XCal 2 Question
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01-20-2006, 08:29 PM
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XCal 2 Question
I'm wondering what true RWHP gains people are actually getting with the XCal 2.,or any of the tuners for that matter. Anybody actually dyno before and after? I believe that some are saying 40 RWHP gains with the XCal 2.
I was at the local dyno shop and they are a SCT certified dealer. They said on my 2005 Screw w/ 5.4 I could expect about a 15 rwhp gain and they thought that was pretty good.
I'm confused. Quite a difference, so I'm wondering what people are actually seeing.
Jon
I was at the local dyno shop and they are a SCT certified dealer. They said on my 2005 Screw w/ 5.4 I could expect about a 15 rwhp gain and they thought that was pretty good.
I'm confused. Quite a difference, so I'm wondering what people are actually seeing.
Jon
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01-20-2006, 08:37 PM
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01-20-2006, 08:47 PM
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#6
01-21-2006, 06:01 PM
Former Sponsor
Hello Jon,
In general, I would say that only getting a 15 RWHP gain on these 5.4 3V's is a very poor result. We've never had one gain that little, but then we've specialized in tuning F-150's longer than anyone else, 14+ years now.
What you need to remember is that just because some shop is an "XYZ "certified" dealer, that means absolutely nothing whatsoever with regard to their capabilities - nothing.There are great tuners, and there are very poor "tooners" who are a complete joke and an insult to the word "tuner," and everything in between, and you find that entire range no matter what product they are using to tune. So you will come across anything from great to poor tuners using any product. The product or affiliation does NOT make the tuner - it's the individual tuner's *expertise on a specific platform* that matters.
Just because someone has something that allows them to make changes to the PCM's program, no matter whose product it is, does not make them a good tuner - not by a long shot. We've seen some that can't get half our results, and we've seen a few who could come close, and others who will do anything to a vehicle to try to make the biggest dyno number they can, and don't' care what happens to the vehicle long-term as a result.
We've never seen anyone exceed what we do on these vehicles in a **safe & sustainable** manner. It all gets down to what is actually obtainable on each individual vehicle without compromising long-term durability, and we have specialized in the F-150 platform for a very long time. We are well known for our results on a lot of different FoMoCo vehicles, but especially the F-150 platform, that is what we specialize in - to the point that we are literally hired by some of the largest chipmakers to assist them with their work, as well as asked to provide tuning for some very large major name companies that make other products but sell tuners as an adjunct, and we also R&D other types of performance products for these vehicles.
It's a mistake to try to say every example of any given vehicle with the same engine should make the same power - nobody with real experience would do that, especially in these late-model F-150's. You might get 16 in a row that are pretty consistent, and then out of the next 13, 7 that act very differently from the rest, and from each other. Some of these late-model F-150's run dead lean from the factory, and in those cases we've seen gains of almost 50 horsepower at the rear wheels, as has been posted here by the vehicle owners themselves - while others are running like they should stock,and we'll see anywhere from a low of about 25 to about 35 horsepower at the rear wheels as a rough average range. And all it takes some practice with the SEARCH feature's filters to find many posts with before & after dyno numbers of our tuning right here - there have certainly been plenty of our customers post that exact info here.
The point being, nobody can tell you "I'm going to get you XX HP on your vehicle." Nobody can do that. All that the best tuners in the world can do is to tune a vehicle and get the most out of it they can and still keep it safe & without compromising it's long-term durability - and then whatever it makes is what it makes - though I can say with authority that gaining only 15 RWHP on a bone-stock 5.4 3V F-150 is an extremely weak result, and one that we have never seen with among just the hundreds upon hundreds of new body style 5.4 3V F-150's alone that we have custom-tuned.
So yes, we have seen gains of almost 50 RWHP from our custom tuning on some of these 5.4 3V F-150's, but that tends to the be the exception rather than the rule, or anything you can reasonably expect on a consistent basis. The range with our custom tuning tends to average more like 30 RWHP, with some hitting almost 50 HP gains, and some getting only 25 HP gains at the rear wheels. It depends not only on the dyno we're using, but also on each individual vehicle - these late-model F-150's can vary a good deal.
So there's no telling what you will gain, other than to say that you will gain power in an amount that is commensurate with things like who is doing the actual tuning and what their expertise level is on this particular F-150 platform, and how that particular F-150 is running from the factory, etc.
I hope that gives you a better idea of what we have to deal with and what is possible, what is representative, etc., and this perspective is coming from we who have custom-tuned more computer-controlled F-150's than anyone else in the aftermarket.
In general, I would say that only getting a 15 RWHP gain on these 5.4 3V's is a very poor result. We've never had one gain that little, but then we've specialized in tuning F-150's longer than anyone else, 14+ years now.
What you need to remember is that just because some shop is an "XYZ "certified" dealer, that means absolutely nothing whatsoever with regard to their capabilities - nothing.There are great tuners, and there are very poor "tooners" who are a complete joke and an insult to the word "tuner," and everything in between, and you find that entire range no matter what product they are using to tune. So you will come across anything from great to poor tuners using any product. The product or affiliation does NOT make the tuner - it's the individual tuner's *expertise on a specific platform* that matters.
Just because someone has something that allows them to make changes to the PCM's program, no matter whose product it is, does not make them a good tuner - not by a long shot. We've seen some that can't get half our results, and we've seen a few who could come close, and others who will do anything to a vehicle to try to make the biggest dyno number they can, and don't' care what happens to the vehicle long-term as a result.
We've never seen anyone exceed what we do on these vehicles in a **safe & sustainable** manner. It all gets down to what is actually obtainable on each individual vehicle without compromising long-term durability, and we have specialized in the F-150 platform for a very long time. We are well known for our results on a lot of different FoMoCo vehicles, but especially the F-150 platform, that is what we specialize in - to the point that we are literally hired by some of the largest chipmakers to assist them with their work, as well as asked to provide tuning for some very large major name companies that make other products but sell tuners as an adjunct, and we also R&D other types of performance products for these vehicles.
It's a mistake to try to say every example of any given vehicle with the same engine should make the same power - nobody with real experience would do that, especially in these late-model F-150's. You might get 16 in a row that are pretty consistent, and then out of the next 13, 7 that act very differently from the rest, and from each other. Some of these late-model F-150's run dead lean from the factory, and in those cases we've seen gains of almost 50 horsepower at the rear wheels, as has been posted here by the vehicle owners themselves - while others are running like they should stock,and we'll see anywhere from a low of about 25 to about 35 horsepower at the rear wheels as a rough average range. And all it takes some practice with the SEARCH feature's filters to find many posts with before & after dyno numbers of our tuning right here - there have certainly been plenty of our customers post that exact info here.
The point being, nobody can tell you "I'm going to get you XX HP on your vehicle." Nobody can do that. All that the best tuners in the world can do is to tune a vehicle and get the most out of it they can and still keep it safe & without compromising it's long-term durability - and then whatever it makes is what it makes - though I can say with authority that gaining only 15 RWHP on a bone-stock 5.4 3V F-150 is an extremely weak result, and one that we have never seen with among just the hundreds upon hundreds of new body style 5.4 3V F-150's alone that we have custom-tuned.
So yes, we have seen gains of almost 50 RWHP from our custom tuning on some of these 5.4 3V F-150's, but that tends to the be the exception rather than the rule, or anything you can reasonably expect on a consistent basis. The range with our custom tuning tends to average more like 30 RWHP, with some hitting almost 50 HP gains, and some getting only 25 HP gains at the rear wheels. It depends not only on the dyno we're using, but also on each individual vehicle - these late-model F-150's can vary a good deal.
So there's no telling what you will gain, other than to say that you will gain power in an amount that is commensurate with things like who is doing the actual tuning and what their expertise level is on this particular F-150 platform, and how that particular F-150 is running from the factory, etc.
I hope that gives you a better idea of what we have to deal with and what is possible, what is representative, etc., and this perspective is coming from we who have custom-tuned more computer-controlled F-150's than anyone else in the aftermarket.
#7
01-21-2006, 11:51 PM
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#8
01-22-2006, 01:50 AM
Troyer Performance has an excellent reputation for customer service. Even though I do not post that often, I do read almost all posts to see what others have to write about and have seen Mike post often and help all of those with questions. I bought an X-Cal1 from TP and now I am upgrading tp X-Cal2 and getting a very good deal from TP. So I think you should give some thought to customer service also and just not horsepower numbers.
Just make sure you do what is best for you after you have done all the research.
Kevin
Just make sure you do what is best for you after you have done all the research.
Kevin
#9
01-23-2006, 11:45 AM
Former Sponsor
HI Jon,
You're very welcome, of course - one last point, and that is, please do not take what I posted in any way as saying anything negative about your local people there - they may be able to do a fine job!
My point was simply that a 15 RWHP gain on a 5.4 3V is not what I would call an acceptable result from proper tuning, you should see significantly more than that on these vehicles.
Good luck!
You're very welcome, of course - one last point, and that is, please do not take what I posted in any way as saying anything negative about your local people there - they may be able to do a fine job!
My point was simply that a 15 RWHP gain on a 5.4 3V is not what I would call an acceptable result from proper tuning, you should see significantly more than that on these vehicles.
Good luck!