So....whats the best intake to get for my F150

 

 

YES

 

BINGO *the opposite has been PROVEN to be true* according to TP's R&D

 

Ummm... This is really not going anywhere, guys, and is becoming somewhat banal.

Theory is theory - and good ol' Chris Columbus.. well imagine his surprise when he didn't fall off the end of the flat earth, as was the predominate theory at the time . "Dat sucker, she's a-round", he exclaimed! He proved it in his 'real world' . [This is probably a bastardization of History, but you get the drift].

Yup - cold air = denser air. But to take that out of context and plug it into this set of conditions, where it is but one factor out of many, in this application, it becomes a minor player in a complex system that defines the air intake & it's role in engine operation - make no mistake - it is complex. Whether you believe that or not, does not alter the fact that it's true.

Mike is like Chris. And don't think for a moment that the hood was up - that's doing a disservice to a man who could teach us all about proper testing methodology.

Also - lest I forget:

Can we all go home now, have a cold one, and stay friends?

Cheers!
Grog put AF1 on cave vent!

 

yep

 

No, we must not have beers and be friends until a few folks understand simple concepts of the internal combustion engine!!!

And as for the AF1 peaking with it's 25hp at 3k... 3k isn't down low, that's more than ½ way to peak power. Point is, buy the time the engine spools up to 3k it's already sucked the hot air from the bay we are trying to avoid. Its power down low we wish to optomize by giving it cool, fresh air...

Just because it's not proven doesn't make it bogus. Your not able to breath in space, but since no one has actually popped off their space helmets and tested this theory, is it not true?

 

The opposite has not be proven yet.There is some test data that tells us something but since we do not know the circumstances and/or conditions of the actual test the data means nothing, just numbers with no conclusions...

That is what I am going to do this weekend. It will be a very simple test. I will record IAT temps with the hood open and the stock air intake disconnected to suck in the air from the engine compartment.

I will then close the hood to allow it to suck in the hotter air from the engine compartment.

Most, if not all manufactures, of open element intakes do their testing with the hoods open. That is a bogus test because it does not similate reality at all.

I will similate reality with a "real world" test which is what 100% of the people see every single day, you know everyone that drives around with their hoods closed at stop signs, stop lights, and normal driving...

Just give me till this weekend and let the data state what it states, good, bad or ugly I will give you the data AND the actual circumstances and conditions of the test. That way people can judge for themselves...

 

We don't have to be friends and have beers until a few goobers understand the difference between FACT and OPINION.

Cooler air= more power. FACT.
More air=more power. FACT.
A true cold air intake will provide cooler air and more power than the AF1 in the 04+ 3v 5.4L trucks. OPINION.

Do you have any idea how long it takes the engine to spool to 3k? Try watching this clip. 0-60 run Do you see how long it takes to reach 3k? Do you notice the RPM after the 1-2 shift? I think that 3k RPM gain is pretty significant.

OK. So using your logic, there is no need to test a new CAI system. YOU could design a CAI system for these trucks that would provide cooler air AND more power than the AF1 does. YOU would just bring it to market WITHOUT doing any testing. NO need to test it and prove it because it's just common sense right? The CAI manufacturers just waste their money actually testing them vs. just going on your THEORY.

 

So everyone else's testing must be flawed? I trust the results of Mike T's testing. He has far more experience in testing than any of us here, and I'm sure knows how to isolate the variables.

The debate is whether a true CAI will provide more power than the AF1 in ALL situations, not whether the IATs will be higher with the hood up or down. Your "test" does nothing to prove that.

How do you know this? Is this a guess? Do you have some inside information for most on the manufacturers that says this, or is this just more blind speculation?

I'm going to take Mike T's advice and leave those of you that only wish to discredit TP alone. Have a nice day.

 

I'm gonna lose it. It's like typing to a brick wall!!!! Stop turning this into a AF1 vs the world debate!!! Last time kids: IF you have TWO equal intake setups.... the one drawing significantly cooler air creates more power.

 

I lost it a long time ago - interest, that is. But hell, one more time, 'cause I feel all pissy

Two things - (probably a waste of time):

1. "significantly cooler air" <-- useless without quantification

2. "more power" <-- useless without observable improvements in practice, based upon the quantification above.

In other words, the amount of difference in the observable temperatures IN PRACTICE, is NOT significant enough to provide enough of a benefit to make any difference. We are not talking about summer/winter, we are talking about same day, same truck, same track, different intakes ( CAI vs non-CAI)

01 XLT Sport's weekend measurements will likely show a variation - but it's significance w.r.t. performance will be negligable.

I have another adage:

"A Difference that makes no Difference, IS no Difference"

This has always been true in the real world, outside of a purely academic /intellectual discussion, where this should remain.

Don't wanna be friends? Your loss.

Mike's gotta be rolling on the floor, watching the antics of you guys - like Sumo wrestlers with loose underwear, in a mudhole ...

Cheers!
Grog
Grog know squat, except how to squat

 

You guys need to start a cold air intake vs. open filter thread and stop this mess.

This thread was supposed to analyze whether or not K&N is a valid and quieter replacement for AF1 even though it might not make the same amount of power.

STOP WITH THE COLD AIR INTAKE VS. OPEN FILTER CRAP!!!!!!

 

Yeah. and not in the "Chips" forum

Suggestions: "Moaning Rhino" or "Mods I don't wanna Hear"

 

”don’t think for a moment” is not a known circumstance or condition. When you want accurate data you never look at data and then ”think” how a condition may have been, you need to KNOW exactly what the circumstance and condition was in order to reach a “logical” and “correct” conclusion…

I never stated anybodies testing was flawed. I stated that UNLESS someone knows ALL the circumstances and conditions of a test they can NOT “logically” or “correctly” come to any conclusions, it’s a simple as that.

A vehicles hood being open or closed is a VITAL piece of information to form a “logical” and “correct” conclusion of what any test data may tell you, in regards to what kind of horsepower and torque gains will “actually” be seen in the “real world” from an open element air intake system. It’s the simplest engineering logic to understand…

So, now I offer to do some testing, some “real world” testing to prove a few points and a few already want to try and spin it as not going to mean much anyway.

That is kind of ironic, and as Mike would say, some real nonsense. First these few absolutely believe any data thrown in front without first ever knowing all the circumstances and conditions the data was collected and then all of a sudden when someone comes along to prove some very simple principles its now not so important, or better yet, if it goes to prove what I have stated it will be basically useless…

Sorry, either you believe the data or you don’t, and better yet if you believe the data you shouldn’t believe it until you know ALL the circumstances and conditions that data was collected in…

I will give you ALL the circumstances and conditions my data is collected in and you can be the judge…

I think I will post the data in the Lightning forum since there are many more performance oriented people that frequent that forum. Granted, my data won’t mean much in the larger scheme of things since air intake systems are not a big bang for the buck item to purchase, but nonetheless you may find some more “real world” information…

I will post the link to the “Data” thread in the Lightning forum in this thread…