Need Bill's help
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Need Bill's help
Got my Edge Evo today. 04' F150 w/ 5.4
EEF2400
Bootloader: 2.50.1857
Firmware: 2.50.3657
Calibration: 1.0.3839
Hardware: 7
Serial # : 1010064
RXAQ5AA.HEX
Ok, plugged it in, let it read my HEX code, installed updates like you say to do with Lightning 3, hooked it back up. Loaded level 2. Program installs fine. When you put it in drive the truck goes into Enigine Failsafe mode. Press reset, and it will run but spits and spudders. Runs great on level 1. I did have 2 trouble codes.P0172 and P0175, both rich condition codes. Is it flooding out?
EEF2400
Bootloader: 2.50.1857
Firmware: 2.50.3657
Calibration: 1.0.3839
Hardware: 7
Serial # : 1010064
RXAQ5AA.HEX
Ok, plugged it in, let it read my HEX code, installed updates like you say to do with Lightning 3, hooked it back up. Loaded level 2. Program installs fine. When you put it in drive the truck goes into Enigine Failsafe mode. Press reset, and it will run but spits and spudders. Runs great on level 1. I did have 2 trouble codes.P0172 and P0175, both rich condition codes. Is it flooding out?
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 866
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From: Winder, GA
So after talking with Black Pearl yesterday, we had come to the conclusion that his home-built intake seems to have been the culprit. After reinstalling the original intake, all the problems cleared right up.
Here's something to think about (and I have had a lot of time to think about this over the last week while tuning a really difficult twin turbo Mustang
)...
When you change the intake on the newer vehicles, the MAF sensor is just a little bolt in piece that installs into the intake. Since the MAF is calibrated directly in relation to the diameter/area of the cross section of the intake tube, any changes in size can have significant and adverse effects on the PCM AFR calculations, to the point that the vehicle's performance can suffer severely. The resolution is modify the MAF (Voltage to Airflow) transfer function to correctly reflect the amount of air the engine is ingesting. Keep in mind that not only the size, but the shape and sensor location will all have an effect, so even if the total area was 12.56 square inches (4" diameter tube), an oval shape will flow differently than a circle.
The good new is that once calibrations have been done and tested for specific intakes (AF1, Volant, etc.) those tables are easy to apply to any other calibration with comparable results. I have already done several intakes with consistently favorable results. The only thing I never liked about intakes was the drone that some seemed to exhibit. Newer intakes, however, seem to be a bit sturdier and actually absorb much of the drone, particularly at cruise.
Anyway, just tossing out some random thoughts.
Take care.
Bill
Here's something to think about (and I have had a lot of time to think about this over the last week while tuning a really difficult twin turbo Mustang
)...When you change the intake on the newer vehicles, the MAF sensor is just a little bolt in piece that installs into the intake. Since the MAF is calibrated directly in relation to the diameter/area of the cross section of the intake tube, any changes in size can have significant and adverse effects on the PCM AFR calculations, to the point that the vehicle's performance can suffer severely. The resolution is modify the MAF (Voltage to Airflow) transfer function to correctly reflect the amount of air the engine is ingesting. Keep in mind that not only the size, but the shape and sensor location will all have an effect, so even if the total area was 12.56 square inches (4" diameter tube), an oval shape will flow differently than a circle.
The good new is that once calibrations have been done and tested for specific intakes (AF1, Volant, etc.) those tables are easy to apply to any other calibration with comparable results. I have already done several intakes with consistently favorable results. The only thing I never liked about intakes was the drone that some seemed to exhibit. Newer intakes, however, seem to be a bit sturdier and actually absorb much of the drone, particularly at cruise.
Anyway, just tossing out some random thoughts.
Take care.
Bill
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,390
Likes: 10
Originally Posted by ASEMechanic
So after talking with Black Pearl yesterday, we had come to the conclusion that his home-built intake seems to have been the culprit. After reinstalling the original intake, all the problems cleared right up.
Here's something to think about (and I have had a lot of time to think about this over the last week while tuning a really difficult twin turbo Mustang )...
When you change the intake on the newer vehicles, the MAF sensor is just a little bolt in piece that installs into the intake. Since the MAF is calibrated directly in relation to the diameter/area of the cross section of the intake tube, any changes in size can have significant and adverse effects on the PCM AFR calculations, to the point that the vehicle's performance can suffer severely. The resolution is modify the MAF (Voltage to Airflow) transfer function to correctly reflect the amount of air the engine is ingesting. Keep in mind that not only the size, but the shape and sensor location will all have an effect, so even if the total area was 12.56 square inches (4" diameter tube), an oval shape will flow differently than a circle.
The good new is that once calibrations have been done and tested for specific intakes (AF1, Volant, etc.) those tables are easy to apply to any other calibration with comparable results. I have already done several intakes with consistently favorable results. The only thing I never liked about intakes was the drone that some seemed to exhibit. Newer intakes, however, seem to be a bit sturdier and actually absorb much of the drone, particularly at cruise.
Anyway, just tossing out some random thoughts.
Take care.
Bill
Here's something to think about (and I have had a lot of time to think about this over the last week while tuning a really difficult twin turbo Mustang
)...When you change the intake on the newer vehicles, the MAF sensor is just a little bolt in piece that installs into the intake. Since the MAF is calibrated directly in relation to the diameter/area of the cross section of the intake tube, any changes in size can have significant and adverse effects on the PCM AFR calculations, to the point that the vehicle's performance can suffer severely. The resolution is modify the MAF (Voltage to Airflow) transfer function to correctly reflect the amount of air the engine is ingesting. Keep in mind that not only the size, but the shape and sensor location will all have an effect, so even if the total area was 12.56 square inches (4" diameter tube), an oval shape will flow differently than a circle.
The good new is that once calibrations have been done and tested for specific intakes (AF1, Volant, etc.) those tables are easy to apply to any other calibration with comparable results. I have already done several intakes with consistently favorable results. The only thing I never liked about intakes was the drone that some seemed to exhibit. Newer intakes, however, seem to be a bit sturdier and actually absorb much of the drone, particularly at cruise.
Anyway, just tossing out some random thoughts.
Take care.
Bill
And we will STILL have folks doing shade-tree adhoc intake mods without so much as a clue w.r.t consequences - despite the info being a simple search away ..... *sigh*
One thing to add - some intakes require more than one different MAF TF value files (and some other changes - ETC for example), for use depending upon the specific vehicle - strange, but there it is .... alignment of the planets perhaps .... lol
bubba
Last edited by MGDfan; Nov 4, 2007 at 09:49 AM.
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And we will STILL have folks doing shade-tree adhoc intake mods without so much as a clue w.r.t consequences - despite the info being a simple search away ..... *sigh*
Yeah, I know. I read alot of posts on here about not doing that. However, I am am a Tool and Die maker. This is what I do. It is in my nature to want to build stuff like this. I understand where you come from with the "shade-tree stuff. I did alot of research and thought I had I had a good plan together. Not just hacking off some pvc drilling holes in it. Everything is machined and TIG welded. Looks great. It worked great before I put the Evo in. I told Bill I want to do some custom tunes some time, maybe we can work on it.
Yeah, I know. I read alot of posts on here about not doing that. However, I am am a Tool and Die maker. This is what I do. It is in my nature to want to build stuff like this. I understand where you come from with the "shade-tree stuff. I did alot of research and thought I had I had a good plan together. Not just hacking off some pvc drilling holes in it. Everything is machined and TIG welded. Looks great. It worked great before I put the Evo in. I told Bill I want to do some custom tunes some time, maybe we can work on it.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,390
Likes: 10
Hi.
Sorry if you took my lament personally. Not my intent.
Just a generality, as, despite appearances - you could indeed fabricate a great-looking intake out of high-end material, welded flawlessly, and still throw off the TF.
It's the little things that are not immediately apparent, intuitively obvious, or don't appear relevant, that can bite you.
For example, you'd think that just by installing an MIT (Airraid's tube only, stock airbox) would be benign. Nope - on some trucks, they skew the TF enough that correction is required...and the MAF isn't even touched....
Heck - even some well-known aftermarket full intake kits have this problem! And for them I show no mercy, for they are flat misleading their customers with BS and shoddy R&D, just to make a buck. That, to me, is just reprehensible and irresponsible.
I am sincerely glad you got your issues resolved. Bill is a wonder
.
MGD
Sorry if you took my lament personally. Not my intent.
Just a generality, as, despite appearances - you could indeed fabricate a great-looking intake out of high-end material, welded flawlessly, and still throw off the TF.
It's the little things that are not immediately apparent, intuitively obvious, or don't appear relevant, that can bite you.
For example, you'd think that just by installing an MIT (Airraid's tube only, stock airbox) would be benign. Nope - on some trucks, they skew the TF enough that correction is required...and the MAF isn't even touched....
Heck - even some well-known aftermarket full intake kits have this problem! And for them I show no mercy, for they are flat misleading their customers with BS and shoddy R&D, just to make a buck. That, to me, is just reprehensible and irresponsible.
I am sincerely glad you got your issues resolved. Bill is a wonder
. MGD
Last edited by MGDfan; Nov 4, 2007 at 09:54 AM.
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Yeah, no hard feelings by no means. Obviously I have no means to know how something will flow, and know even less about how the MAF measures incoming air. Never would have dreamed it was that sensitive. Oh well, you live and learn.
Your Kind Opinion Please for a new 4.6L owner
Bill,
I'm a newby with a 2 week old 07 FX2 Sport 4.6L. After reviewing this forum for hours and actually asking some vendors for suggestions, I think it's clear that YOU are the man. Instead of polling the vendors, I am kindly asking for your opinion on the best setup to use, especially since I'm starting from scratch. the 4.6L is a DOG, sorry guys, but it is. I bought it with fuel efficiency in mind and I think I mad a mistake. What can I do? I want to install a Cat-Back exhaust and a cold Air Intake/Throttle body, but it seems that a TUNE may be in my future after reading all of these posts.
Again, I humbly ask your professional opinion and already appreciate what you provide to this forum.
Kevin
I'm a newby with a 2 week old 07 FX2 Sport 4.6L. After reviewing this forum for hours and actually asking some vendors for suggestions, I think it's clear that YOU are the man. Instead of polling the vendors, I am kindly asking for your opinion on the best setup to use, especially since I'm starting from scratch. the 4.6L is a DOG, sorry guys, but it is. I bought it with fuel efficiency in mind and I think I mad a mistake. What can I do? I want to install a Cat-Back exhaust and a cold Air Intake/Throttle body, but it seems that a TUNE may be in my future after reading all of these posts. Again, I humbly ask your professional opinion and already appreciate what you provide to this forum.
Kevin
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,824
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From: North Huntingdon,Pa.
?
Originally Posted by kevsahl
Bill,
I'm a newby with a 2 week old 07 FX2 Sport 4.6L. After reviewing this forum for hours and actually asking some vendors for suggestions, I think it's clear that YOU are the man. Instead of polling the vendors, I am kindly asking for your opinion on the best setup to use, especially since I'm starting from scratch. the 4.6L is a DOG, sorry guys, but it is. I bought it with fuel efficiency in mind and I think I mad a mistake. What can I do? I want to install a Cat-Back exhaust and a cold Air Intake/Throttle body, but it seems that a TUNE may be in my future after reading all of these posts.
Again, I humbly ask your professional opinion and already appreciate what you provide to this forum.
Kevin
I'm a newby with a 2 week old 07 FX2 Sport 4.6L. After reviewing this forum for hours and actually asking some vendors for suggestions, I think it's clear that YOU are the man. Instead of polling the vendors, I am kindly asking for your opinion on the best setup to use, especially since I'm starting from scratch. the 4.6L is a DOG, sorry guys, but it is. I bought it with fuel efficiency in mind and I think I mad a mistake. What can I do? I want to install a Cat-Back exhaust and a cold Air Intake/Throttle body, but it seems that a TUNE may be in my future after reading all of these posts. Again, I humbly ask your professional opinion and already appreciate what you provide to this forum.
Kevin
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 797
Likes: 1
From: houston
Originally Posted by kevsahl
Bill,
I'm a newby with a 2 week old 07 FX2 Sport 4.6L. After reviewing this forum for hours and actually asking some vendors for suggestions, I think it's clear that YOU are the man. Instead of polling the vendors, I am kindly asking for your opinion on the best setup to use, especially since I'm starting from scratch. the 4.6L is a DOG, sorry guys, but it is. I bought it with fuel efficiency in mind and I think I mad a mistake. What can I do? I want to install a Cat-Back exhaust and a cold Air Intake/Throttle body, but it seems that a TUNE may be in my future after reading all of these posts.
Again, I humbly ask your professional opinion and already appreciate what you provide to this forum.
Kevin
I'm a newby with a 2 week old 07 FX2 Sport 4.6L. After reviewing this forum for hours and actually asking some vendors for suggestions, I think it's clear that YOU are the man. Instead of polling the vendors, I am kindly asking for your opinion on the best setup to use, especially since I'm starting from scratch. the 4.6L is a DOG, sorry guys, but it is. I bought it with fuel efficiency in mind and I think I mad a mistake. What can I do? I want to install a Cat-Back exhaust and a cold Air Intake/Throttle body, but it seems that a TUNE may be in my future after reading all of these posts. Again, I humbly ask your professional opinion and already appreciate what you provide to this forum.
Kevin
Need HELP improving 07 4.6L Performance
Originally Posted by openclasspro#11
with 15+ years of r&d on f150's- mike troyer is the man
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 866
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From: Winder, GA
Kevin,
Sorry about getting back so late. Being out of town certainly has its disadvantages, like limited internet availablility. I really should quit being a cheapskate and get Sprint Mobile... haa haa haa!
Anyway, going with a tuner is going to give you the biggest bang for your buck. The 4.6L does suffer horribly, especilly when you find that the 5.4L get just about the same fuel economy. (Sorry, didn't mean to rub salt in an already sore wound!) There are a number of reputable vendors on here that can provide you with quality programming and obviously the local favorite is Mike Troyer. Everyone seems to be pleased with his tuning. I doubt you could go wrong there.
Best of luck.
Bill
Sorry about getting back so late. Being out of town certainly has its disadvantages, like limited internet availablility. I really should quit being a cheapskate and get Sprint Mobile... haa haa haa!
Anyway, going with a tuner is going to give you the biggest bang for your buck. The 4.6L does suffer horribly, especilly when you find that the 5.4L get just about the same fuel economy. (Sorry, didn't mean to rub salt in an already sore wound!) There are a number of reputable vendors on here that can provide you with quality programming and obviously the local favorite is Mike Troyer. Everyone seems to be pleased with his tuning. I doubt you could go wrong there.
Best of luck.
Bill