster. There are several posts on this problem in the electrical forum.
I sure do hope you find your problem soon and I wish I was more help!
- Jack
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Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Austin, Texas
Yes, the LW was reading the temp before the swap.
But since the dealer recommended replacement of the CHT, and would of booked 6 hours @ $75 per hour + part, AND a $115 Diagnosis fee, they would of locked me into that + whatever really was wrong.
I've not heard of the PATS problem with the cluster. I have read that the keys need to be reprogrammed if you replace the PCM.
Can the Cluster be programmed to match the PCM & Keys?
If the dealer diagnosis a new cluster, they'd have to make it work anyway.
But since the dealer recommended replacement of the CHT, and would of booked 6 hours @ $75 per hour + part, AND a $115 Diagnosis fee, they would of locked me into that + whatever really was wrong.
I've not heard of the PATS problem with the cluster. I have read that the keys need to be reprogrammed if you replace the PCM.
Can the Cluster be programmed to match the PCM & Keys?
If the dealer diagnosis a new cluster, they'd have to make it work anyway.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 797
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From: houston
hey before you go and buy a manual check out this site. i payed 19.95 for a months service to all service manuals. i believe that there are different ones to sign up for. and the fact that they told you 6 hours to pull the intake to change out that sensor that only takes 20 minutes to do.
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdi...ageid=&gutsid=
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdi...ageid=&gutsid=
Thread Starter
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Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Austin, Texas
It took a little more than 20 minutes, and I didn't completely remove the manifold. Disconnecting the pressurized fuel line was the reason. I needed to disconnect the fuel pump power, and run out the gas. Once I had it half apart, I realized it. So I clamped the intake to the Wiper well, and got to the sensor.
Interesting note, I found the anti-knock sensor wire on the passenger side, clamped not once, but twice, THROUGH, the intake manifold gasket. Real attention to detail there.
Thanks for the tip.
Interesting note, I found the anti-knock sensor wire on the passenger side, clamped not once, but twice, THROUGH, the intake manifold gasket. Real attention to detail there.
Thanks for the tip.
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From: Among javelinas and scorpions in Zoniestan
Yes, the LW was reading the temp before the swap.
But since the dealer recommended replacement of the CHT, and would of booked 6 hours @ $75 per hour + part, AND a $115 Diagnosis fee, they would of locked me into that + whatever really was wrong.
I've not heard of the PATS problem with the cluster. I have read that the keys need to be reprogrammed if you replace the PCM.
Can the Cluster be programmed to match the PCM & Keys?
If the dealer diagnosis a new cluster, they'd have to make it work anyway.
But since the dealer recommended replacement of the CHT, and would of booked 6 hours @ $75 per hour + part, AND a $115 Diagnosis fee, they would of locked me into that + whatever really was wrong.
I've not heard of the PATS problem with the cluster. I have read that the keys need to be reprogrammed if you replace the PCM.
Can the Cluster be programmed to match the PCM & Keys?
If the dealer diagnosis a new cluster, they'd have to make it work anyway.
I don't know the specifics of what needs to be reporgrammed and how if you change the cluster. Here's the most recent thread on the subject: https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=334816 It seems to indicate the cluster can be programmed to match the key and the PCM. The one I remembered that was earlier, is here: https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=330753, which indicates you reprogram the keys. BTW, SSCULLY seems to generally give good advice.
Whatever, something's got to be reprogrammed if you do a cluster swap.
Good luck!
- Jack