hi I just installed a 2.5 a/s leveling kit I know I need to do an alignment but I can't decide if I want to put a block in the rear if I go ahead and get an alignment would I need to get another alignment if I decided to put the block in later. thanks

 

You will need to do another alignment as putting a block in the rear will change the caster of the front.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...e.jsp?techid=4

 

That block in the rear shouldn't change the caster enough to even give a second thought to, whether in or out. I think you'd have a tough time even reading a difference in caster, with it in or out.

 

It takes less than you think to change the caster. On a 145" wheelbase, a change of 1.26" in height will equal a 1/2 degree change in caster.

 

Kingfish, do you do alignments? I did alignments for a # of years in the course of my work. I didn't ever do it that way, but I can guaranty you, from experience, that MOST guys doing FEA will put the guages on, check it and say "within specs", pull the guages off, charge you for it, and give it back to you, never telling you that they didn't DO anything, only checked it. If the caster is EVEN on both sides, even at limits, or a little out, they know it won't pull so it gets "flagged" and delivered! I spent most of my life in automotive work and you wouldn't believe how few really "good" FEA guys there are, that really do it the way it should be done.

 

Caster is usually determined to be in when it is within 1 degree + or -. If at a plus 1/2 degree and you add another 3/4 degree due to a rear or front height change (for that, less than a 2" change), you will now be at +1 and 1/4 degree, which by definition is out of spec. If it went the other way, you would be in spec, but you will not know that until you check the alignment.

PS, if it is a little out, and they do not set it to specs, then they are not doing the job they are being paid for.

 

The last alignment I got at Goodyear, they gave me a printout of the specs and the actual numbers they got. They got everything pretty damn close.

 

I recently alligned mine, I added a little caster. Caster is not generally a tire wearing deal, it mostly affects how a vehicle wants run straight or to return to straight from a turn. A little extra is better than not enough. As long as both sides are very near the same, it'll be OK. My Caster is very nearly 6 degrees both sides now.

Camber and Toe are the ones that will eat tires off fast if they are out.
My Camber is 3/32" in at the top of my 20" wheels, same both sides, call it -0.27 degree. (I could have reduced it to zero, but I would have to have pulled it in at the back and gave up caster to do it. As it is, it's in spec. My front lower control arm bolt is all the way in on one side and nearly so on the other. I wanted to keep both sides the same.)
My Toe in I initially set at 3/32 in 30" which is just about 0.18 degree. After a few days, I checked (it was the same, but I felt I could make it better) and reset by adding a hair by using both ends to keep strg wheel straight.
Now have the Toe at very near + 5/32" (clearly over 1/8", just a hair under 5/32" but almost there) in 30" which is near +0.30 degrees (BTW, 5/32" in 30" is the same as 1/8" in a 24" distance, call it +0.298 degrees) and she drive's absolutely super.

 

I started to do in-house alignments because of the BAD experiences, even when sent to reputable alignment shops. Pretty disgusting! I have had many poorly done FEA's over the years, ones where you couldn't let go of the steering wheel. When I bought my '99 new it pulled to the right. I took it back for alignment under warranty. I pulled just as bad when I got it back. I said UNACCEPTABLE! When I got it back that time it went straight down the road. I worked in a Chev. dealership many years ago that sold a lot of FEA's. The FEA guy would take 'em for a ride down a level street by the dealership and if they went straight he didn't even run them up on the rack, just "flagged" it and parked it. Even had a name for it- "The sunshine alignment" Pretty disgusting!

 

In other words a flat out rip off.

 

Yep, after 40 years of dealing with shops and increasingly, as technology gets "better", as time becomes worth more to the guy under neath, as roads got better, as cars seem to hold alignments better once they are alligned .... why is it that any alignment almost seems for sure to lead to at least one and often two or more return trips to get right! At least, so it seams to be here.

When I was a boy in the '60s, my Dad worked at GE in engineering. He had a buddy who also worked there and who had a 3 bay garage down behind his house and who did front end work for people in his off time and on Saturdays. Had a Bear alignment rack there too that probably dated to the 30s or 40s. I used to watch him when Dad let me go out to his shop with him, he worked with chalk, scribes, levels, spiindle mount gages, a tram for toe, and made notes in a notebook he carried in his pocket and looked back at it often. daddy said he was the best, nebver had to go twice to get it done once.

Dad died in '69, I started driving in '70, through the '70s until the fellow retired that's where I went for myy cars and my mother's cars. In 1979 while I was in VSP basic I left my 67 Chevelle SS there for him to completely rebuild the front end, all bushings and BJs and tie rod ends. That thing drove super afterwards. I guess he gave it up in the early '80s.

Lazers were something you read about in a Superman comic back then. Computor was what the man had between his ears. There was no "sunshine allignment" with that fellow. When he was done, it was right.

For years since, getting a police car or personal car became a chore I dreaded because it never seemed right until several visits and it's 10-12 miles one way for me. Now I'm retired, I've alligned my '92 TBird front and rear and now my '07 FX4 myself ..... I'm pleased.

 

I never did an alignment that I didn't do a road test on afterwards. In all the years that I did alignments I only ever had one complaint (comeback). It was a Toyota Corolla a few years old. They had figured an alignment although it was hit light and no where near the suspension. I guaged it and it was perfect as I suspected it would be. The owner came back complaining of a pull to the right and I knew from guaging it couldn't be alignment so the only other thing would be "radial pull". He had some cheap tires on it which would account for the radial pull. I switched tires till the pull was completely eliminated and it went straight down the road, hands off. He obviously knew it pulled before the accident but wanted something for nothing and figured he'd claim it wasn't that way before and get it fixed for free. Not uncommon for people to lie about problems they've had for a long time and swear after an accident that it was never that way before. The shop and the worker have to "eat" this fraud, not the insurance company. (talking about a lot more costly lies than that)

 

A pretty sickening rip off. The writers even knew that he did this but he made great money (rather stole great money) and they did too because he could run so many FEA's through in a day when he was probably even guaging less than half of them. The writers got a percentage and he was on straight commision. Incidently, in another Chev. dealership that I worked in for quite a few years, there was one of the most competent and honest FEA guys I've ever known. Every car got road tested and 0 combacks because it was never parked until he was 100% satisfied. One of the best!

 

xxx

 

I know what you're saying. Folks of all kinds on both sides, and I don't doubt that there are some good alignment men out there still. But "where?" is the question. Don't live in the city now, I'm in the country last 30 plus years and it's a ways any direction and finding that good one is a time ... and often $$$ ... consuming deal.

I know tires can cause pulling, and I've been pleased that cars need fewer alignments now than once was the case.

I have a 2001 Mercury Grand Marquis I've had since new, it's our "trip car" mostly. Bought it for roomy trips and we often had either my or the wife's mother with us. Been across the country three times now and some shorter trips. Just a hair over 70K. Still has original brake pads on it and has never been on a front end machine since the day I took it off the dealer lot. I run 225/60-16 Goodyear RS-As on it, soft rubber, good in winter too, I carry 42-44 psi in them just like I did the RS-As on my last three Crown Vic police cars. Never wears tires bad, just wear even and handles great and get's about double the miles out of them that a police car did.

In fact, my last three Ford police cars never saw an alignment machine except the '06 once after they repaired deer wreck damage as a "check" and it was OK the man said (must have been OK, it didn't wear tires any worse or drive different) .