The "farmers" you are talking about are not the quaint, Mom and Pop kind, they're really the big agricultural conglomernates, tied very closely to companies like Cargill and Archer Daniels Midland. These companies have a powerful lobby in congress and are basically responsible for all of the rules and regulations "enforced" by the USDA. In effect, they make the rules, and those rules work to force the "little" guy out of the farming business.

But, so what? Survival of the fittest, right? So, lets get to rotating crops, which is what used to be done since corn sucks nitrogen out of the soil. Alternating with soybeans or other legumes, which "fix" nitrogen, has been the common process. But, with the price of corn going so high, doesn't it just make sense to simply use fertilizer and grow corn year after year?

Oh and what kind of fertilizer? It's not manure. That stuff is simply dumped into sewege "ponds" near every feedlot in the nation. And, the cattle that are eating the corn products are standing, sleeping and eating in that manure also. Ever wonder why cattle need so many antibiotics now? Wonder how healthy you might be if you had to spend all your days in a 1/2 acre pen with oh, say, 200 other people, and had to walk around or lie down in, your own excrement?

Another thing. Cows are not just fed corn. They're also fed "added nutrients" since corn is nutritionally deficient. We no longer feed cattle "salvaged" cow parts from the cattle that were slaughtered before them. It might give them mad cow disease. So now, we put those "by-products" into chicken feed and hog feed, and then guess what? Some by-products of pig and chicken slaughter houses find ther way into cattle feed. (Gotta get that protein from somewhere.) See a potential problem here?

And, a cow's gut is not naturally set up to process corn. It is PH neutral. Cows do naturally produce E. coli in that gut too. Fortunately for us, our acidic gut seems to kill this E. coli off without much trouble. A good thing too, since E. coli will destroy your kidneys. But, when cattle are fed corn, their gut becomes PH negative, acidic. And, the E. coli that develop in those guts becomes acid-resistant. Are you wondering why you're seeing so many warnings suddenly about eating undercooked meat?

Those same benevolent companies, Cargill and ADM, carefully manage corn at each step. They sell the pesticides and fertilizers to the farmers. They operate most of the grain elevators in the nation. They perform the milling of the corn. They feed the livestock. They slaughter the animals. They distill the ethanol. Who is the true beneficiary of the ethanol craze here? Can you guess who might really be the "voice" behind the National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition?

As far as fertilizer runoff is concerned, if it gets into a river, it's on its way to an ocean.

So, those are my gripes with E85. Please don't get me wrong. I'm a meat-eater. I am NOT a tree-hugger, but I love being out in the "wilds". I would like for my grandchildren to be able to go hunting and fishing when they get to be my age.

So, I've probably hijacked this thread way too much, and you're all tired of it. I'll stop.

- Jack

 

Sorry if i came off like i was attacking you in some way...I agree with many of your points, its just that way to often in my life i come across people who don't respect what most farmers do... I grew up on a smaller farm and ranch and even when living in a smaller community alot of ppl would blame problems on "them darn farmers"....i guess sometimes since i live on a small farm and around a lot of smaller farmers i forget how 90 % of the crops and livestock are raised in this country

 

No, I didn't see it as an attack at all. Sorry if my reaction seemed like I thought it was. I think the farmers in this country get no respect at all and are at the mercy of our wonderful government and the big Ag companies, like ADM and Cargill. The whole situation makes me angry and it takes very little to set me off. The E85 farce is a big trigger.

When I first heard of E85, I thought, "What a great idea"! My next thought was, "Where's all the corn going to come from"? Then, as I studied the subject, I came to realize it was just a smoke screen to support Big Agriculture, and, to make it look like we were doing something to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

There are farmers out there who are trying to farm in a sustainable manner, and they are being "shot down" by the USDA at every turn. Unless they do it the ADM or Cargill way, they're doing it wrong! Since you grew up on a farm, you know the USDA's "one size fits all" approach on how to do the job is just a load of that stuff steers drop when digestion is complete.

So, what we really need to do is support sustainable farming. As a start, buy food at farmers markets - forget the supermarkets. I can guarantee you'll get better quality food and you'll be healthier as a result. It will taste better too.

And here I am on my soap box again! :o

- Jack

 

May as well throw my $.02 into the mix...

A local performance shop has been converting cars/trucks (GM thru 1985-2005 and Ford through 1988-2004) to run on standard gasoline or e85 via a flip-chip.

Through their tuning they have got the fuel mileage loss down to roughly 9% and the performance gains are in the 10 - 12% range.

High performance vehicles will have some additional costs associated with them since they will need to flow more fuel. Higher flow injectors and upgraded fuel pumps are typically all that's needed.

Can check out the info here
http://www.hitechmotorsport.com/inde...d=29&Itemid=42

Be sure to read the "corn snake" article about Mark Norton's 2004 Mustang Cobra running e85 as well (member of our local SVT club).

Who knows what the "long term" effects on the vehicles are... but in the short term, it would appear saying that a gasoline designed car can not run e-85 is a simple ploy by big-oil to continue to rape us with gasoline costs and for the auto-manufacturers to sell more vehicles and have yet another reason to void warranties.

Rod

 

Interesting post Rocklight. Since they're doing this with a "chip", my guess is the same thing could be done with a programmer, such as Bill's Gryphon, that sits in the vehicle and allows you to select one of four different tunes at a whim. Their cost for the device ($800) is a bit of a turnoff, isn't it?

I'm not totally ready to give up on the idea that E85 is corrosive/damaging to non-E85 vehicles though. And, I'm not really ready to buy into any "conspiracy" theory about big oil companies trying to force us to use Middle Eastern oil or car companies trying to void warranties. I'll accept the idea though that car companies would like us to buy new cars.

The reason I don't go for big oil fighting this is that I believe it's "revenue neutral" to them. They make just as much money regardless of the type fuel sold. In fact, if crude oil consumption is reduced, they don't have to spend money on oil exploration.

And, if E85 is not damaging, I'm surprised there hasn't been a huge number of reliable engeneering studies confirming that "fact". The Chemical, Materials Science and Mechanical Engineering departments in our major universities are not just sitting around ignoring this claim. These are independent researchers who are not in anybody's "pocket".

But, if what Hitech Motorsport claims IS true, I'll be happy I have a programmer/tuner combination that can probably take advantage of the situation for the cost of a $50 tune.

- Jack