Superchip or Hypertech programmer
#1
01-04-2001 | 08:17 PM
Thread Starter
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 250
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From: Davis, Ca USA
Superchip or Hypertech programmer
After wading through all the recent chip wars (and dropping my $0.02 here and there)I'm still interested in a chip. My question is, for the money, is the Hypertech programmer better (since you can re-program your stock chip as you see fit) verses the superchip and having to send it back for re-programming (is there an additional cost here? Something Mike can answer). Will the hypertech programmer give a boost througout the RPM range like the superchip? Will I get 25 mpg out of my 5.4L? 
(ok sorry but I felt like being a smartass). Any information/advice/experiences would be appreciated (good or bad, but please no big debates the statistical significance of +/- 1 mpg is not important to me, thanks).
On the personal side, if we all spent as much energy and time in our great debates here over chips and such as we could into pushing our state representatives to force oil companies to get rid of MTBE formulated gas (MTBE makes a great solvent, but is extremely hard to get out of groundwater and is fairly hazardous to our health, plus doesn't oxygenate well). The only reason the oil company uses it to oxygenate is because MTBE is a byproduct of oil refining, but other better compounds (better being oxygenates more effectively and has fewer environmental and human health problems) like ethanol and tetrahydrofuran (both can be derived from ag waste, which the oil companies don't like, takes money away from there price gouging).
Just had to vent a bit.
------------------
2000 2W F150 (Flareside Black ExCab) 5.4L with K&N FIPK,Flowmaster Delta 40, Twin dual 3" pipes out the back, Stock Ford Sport 17" Rims
(ok sorry but I felt like being a smartass). Any information/advice/experiences would be appreciated (good or bad, but please no big debates the statistical significance of +/- 1 mpg is not important to me, thanks).On the personal side, if we all spent as much energy and time in our great debates here over chips and such as we could into pushing our state representatives to force oil companies to get rid of MTBE formulated gas (MTBE makes a great solvent, but is extremely hard to get out of groundwater and is fairly hazardous to our health, plus doesn't oxygenate well). The only reason the oil company uses it to oxygenate is because MTBE is a byproduct of oil refining, but other better compounds (better being oxygenates more effectively and has fewer environmental and human health problems) like ethanol and tetrahydrofuran (both can be derived from ag waste, which the oil companies don't like, takes money away from there price gouging).
Just had to vent a bit.
------------------
2000 2W F150 (Flareside Black ExCab) 5.4L with K&N FIPK,Flowmaster Delta 40, Twin dual 3" pipes out the back, Stock Ford Sport 17" Rims
#2
01-05-2001 | 01:23 PM
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
Hi 5150PhD,
OK, here is my obviously biased point of view, but I'll try to keep it factual......
The key differences between the Superchip's programming and that of the Hypertech unit are the fact that the Hypertech unit only adds power at wide-open throttle, the rest of the time it does nothing for power. Hypertech also programs all these vehicles "generically", I.E., only 1 program for all 1998 4.6 automatics, for example, whereas we make a different program for each one of the 80-150 different factory programs each model year for the F-150.
So with the Superchip, you get a program that works *all* the time, adding power at any throttle position, and a program that is made specifically for your vehicle, versus the Hypertech that only adds power at wide-open throttle, and is made generically, compromised to run on all similar vehicles.
The way the Superchip is programmed not only gets you power gains at any throttle position, but more total power is gained. The only way you can really optimize powertrain programming is by programming for each different software revision, as different functions are all in different locations from one program to the next, and programming "generically" cannot get the same quality of results as programming specifically for the exact software revision does. It puts a huge R&D load on Superchips, but it's the only way to properly optimize your powertrain programming.
Interestingly, we've had the same type of hand-held programmers that Hypertech sells for years now for the GM's, that type of device is nothing new for us, GM"s have requried this type of device since 1996, and even earlier for a few models. We don't release it for the Fords simply because it's a lot more expensive, just like the Hypertech unit is, there are no additional power gains, and it's not needed by virtue of the Ford computer's design.
To return to stock, all you need to do is remove the Superchip, which takes maybe 30 seconds to a minute or so. So you don't have to go thru a process of re-loading your factory program.
Hypertech has had problems with their Power Programmers over the years, including recently. They have problems sometimes with not getting the program fully uploaded into the ECU, with the unit stalling or loosing it's communication protocol in mid-stream. A number of people have called us and told us that they have been left without being able to start their vehicle until it's reloaded by a dealership as a result. I don't mean to say that this is prevelant or to knock them, just that we hear that kind of feedback from users who have returned them and gone with the Superchip.
The only real advantage that the Hypertech unit offers, when it works right, is the ability to re-calibrate the speedometer in a limited number of these vehicles, and the fact that you don't have to clean the connector on the back of the computer like you do to install the Superchip. Though sometimes it works in reverse, adding to the speedometer error instead of correcting it. That is something that is currently in R&D with just about every chipmaker, including us. We have a good number of the codes knocked out for speedo calibrations, but because we are code-specific, it is a time-consuming process to get them all done correctly. FOrd uses several different mothods of recalibrating the speedo in the program itself, it's not consistent, which may be why the Hypertech unit has those problems with some vehicles. And of course there are some F-150 codes that we can't do speedo calibrations on yet, either, that is an on-going R&D project.
Anytime we've had someone here on F-150 Online who has used both the Hypertech and the Superchip on the same vehicle, they have always preferred the Superchip's program. The difference between getting power gains only on full-throttle or getting them at any throttle position makes all the difference in the world in overall driveability, coupled with the program being made specifically for each code in each vehicle, most people are very happy with the Superchip.
As far as having to send the Superchip back in for reprogramming, that is only needed if you want a custom program, as the Superchip already includes everything except the speedo calibration. If you need a speedo calibration, then that is a custom program, but you don't need to send your Superchip back in and wait, what we do is have the program made, send you out another Superchip so you don't have to be without it, and then when you get your new one, you send your original back to us, that's how we normally do it here at Performance these days. Other than the speedo calibrations when they work, the Hypertech unit does not offer any options that aren't already in the Superchip's program, and it's considerably more expensive of course.
Basically what we have here is 2 different methods of getting the new program into the ECU; therefore, in my opinion, it really becomes a matter of the quality of the programming itself, as that is what controls your powertrain of course, and how you get that program into the computer doesn't matter. If Hypertech had superior programing ability, we'd be marketing their products instead, we don't care what the name on the box is, just how good the program inside is.
This is just a little food for thought, coming from someone who has an obvious bias.
Best of luck whatever you decide,
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
OK, here is my obviously biased point of view, but I'll try to keep it factual......
The key differences between the Superchip's programming and that of the Hypertech unit are the fact that the Hypertech unit only adds power at wide-open throttle, the rest of the time it does nothing for power. Hypertech also programs all these vehicles "generically", I.E., only 1 program for all 1998 4.6 automatics, for example, whereas we make a different program for each one of the 80-150 different factory programs each model year for the F-150.
So with the Superchip, you get a program that works *all* the time, adding power at any throttle position, and a program that is made specifically for your vehicle, versus the Hypertech that only adds power at wide-open throttle, and is made generically, compromised to run on all similar vehicles.
The way the Superchip is programmed not only gets you power gains at any throttle position, but more total power is gained. The only way you can really optimize powertrain programming is by programming for each different software revision, as different functions are all in different locations from one program to the next, and programming "generically" cannot get the same quality of results as programming specifically for the exact software revision does. It puts a huge R&D load on Superchips, but it's the only way to properly optimize your powertrain programming.
Interestingly, we've had the same type of hand-held programmers that Hypertech sells for years now for the GM's, that type of device is nothing new for us, GM"s have requried this type of device since 1996, and even earlier for a few models. We don't release it for the Fords simply because it's a lot more expensive, just like the Hypertech unit is, there are no additional power gains, and it's not needed by virtue of the Ford computer's design.
To return to stock, all you need to do is remove the Superchip, which takes maybe 30 seconds to a minute or so. So you don't have to go thru a process of re-loading your factory program.
Hypertech has had problems with their Power Programmers over the years, including recently. They have problems sometimes with not getting the program fully uploaded into the ECU, with the unit stalling or loosing it's communication protocol in mid-stream. A number of people have called us and told us that they have been left without being able to start their vehicle until it's reloaded by a dealership as a result. I don't mean to say that this is prevelant or to knock them, just that we hear that kind of feedback from users who have returned them and gone with the Superchip.
The only real advantage that the Hypertech unit offers, when it works right, is the ability to re-calibrate the speedometer in a limited number of these vehicles, and the fact that you don't have to clean the connector on the back of the computer like you do to install the Superchip. Though sometimes it works in reverse, adding to the speedometer error instead of correcting it. That is something that is currently in R&D with just about every chipmaker, including us. We have a good number of the codes knocked out for speedo calibrations, but because we are code-specific, it is a time-consuming process to get them all done correctly. FOrd uses several different mothods of recalibrating the speedo in the program itself, it's not consistent, which may be why the Hypertech unit has those problems with some vehicles. And of course there are some F-150 codes that we can't do speedo calibrations on yet, either, that is an on-going R&D project.
Anytime we've had someone here on F-150 Online who has used both the Hypertech and the Superchip on the same vehicle, they have always preferred the Superchip's program. The difference between getting power gains only on full-throttle or getting them at any throttle position makes all the difference in the world in overall driveability, coupled with the program being made specifically for each code in each vehicle, most people are very happy with the Superchip.
As far as having to send the Superchip back in for reprogramming, that is only needed if you want a custom program, as the Superchip already includes everything except the speedo calibration. If you need a speedo calibration, then that is a custom program, but you don't need to send your Superchip back in and wait, what we do is have the program made, send you out another Superchip so you don't have to be without it, and then when you get your new one, you send your original back to us, that's how we normally do it here at Performance these days. Other than the speedo calibrations when they work, the Hypertech unit does not offer any options that aren't already in the Superchip's program, and it's considerably more expensive of course.
Basically what we have here is 2 different methods of getting the new program into the ECU; therefore, in my opinion, it really becomes a matter of the quality of the programming itself, as that is what controls your powertrain of course, and how you get that program into the computer doesn't matter. If Hypertech had superior programing ability, we'd be marketing their products instead, we don't care what the name on the box is, just how good the program inside is.
This is just a little food for thought, coming from someone who has an obvious bias.
Best of luck whatever you decide,
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
#3
01-05-2001 | 02:00 PM
Thread Starter
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
From: Davis, Ca USA
Biased, boy you are going to be catching it on that word.
Hey, thanks for the infomation. After some previous conversations and posts I've felt that the superchip was the way to go, but I wanted to see about the programmer. The way you explain it, unless I'm at the strip running WFO (Wide F'ing Open) the hypertech won't do much.
I hope they pay you good money to take the heat from this message board.
Thanks,
Matt
------------------
2000 2W F150 (Flareside Black ExCab) 5.4L with K&N FIPK,Flowmaster Delta 40, Twin dual 3" pipes out the back, Stock Ford Sport 17" Rims
Hey, thanks for the infomation. After some previous conversations and posts I've felt that the superchip was the way to go, but I wanted to see about the programmer. The way you explain it, unless I'm at the strip running WFO (Wide F'ing Open) the hypertech won't do much.
I hope they pay you good money to take the heat from this message board.
Thanks,
Matt
------------------
2000 2W F150 (Flareside Black ExCab) 5.4L with K&N FIPK,Flowmaster Delta 40, Twin dual 3" pipes out the back, Stock Ford Sport 17" Rims
#4
01-05-2001 | 02:10 PM
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
Hi Matt,
Thanks for the laughs! I do get heat sometimes, but it's rarely from any of our own customers. I wish we did get paid to take the heat, we'd have made a small fortune over the past few weeks! Such is life, we do it to support F-150 Online, as we feel the value of this web site is more important than anything else here.
All the best,
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
Thanks for the laughs!
I do get heat sometimes, but it's rarely from any of our own customers. I wish we did get paid to take the heat, we'd have made a small fortune over the past few weeks! Such is life, we do it to support F-150 Online, as we feel the value of this web site is more important than anything else here.All the best,
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
#5
01-05-2001 | 02:18 PM
Member
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: Memphis, TN, USA
5150PhD:
I have had Hypertech's chip and Programmer. Do yourself a favor and avoid the hassles and go with another chip maker. Hypertech has a good program for WOT. I was also one of the unfortunate who had to have their computer flashed back to factory after the Programmer crapped out. Hypertech has alot of great engineers but I believe they need to stick with GM and leave the big bad Fords alone.
Just my opinion. Others here are happy with the Hypertech chip/programmer...hell I even sold a few flks on them when I was happy. But all it takes is one NO-START after a re-programm and no more.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
------------------
KV
-----
'97 F150 SuperCab 4.6L Auto 2WD
Burgandy
Nerf Bars
Cat Back exhaust with Magnaflo dual 3" pipes
and tipsout the back.
SuperChip
K&N Drop-In Filter
Bosch Platinum +4 spark plugs
1/4 16.747 @81.73 (this will improve)
Track Time Pics
I have had Hypertech's chip and Programmer. Do yourself a favor and avoid the hassles and go with another chip maker. Hypertech has a good program for WOT. I was also one of the unfortunate who had to have their computer flashed back to factory after the Programmer crapped out. Hypertech has alot of great engineers but I believe they need to stick with GM and leave the big bad Fords alone.
Just my opinion. Others here are happy with the Hypertech chip/programmer...hell I even sold a few flks on them when I was happy. But all it takes is one NO-START after a re-programm and no more.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
------------------
KV
-----
'97 F150 SuperCab 4.6L Auto 2WD
Burgandy
Nerf Bars
Cat Back exhaust with Magnaflo dual 3" pipes
and tipsout the back.
SuperChip
K&N Drop-In Filter
Bosch Platinum +4 spark plugs
1/4 16.747 @81.73 (this will improve)
Track Time Pics
#6
01-05-2001 | 02:33 PM
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
From: Davis, Ca USA
Thanks for the experience/advice mileaux. Yeah, I think 1 no start would definitely do it for me. :{
So that's 1 biased Mike vote and 1 unbiased vote for superchip.
Thanks
GO RAIDERS!!!!! Just Win Baby
------------------
2000 2W F150 (Flareside Black ExCab) 5.4L with K&N FIPK,Flowmaster Delta 40, Twin dual 3" pipes out the back, Stock Ford Sport 17" Rims
So that's 1 biased Mike vote
and 1 unbiased vote for superchip.Thanks
GO RAIDERS!!!!! Just Win Baby
------------------
2000 2W F150 (Flareside Black ExCab) 5.4L with K&N FIPK,Flowmaster Delta 40, Twin dual 3" pipes out the back, Stock Ford Sport 17" Rims
#7
01-05-2001 | 02:44 PM
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
From: Davis, Ca USA
mike
Off the subject but how do you place a picture into your signature? I'm getting some for my ride and want to share what I got (not much yet, but hey we like pictures).
------------------
2000 2W F150 (Flareside Black ExCab) 5.4L with K&N FIPK,Flowmaster Delta 40, Twin dual 3" pipes out the back, Stock Ford Sport 17" Rims
Off the subject but how do you place a picture into your signature? I'm getting some for my ride and want to share what I got (not much yet, but hey we like pictures).
------------------
2000 2W F150 (Flareside Black ExCab) 5.4L with K&N FIPK,Flowmaster Delta 40, Twin dual 3" pipes out the back, Stock Ford Sport 17" Rims
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#8
01-06-2001 | 05:22 PM
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
Hi 5150PhD,
Ahh, now a good chance for me to show my ignorance..... I don't know.
I've never done it myself, I think the images are actually posted on one of the Internet sites that hosts web images free, and then that gets linked to here when the thread loads.
I would suggest asking someone down in the section "Test 1-2-3" I think it's called, which is a section specifically reserved for testing signatures, and ask one of the people down there, or possibly in the "Questions about this site" section perhaps.
Sorry I can't be more help on this one,
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
Ahh, now a good chance for me to show my ignorance..... I don't know.
I've never done it myself, I think the images are actually posted on one of the Internet sites that hosts web images free, and then that gets linked to here when the thread loads.
I would suggest asking someone down in the section "Test 1-2-3" I think it's called, which is a section specifically reserved for testing signatures, and ask one of the people down there, or possibly in the "Questions about this site" section perhaps.
Sorry I can't be more help on this one,
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer