So, to continue my hijack, wonder how many vehicles are being damaged by that stuff?

It's obvious to me that lots of people would not know they shouldn't use it.

- Jack

 

I agree with your assumption. My son once filled up his 66 Mustang with diesel. He swore up and down that he hadn't. I had to tow it home and drain a full tank of diesel. I bet the E85 mistake will happen.

 

It DOES happen all the time. Working at a Ford dealer in the service department we see that mistake happen, not daily, but monthly. You know it right away - vehicle starts running like crap, the CEL comes on and flashes, etc. Same goes for putting gasoline in a diesel and vice versa.

I've never tried running E85 in my truck, and yes, it is capable. I've heard that your gas mileage drops when you use it so why run it at all??

 

Just so everyone is aware, vehicles manufactured after 1995 are already capable of running up to 10% ethanol, and in most cases, probably are (and you don't even know it!). General guidelines indicate that amounts up to 20% are safe to run without risk of damage to the fuel components or internal engine components, gaskets, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85_in_standard_engines

Most importantly, if you run E85 in a non FFV engine, you do run the risk of voiding your warranty.

The biggest problem, it seems, with running E85 in standard vehicles is obviously the corrosion factor of the ethanol in combination with butyl rubber, magnesium, and other compounds used in the production of the vehicle. Some testing has shown that anhydrous ethanol (water free) has a significantly reduced risk of corrosion and is considered, by some, to be safe in standard vehicles. The issue is that there is no real way to detect exactly how much water content there is in the fuel, so there is always a risk of damaging something.

The tuning capabilities are there for running E85, and we've tested it on some vehicles with reasonable gains in performance, but again, the risk of damage currently outweighs the benefits. The cost to convert the necessary components to run with ethanol makes the project cost-prohibitive. However, if you DO already have a flex-fuel engine, we can write a calibration to get the most from your vehicle.

Hope this helps!

 

Groovy, you're groovy!

Here in Arizona (Aridzona? - we need rain) , our gas pumps are labeled 10% ethanol. I can't speak for other states though.

- Jack

 

e85 vehilces , well atleast fords and the ones that i have seen that are e85, have yellow fuel caps and state e85 on them.

 

hopefully i get my gryphon in the mail by saturday and i'll receive my custom tunes by monday!!!! i can't wait until the tunes and try thme out!

 

Not all of them. Mines got a regular black cap.

 

Good to know Sonic Blue. It lets those folks who bought a "flex-fuel" vehicle know they've got one. Nothing, however, warns the others that their vehicles are not to be fueled with E85.

Here's my gripe: We stopped use of leaded fuel in newer vehicles by making the filler pipe smaller. You could still pour leaded fuel into these things though, from a gas can. Sure, you'd kill the catalytic converter, but unless you were getting emmissions checked, who cared? In fact, you could (and still can) remove the CAT. It didn't kill the engine, you got better mileage and better performance. But, it "poisoned" people.

Now, we introduce a new fuel that looks very attractive! It's cheaper than ordinary gas and it tells us it's better for the environment! In addition, it reduces our dependance on foreign oil. Wow! Win-win!. (This is our protective and benevolent government in action). They even "package" it so you can put it into any engine!

But, if you stick it into a non flex-fuel, engine, you're in for costly repairs. And, regardless of your vehicle, you're going to get much worse gas mileage with this "stuff". So, you're going to burn more gallons of "stuff" to go the same distance! And, if you put it into a vehicle having no warnings - "Don't put E85 in me!", it's going to cause a breakdown.

Then, there's the hidden, but very significant costs of producing this "stuff". Agriculturally, corn is a disaster. It totally ruins the soil it grows in and needs huge ammounts of industrial fertilizer just to reach harvest. That fertilizer is not all absorbed, of course, and runs off into the ocean, where it does further damage.

Then, we have to ferment the corn to produce alchohol. Another process that uses more energy than it produces, which adds to the world's pollution.

So, who's winning here? Why are we even thinking of using this "stuff". Answer: "It seems like a quick solution to our dependence on foreign oil".

There's a better answer of course - engineering! We could produce engines that would perform better on gas, but there's no incentive. We could also utilize alternate technologies such as LNG or electrical solutions.

Something has to happen - soon. The Administration has to be "kicked" into a new mode of thinking by us if this Country (or even the world) is to survive.

In the above diatribe, everywhere you see the word "stuff", substitute the word "crap". It's what E85 is and what we're being told.

- Jack

 

I do my best. I can't take credit for that technical post, though. My brilliant husband was standing over my shoulder dictating.

Where we live in Georgia (is it a STATE law?), our pumps aren't labeled as having 10 percent ethanol, but after asking Billy for some information so that I could answer an e-mail, I found out that they can put in up to 10 percent ethanol and not post it anywhere! That's just so wrong.

(And Georgia's in the midst of a major drought. We haven't been able to use outside water for almost a year. Many businesses are having to close, and lanscapers are up a proverbial creek! If it weren't for weeds, we wouldn't have any greenery in our yard. )

 

California uses a minimum of 5.7 percent ethanol.

 

In California, it is 5.7%.

I called the California Air Resources board and was able to locate this information online.

http://www.energy.ca.gov/ethanol/index.html

WWW.ENERGY.CA.GOV / ETHANOL
ETHANOL As a Transportation Fuel In California

As of January 1, 2004, California completed a transition from methyl tertiary butyl-ether (MTBE) to ethanol as a gasoline oxygenate additive. With most gasoline sold in the state presently containing 5.7 percent ethanol, California is now the largest ethanol fuel market in the United States. About one billion gallons of ethanol are expected to be used in the state's gasoline supply in 2004.

The Energy Commission continues to study the potential for ethanol fuel production and use as part of California's overall strategy to assure adequate transportation energy supplies and reduce dependence on petroleum. In addition to its use as a gasoline blending component, ethanol can also be used as E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline) in flexible fuel vehicles being produced by automakers.

Most of California's current ethanol supply comes from the Midwest U.S. corn-based industry, with a small supply contribution from foreign imports. There are only two small producers of ethanol in California today; however, a number of projects for expanded in state ethanol production are under consideration.

For Fuel Ethanol Price Graphs, please go to:
Last 18 Months
Last 10 Years
Gasoline Components Prices

For more information about ethanol please contact:

Emerging Fuels & Technology Office
Fuels and Transportation Division
California Energy Commission
1516 Ninth Street, MS-44
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone: 916-654-4628

ETHANOL (also know has Ethyl Alcohol or Grain Alcohol, chemical formula CH3CH2OH) is a liquid produced mostly via fermentation and distillation processes from sugar and starch crop feedstock. Advanced processes for producing ethanol from agricultural, forestry and municipal wastes and residues are under development. Ethanol has been used in the U.S. as a gasoline octane enhancer and oxygenate since the 1970s when federal energy tax policy was enacted to encourage domestic production and use of this fuel.

 

www.e85fuel.com will tell you if your vehicle is or isn't compatible. Google "Nation Ethanol Vehicle Coalition" to find out the latest on the corn craze[they have a newsletter]. All you need to know about e85, e30, e20, e10. Egas is a PITA for owners of older boats if you head into egas country. You need to add extra filters and sometimes change out the gas tanks. Ain't this thread hijacking fun but i hope this info helps someone. Oh yeah, thanks Corey and Bill, love my new tunes.

 

Whether you like it or not corn is still going to be grown...E85 has only made corn go up in price, which is a good thing for farmers, also after the corn is "used" you can still feed it to cattle within a certain period of days so its getting double the use....also sorry for polluting your oceans but i have a hard time believing much fertilizer from nebraska and iowa make it into the atlantic or pacific...also alot of ppl use manure to fertilize which again is re-using materials and helping out everyone..also if you rotate crops it helps with keeping the soil good

 

What about all the farmers that have stopped growing other crops because of the high prices of corn and government incentives? It does wonders for grain prices and supplies.

Back to the tunes though - I'm still waiting anxiously for my tunes to arrive from Bill....hopefully they aren't much longer. I've only gone to level 1 on my Gryphon so the change to my custom tunes is that much better.