Something for nothing?!? It doesn't work that way
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From: Little River, SC US
Where did this guy come from? I have heard nothing but great things about this chip and I'm considering putting one in when I get a chance. Performance and personality are the reasons we do what we do. Mostly personality. We're all different and our trucks are too. I spent 8 months looking for a 5-speed shortbed because I personally don't like autos. That's me. I'm not too worried about increases gas mileage with a chip or anything else for that matter. It's nice to know I can improve, but if I couldn't afford $25 a tank, I would never have bought it. It boils down to what YOU WANT TO DO WITH YOUR TRUCK!! If you don't like it or don't agree, fine. Just keep quiet about it. Sorry to ramble, but I get defensive when people start bashing. They obviously don't know much about anything. ** As far as the race this weekend, it's pretty bad when you have to wreck your way to the front.**
For what it's worth...
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1998 F-150 XLT 4x4, Regular Cab, Short-Bed, 4.6L V-8, 5-Speed, 3.55 Rear Gears, Dark Toreador Red
[This message has been edited by gearjammer (edited 09-02-1999).]
For what it's worth...
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1998 F-150 XLT 4x4, Regular Cab, Short-Bed, 4.6L V-8, 5-Speed, 3.55 Rear Gears, Dark Toreador Red
[This message has been edited by gearjammer (edited 09-02-1999).]
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
My first comment is, "Wow, what a thread!"
Actually, Birddog *does* make a very important point, and his point asks one of the most often asked questions. Which is, if power can be increased thru simple programming changes, then why doesn't the automaker do it? And the supposed logic of this argument being an automatic "No, it can't be done, because Ford isn't doing it".
WRONG!
Several responders got the answer, and it is simply a matter of *priorities*. These US-spec vehicles are sold are operated anywhere from Nova Scotia to the wilds of Mexico, and Ford programs these trucks to be able to run on gas as low as 85 octane, to provide them with "maximum gasoline compatibility". They do this with the view that these are work trucks, and they are going to see the absolute worst possible conditions, across this entire continent. So they program the vehicles for "maximum gasoline compatibility". Those 3 words sum it up. Where one of Ford's main priorities is to achieve "maximum gasoline compatibility" across this entire continent, Superchip's priority is maximum performance and driveability using the high quality gasoline that is available virtually everywhere in *this* country. Plain and simple. And we're not saying that Ford is wrong in doing this, it's actually very understandable from their point of view. The vehicles have to be able to operate in the widest possible range of conditions, from the automakers point of view.
Ford's engineers aren't stupid, this isn't some big secret that only Superchips knows. Ford tunes their performance vehicles more aggressively than their SUV's, trucks, and non-performance vehicles, but even then, there is still far more room for improvement, because of the compromises forced upon the engineers for other concerns, and gasoline compatibility is just one of those concerns, even in their performance vehicles, just not to the extant that it is in their work trucks, for obvious reasons.
If this (increasing power via tuning) were not possible, no chipmaker would be able to stay in business. It would very quickly be known, and that would be the end of it.
Let me explain a bit about the programming process, and what is done to these F-150s.....it can basically be stated as a "conversion", converting the vehicle from one that is designed to be used with 85-87 octane, to one that is specifically programmed to take advantage of the additional anti-knock properties of premium gasoline. In other words, converting the vehicle from a regular gas vehicle to a premium gas vehicle. And as part of that process, we can use additional spark advance. It is the increased spark advance on part-throttle that gives the improvement in gas mileage, it's a by-product. Just like when we could still set our own timing via a twist of the distributor, and use Sunoco 260, you get more power, and better fuel efficiency when you keep your foot out of it.
As many people here have heard me say time after time, Superchips *invented* the performance chip concept. It is Superchips who many of the world's major automakers come to for problem-solving. That couldn't possibly happen if Superchips didn't have world-class expertise, both at their World HQ in Bletchley, England, and here in this country. Ford trains it's programmers with *their* priorities in mind, and with the vast majority of them, that is as far as their knowledge and experience goes, just like anyone else. Your knowledge is limited to your experience. However, there is a world beyond the doctrines of FoMoCo, believe it or not. Ford doesn't hold the monopoly on creative thinking, not by a long shot.
I'm a Ford guy, thru and thru. Love the vehicles, and my family has worked for Ford for 3 generations. Own Fords, drive Fords. However, I'm not about to let Ford dictate my total vehicle ownership and driving experience, and truth be told, I don't think Ford would want to. There are elements within many automnakers that would love for us chipmakers to dry up and go away. Then there are the elements that come to Superchips for help, realizing that nobody on this planet has more knowledge and experience in getting better driveability from these vehicles. That's all they do, day in, and day out. It is *not* what Ford, or any other automaker does day in and day out, due to *differing priorities*.
Now there is an aspect of Birddog's basic tenant that flys in the face of logic, and that is, if his thinking were correct, then any modification at all, to any aspect of their vehicles by anyone, would be an indictment of Ford's prowess as an automaker, no? Just a little perspective for you, Birddog.
I really liked Bill Murray's (I think it was you, Bill) comment about there being a few new posters who come here and make one post, I guess in some attempt to start a flame war. Or perhaps it's trying to goad me into an attack in return, in an effort to somehow show our good webmaster that we are evil. I choose to view it as an opportunity to answer a very important question, albeit couched in whatever, each individual can fill in that blank for themselves!
The basic question is valid, and I hope this provides a bit more perspective on the differing priorities between chipmakers and automakers.
Our bests to all,
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Actually, Birddog *does* make a very important point, and his point asks one of the most often asked questions. Which is, if power can be increased thru simple programming changes, then why doesn't the automaker do it? And the supposed logic of this argument being an automatic "No, it can't be done, because Ford isn't doing it".
WRONG!
Several responders got the answer, and it is simply a matter of *priorities*. These US-spec vehicles are sold are operated anywhere from Nova Scotia to the wilds of Mexico, and Ford programs these trucks to be able to run on gas as low as 85 octane, to provide them with "maximum gasoline compatibility". They do this with the view that these are work trucks, and they are going to see the absolute worst possible conditions, across this entire continent. So they program the vehicles for "maximum gasoline compatibility". Those 3 words sum it up. Where one of Ford's main priorities is to achieve "maximum gasoline compatibility" across this entire continent, Superchip's priority is maximum performance and driveability using the high quality gasoline that is available virtually everywhere in *this* country. Plain and simple. And we're not saying that Ford is wrong in doing this, it's actually very understandable from their point of view. The vehicles have to be able to operate in the widest possible range of conditions, from the automakers point of view.
Ford's engineers aren't stupid, this isn't some big secret that only Superchips knows. Ford tunes their performance vehicles more aggressively than their SUV's, trucks, and non-performance vehicles, but even then, there is still far more room for improvement, because of the compromises forced upon the engineers for other concerns, and gasoline compatibility is just one of those concerns, even in their performance vehicles, just not to the extant that it is in their work trucks, for obvious reasons.
If this (increasing power via tuning) were not possible, no chipmaker would be able to stay in business. It would very quickly be known, and that would be the end of it.
Let me explain a bit about the programming process, and what is done to these F-150s.....it can basically be stated as a "conversion", converting the vehicle from one that is designed to be used with 85-87 octane, to one that is specifically programmed to take advantage of the additional anti-knock properties of premium gasoline. In other words, converting the vehicle from a regular gas vehicle to a premium gas vehicle. And as part of that process, we can use additional spark advance. It is the increased spark advance on part-throttle that gives the improvement in gas mileage, it's a by-product. Just like when we could still set our own timing via a twist of the distributor, and use Sunoco 260, you get more power, and better fuel efficiency when you keep your foot out of it.
As many people here have heard me say time after time, Superchips *invented* the performance chip concept. It is Superchips who many of the world's major automakers come to for problem-solving. That couldn't possibly happen if Superchips didn't have world-class expertise, both at their World HQ in Bletchley, England, and here in this country. Ford trains it's programmers with *their* priorities in mind, and with the vast majority of them, that is as far as their knowledge and experience goes, just like anyone else. Your knowledge is limited to your experience. However, there is a world beyond the doctrines of FoMoCo, believe it or not. Ford doesn't hold the monopoly on creative thinking, not by a long shot.
I'm a Ford guy, thru and thru. Love the vehicles, and my family has worked for Ford for 3 generations. Own Fords, drive Fords. However, I'm not about to let Ford dictate my total vehicle ownership and driving experience, and truth be told, I don't think Ford would want to. There are elements within many automnakers that would love for us chipmakers to dry up and go away. Then there are the elements that come to Superchips for help, realizing that nobody on this planet has more knowledge and experience in getting better driveability from these vehicles. That's all they do, day in, and day out. It is *not* what Ford, or any other automaker does day in and day out, due to *differing priorities*.
Now there is an aspect of Birddog's basic tenant that flys in the face of logic, and that is, if his thinking were correct, then any modification at all, to any aspect of their vehicles by anyone, would be an indictment of Ford's prowess as an automaker, no? Just a little perspective for you, Birddog.
I really liked Bill Murray's (I think it was you, Bill) comment about there being a few new posters who come here and make one post, I guess in some attempt to start a flame war. Or perhaps it's trying to goad me into an attack in return, in an effort to somehow show our good webmaster that we are evil. I choose to view it as an opportunity to answer a very important question, albeit couched in whatever, each individual can fill in that blank for themselves!
The basic question is valid, and I hope this provides a bit more perspective on the differing priorities between chipmakers and automakers.
Our bests to all,
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Golf clap, golf clap.
Take a bow Mike.
Todd
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93 F-150 4x2, 4.9L, E-4OD, 3.08 rearend, 31x10.5 BFG A/T's, Skyjacker Softride Hydro Shocks,K&N Airfilter, Jacobs Electronics Plug Wires/Rotor/Cap. (Other mods: Undecided!)
Take a bow Mike.
Todd
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93 F-150 4x2, 4.9L, E-4OD, 3.08 rearend, 31x10.5 BFG A/T's, Skyjacker Softride Hydro Shocks,K&N Airfilter, Jacobs Electronics Plug Wires/Rotor/Cap. (Other mods: Undecided!)
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 1,719
Likes: 1
From: Blue Ridge Mountains, GA
To everyone: Take a look at his registration date and you can see just another troublemaker.
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'97 XLT Reg. Cab, 4.2V6, 5spd, Superchipped, K&N Air Filter, Lund Deflector, Dash Mat, MagnaFlow Muffler, Hellwig Rear Sway Bar, Edelbrock Shocks, Duraliner, Extang Saber Tonneau, Bell-Tech 2" Rear Drop, Amer. Rac. Atlas Wheels Clad in 275/60/17 Eagle GTII. Likes straightaways, loves twisties.
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'97 XLT Reg. Cab, 4.2V6, 5spd, Superchipped, K&N Air Filter, Lund Deflector, Dash Mat, MagnaFlow Muffler, Hellwig Rear Sway Bar, Edelbrock Shocks, Duraliner, Extang Saber Tonneau, Bell-Tech 2" Rear Drop, Amer. Rac. Atlas Wheels Clad in 275/60/17 Eagle GTII. Likes straightaways, loves twisties.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 3,619
Likes: 0
From: New Orleans
something for nothing?, mike have you been giving those chips away free, whereas you charged me msrp less f150 discount, us lightning guys get it coming and going. but still, mine kicka**, actually worth spending, REAL MONEY, on 
Senior Member
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas, NV
Birdhead,
You say that you can get increased performance from an air filter and opening up the exhaust, correct? Well, why doesn't Ford do THAT!?
The money I spent on the chip is the best scam that I have ever bought into!! Ed McMahon has never knocked on my door!!
Mike,
You always have been long winded!!
And if you come up with any other "scams" that will help make my truck faster, let me know!
To all,
I'm sure many of you would agree with the fact that Mike is the most confident, honest, and straight foward salesperson that you have ever dealt with! He is very knowledgeable about his and many other products! I would like to run into a truck salesperson that is as knowledgeable about what they sell!! Is he a bull****ter? I would say yes! Is he a conartist? I don't know, Mike, how is the house in the Carribean coming along!?
Keep on truckin' and burning up Chevies!
Neal
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'94 F-150, 4.9 6cyl., K&N FIPK, Mangecor 8mm wires. Gibson 3" Side Swept, MSD Blaster Coil. Recently Superchipped! Stereo under construction, 2-10" Rockford Fosgate, 600 Watt Amp. Pioneer head unit, will sound great if it ever gets done! Est. 200 hp 300ft/lb. Torque! Not bad for a straight 6!! New project: '82 Stang, 351 Windsor. I'll keep ya posted.
You say that you can get increased performance from an air filter and opening up the exhaust, correct? Well, why doesn't Ford do THAT!?
The money I spent on the chip is the best scam that I have ever bought into!! Ed McMahon has never knocked on my door!!
Mike,
You always have been long winded!!
And if you come up with any other "scams" that will help make my truck faster, let me know! To all,
I'm sure many of you would agree with the fact that Mike is the most confident, honest, and straight foward salesperson that you have ever dealt with! He is very knowledgeable about his and many other products! I would like to run into a truck salesperson that is as knowledgeable about what they sell!! Is he a bull****ter? I would say yes! Is he a conartist? I don't know, Mike, how is the house in the Carribean coming along!?
Keep on truckin' and burning up Chevies!
Neal
------------------
'94 F-150, 4.9 6cyl., K&N FIPK, Mangecor 8mm wires. Gibson 3" Side Swept, MSD Blaster Coil. Recently Superchipped! Stereo under construction, 2-10" Rockford Fosgate, 600 Watt Amp. Pioneer head unit, will sound great if it ever gets done! Est. 200 hp 300ft/lb. Torque! Not bad for a straight 6!! New project: '82 Stang, 351 Windsor. I'll keep ya posted.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
From: Winneconne, WI
We're not worhty! Mike I have not yet had the pleasure of dealing with you, but within a week or two I should have the money saved to purchase a Superchip! I am looking foreward to handing my money to such an outstanding person. I could only wish everyone in a marketing type of position had half the integrity you do. Keep up the great work
Jeff
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1999 F150 Lariat
Reg cab Short box Styleside
5.4L 3.55ls
Deep Wedgwood Blue/Silver
Lund Interceptor hood shield, VentVisors, Class III hitch, Ford molded mud guards, soft tonneau, factory CD with changer (thanks Dusty), tinted windows
http://www.fortunecity.com/silversto...ton54home.html
Jeff
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1999 F150 Lariat
Reg cab Short box Styleside
5.4L 3.55ls
Deep Wedgwood Blue/Silver
Lund Interceptor hood shield, VentVisors, Class III hitch, Ford molded mud guards, soft tonneau, factory CD with changer (thanks Dusty), tinted windows
http://www.fortunecity.com/silversto...ton54home.html
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
From: Winneconne, WI
We're not worhty! Mike I have not yet had the pleasure of dealing with you, but within a week or two I should have the money saved to purchase a Superchip! I am looking foreward to handing my money to such an outstanding person. I could only wish everyone in a marketing type of position had half the integrity you do. Keep up the great work
Jeff
------------------
1999 F150 Lariat
Reg cab Short box Styleside
5.4L 3.55ls
Deep Wedgwood Blue/Silver
Lund Interceptor hood shield, VentVisors, Class III hitch, Ford molded mud guards, soft tonneau, factory CD with changer (thanks Dusty), tinted windows
http://www.fortunecity.com/silversto...ton54home.html
Jeff
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1999 F150 Lariat
Reg cab Short box Styleside
5.4L 3.55ls
Deep Wedgwood Blue/Silver
Lund Interceptor hood shield, VentVisors, Class III hitch, Ford molded mud guards, soft tonneau, factory CD with changer (thanks Dusty), tinted windows
http://www.fortunecity.com/silversto...ton54home.html
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: jeffersonville,in usa
Just my 2 cents. Yes I was a little leary of the chip,but I still purchased one and yes it works. By the way I have had the pleasure of talking to Mike and you need to speak to him. You will see that he is extreamly knowledgable about the chip along with various other mods.
hkr2b
hkr2b
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 1,590
Likes: 0
From: Arlington, Texas
I wanna be I wanna be like Mike You're the man Mike.
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Stone Cold, Black 98 Styleside S/C F150 4x4 0RP 5.4 3.55ls,Magnum bug shield,Grizzly roll bar,
2 Baja lights, 4 165 watt KC lights (fun to play with on weekends), Manik grille guard,Westin step bars,Sonic aluminum treadplate 36" tool box, Flowmaster dual exhaust, K/N air filter, 265/75/16 BFG AT/S, American Racing Baja wheels, a F150 Online sticker, and a Stone Cold sticker on the front windshield.. More to come for Stone Cold: Ramsey winch will be on it real soon (hopefully), 2 more KC lights, Rancho shocks. If you would like to see pics, email me at mudder46@hotmail.com or see pics at http://members.aol.com/polokid54/fpic.html
You're the man Mike.------------------
Stone Cold, Black 98 Styleside S/C F150 4x4 0RP 5.4 3.55ls,Magnum bug shield,Grizzly roll bar,
2 Baja lights, 4 165 watt KC lights (fun to play with on weekends), Manik grille guard,Westin step bars,Sonic aluminum treadplate 36" tool box, Flowmaster dual exhaust, K/N air filter, 265/75/16 BFG AT/S, American Racing Baja wheels, a F150 Online sticker, and a Stone Cold sticker on the front windshield.. More to come for Stone Cold: Ramsey winch will be on it real soon (hopefully), 2 more KC lights, Rancho shocks. If you would like to see pics, email me at mudder46@hotmail.com or see pics at http://members.aol.com/polokid54/fpic.html
Member
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
From: Native New Yorker in Cary NC
BIRDDOGG
I do not know about anyone else, but, you
have every right to your opinion and concerns. Especially on a $30,000 truck.
Its sad your ATTACKED for having your own
opinion.
Just for everyone's information, if, the
Ford Dealership, finds you installed the chip
your warranty will be voided. I would not want to take that chance on my Truck. Yes, you can take it out, but, if it is so great, why hide it.
*********************************************
99SuperCab Larait 4x4, ORP, TTP, Dura Liner,
ARE Cap, Gibson Cat Back Single Exhaust,
Airad, Icom Two Meter Ham Radio, RF Concepts
Linear Amplifier 170 Watts
I do not know about anyone else, but, you
have every right to your opinion and concerns. Especially on a $30,000 truck.
Its sad your ATTACKED for having your own
opinion.
Just for everyone's information, if, the
Ford Dealership, finds you installed the chip
your warranty will be voided. I would not want to take that chance on my Truck. Yes, you can take it out, but, if it is so great, why hide it.
*********************************************
99SuperCab Larait 4x4, ORP, TTP, Dura Liner,
ARE Cap, Gibson Cat Back Single Exhaust,
Airad, Icom Two Meter Ham Radio, RF Concepts
Linear Amplifier 170 Watts