Are slotted rotors better than factory?
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wrote this for a car forum who's particular brakes could activate ABS well in excess of 70mph. meaning regardless of brake upgrades from a good condition completely stock system... traction was always the first limiting factor, followed by dot3 fluid. so bare that in mind when reading the gist of the points made bare on these trucks, not every last detail... i digress...
just insert road racing track use for heavy towing (same differance, just not nearly as hard on the brakes) and autocrossing for light towing & youll never know the differance.
just insert road racing track use for heavy towing (same differance, just not nearly as hard on the brakes) and autocrossing for light towing & youll never know the differance.
Originally Posted by Toysrme
my views on general brake upgrades from afew years of playing with them, and being an ex-tech...
first thing is first. if your tires can lock at a respectable speed. you don't need bigger brakes, you need MORE TRACTION.
secondly... learn what the hell brake fade is in the first place!? if you hit your brakes and the damn pedal goes to the floor, earth to idiot the brakes are fine. YOU'RE BOILING YOUR GD BRAKE FLUID out of the caliper. Change your old nasty crap out with something fresh, and to specification of the temperature range you are trying to operate them at. if you push the pedal and it's stiff at the height it normally grips, but nothing is happening, YOU'VE FRIED THE PADS!. you definately need something better!!!!
99% of all non full out road track racing brake upgrades only need quality pads, correctly chosen fluid & traction... dot3 street cars should always use dot4, and change the fluid yearly. Not some of it... All of it.
Not 3 grand BBK's, not special expencive things, not needless $300 stainless brake lines (when your master cylinder, brake booster, and pedal leverage is responcible for 95% of brake pedal feel, not the lines...) ... it's all a relative waste of money for all of these cars so get over yourselves because im saving you alot of money that can be used towards something more useful.
first thing is first. if your tires can lock at a respectable speed. you don't need bigger brakes, you need MORE TRACTION.
secondly... learn what the hell brake fade is in the first place!? if you hit your brakes and the damn pedal goes to the floor, earth to idiot the brakes are fine. YOU'RE BOILING YOUR GD BRAKE FLUID out of the caliper. Change your old nasty crap out with something fresh, and to specification of the temperature range you are trying to operate them at. if you push the pedal and it's stiff at the height it normally grips, but nothing is happening, YOU'VE FRIED THE PADS!. you definately need something better!!!!
99% of all non full out road track racing brake upgrades only need quality pads, correctly chosen fluid & traction... dot3 street cars should always use dot4, and change the fluid yearly. Not some of it... All of it.
Not 3 grand BBK's, not special expencive things, not needless $300 stainless brake lines (when your master cylinder, brake booster, and pedal leverage is responcible for 95% of brake pedal feel, not the lines...) ... it's all a relative waste of money for all of these cars so get over yourselves because im saving you alot of money that can be used towards something more useful.
Originally Posted by Toysrme
pads... EBC sucks, don't buy into that stupid junk. pedal feel is lame (they're horribly inconsistant during track use, they never bite, and hold the same) the pad life is HORRENDOUS, they don't dust any less than anything else in a performance catigory so don't kid yourself... plus you're all lazy and should wash your quality wheels anyway...
since I first used a set of Hawk HPS pads. i love them. they're no more expencive than other top quality, avalible pads. there respocive and hold when hot is extremely grippy, the pedal feel bites consistantly when hot. pad life is VERY LONG for pads in the same segment, they don't dust any more than anything else.
when cold they're smoothe as any silky OEM pad and very quiet when shimmed & anti-squeal is applied. you can't get half of that as good on any other street strip pad so you might aswell buy them & enjoy all hot & cold benifits.
since I first used a set of Hawk HPS pads. i love them. they're no more expencive than other top quality, avalible pads. there respocive and hold when hot is extremely grippy, the pedal feel bites consistantly when hot. pad life is VERY LONG for pads in the same segment, they don't dust any more than anything else.
when cold they're smoothe as any silky OEM pad and very quiet when shimmed & anti-squeal is applied. you can't get half of that as good on any other street strip pad so you might aswell buy them & enjoy all hot & cold benifits.
Last edited by Toysrme; Nov 10, 2007 at 04:06 AM.
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continued:
Originally Posted by Toysrme
brake rotors... oh... my... god...
drill rotors are stupid. it's a style fad. they are inferior to everything in every possible constructive way. not to mention will, and do fail when heat cycled. you don't have to be track driving to crack them...
you don't need slotted rotors. with slotted rotors you're simply going to chew up $100 in brake pads in 25% of the original time. i know i've done it thrice on the same car, driving the same way, which was constantly getting faster at the same time!?
drill rotors are stupid. it's a style fad. they are inferior to everything in every possible constructive way. not to mention will, and do fail when heat cycled. you don't have to be track driving to crack them...
you don't need slotted rotors. with slotted rotors you're simply going to chew up $100 in brake pads in 25% of the original time. i know i've done it thrice on the same car, driving the same way, which was constantly getting faster at the same time!?
Originally Posted by Toysrme
drilled rotors are moronic.
they have lower mass, lower pad surface area, and far inferior structural intergrity.
all of which lets you know that they are stupid. they flat out have taken more distance to stop than either blank, or slotted rotors in every test i've ever noted. they store and radiate less heat, meaning it gets dumped into the first weak spot on the brake system -> THE MOTHER FKING FLUID
and yet again. when not heat cycled properly they have been shown time and time again to outright fail via cracking. brake rotors are almost universally on road cars made from CAST IRON which DOES NOT heat cycle well at all. cast irons by AWS and ASME code isn't even allowed to be inspected after any welding, casting, or otherwise heat treating for ATLEAST 48 hours after cooling because it can crack long after it has heated and cooled. which is exactly why all drilled eventually rotors warp, crack, or otherwise fall to pieces in the first place long before any other rotor would. which goes alllll the way back to the point of...
holey rotors crack alot more often than any other rotor out there.
plus the extreme heat applied to cast iron can change the meterlurgical proporties itself starting at 700-800*F up through 1800*F.
and ontop of that, while rotor makers will never tell you the makeup of their rotors, they almost all but the best use varriations of low-medium carbon cast iron, which is universally known to be very brittle. Brembo uses high carbon, which is still cast iron and still brittle, but not quite as badly.
so let's recap! a base material that OBVIOUSLY BY ITS NATURE succeptible to problems with brittleness, ductility, and especially with heat cycling. anyone else NOT think this is the best choice of material to swiss cheese when some form of structural integrity is in question????????????
people advocate their use CONSTANTLY and i have no idea why??? they have always been as long as i remember on average double the cost of blanks. yet when they give nothing but a long list of negatives with no offsetting features but honestly being afew oz lighter than blanks, and an even smaller weight advantage vs slotted disks!?
lets face facts! drilled rotors are only used in applications where a visual studio needs straight style, or someone can pay ungodly amounts of money for extremely custom rotors of unknown material construction that are drilled for the specific purpose of shaving rotational mass due to sanctioning body regulations on drivetrain weight, and engine constrictions. where every oz of weight shaved is time on a track. and you actually have the old school problem of having to vent the gas. If you don't drive an indmulakart-2 hicky. ask yourself if you apply to the preceeding paragraph. if not... might wanna ksip the drilled rotors!
jesus if someone is concerned about reciprocating weight on a road / track car then lighten the flywheel, pulleys, or take a dremel to your half-shafts. shave the struts, shocks, strut mounts, suspension arms of all kinds. TONS more easily, cheaply looseable dead weight to be found there than the rotors being an oz lighter on each corner. Port the heads, change the exhaust to lighter components...
slotted rotors will STILL stop slightly slower than blank rotors UNTIL you have passed the point at which the pad surface is designed to have a high coeffecient of friction. which means you're driving the highest quality street/strip pads on the track, or you're driving track only pads on a track. it's not going to happen in street conditions, or auto-x. i've never heard of a 10-20 minute long auto-x corse. someone please correct my if im wrong...
slotted rotor pad life is far lower in a street application. i know, i've been there thrice already. so have the majority of the people here that install them & swap back. plus. the vast majority of people sporting slotted rotors put them on backwards not realizing that yes, the slots are directional! rotflmao! idiots!!!
i digress... atleast slotted rotors have a reason to exist. however i will never advocate their use on street going cars based on pad life, and upfront cost. take the money saved by buying the same quality blanks, and put it to useful brake upgrads. BETTER PADS AND FRESH QUALITY FLUID.
they have lower mass, lower pad surface area, and far inferior structural intergrity.
all of which lets you know that they are stupid. they flat out have taken more distance to stop than either blank, or slotted rotors in every test i've ever noted. they store and radiate less heat, meaning it gets dumped into the first weak spot on the brake system -> THE MOTHER FKING FLUID
and yet again. when not heat cycled properly they have been shown time and time again to outright fail via cracking. brake rotors are almost universally on road cars made from CAST IRON which DOES NOT heat cycle well at all. cast irons by AWS and ASME code isn't even allowed to be inspected after any welding, casting, or otherwise heat treating for ATLEAST 48 hours after cooling because it can crack long after it has heated and cooled. which is exactly why all drilled eventually rotors warp, crack, or otherwise fall to pieces in the first place long before any other rotor would. which goes alllll the way back to the point of...
holey rotors crack alot more often than any other rotor out there.
plus the extreme heat applied to cast iron can change the meterlurgical proporties itself starting at 700-800*F up through 1800*F.
and ontop of that, while rotor makers will never tell you the makeup of their rotors, they almost all but the best use varriations of low-medium carbon cast iron, which is universally known to be very brittle. Brembo uses high carbon, which is still cast iron and still brittle, but not quite as badly.
so let's recap! a base material that OBVIOUSLY BY ITS NATURE succeptible to problems with brittleness, ductility, and especially with heat cycling. anyone else NOT think this is the best choice of material to swiss cheese when some form of structural integrity is in question????????????
people advocate their use CONSTANTLY and i have no idea why??? they have always been as long as i remember on average double the cost of blanks. yet when they give nothing but a long list of negatives with no offsetting features but honestly being afew oz lighter than blanks, and an even smaller weight advantage vs slotted disks!?
lets face facts! drilled rotors are only used in applications where a visual studio needs straight style, or someone can pay ungodly amounts of money for extremely custom rotors of unknown material construction that are drilled for the specific purpose of shaving rotational mass due to sanctioning body regulations on drivetrain weight, and engine constrictions. where every oz of weight shaved is time on a track. and you actually have the old school problem of having to vent the gas. If you don't drive an indmulakart-2 hicky. ask yourself if you apply to the preceeding paragraph. if not... might wanna ksip the drilled rotors!
jesus if someone is concerned about reciprocating weight on a road / track car then lighten the flywheel, pulleys, or take a dremel to your half-shafts. shave the struts, shocks, strut mounts, suspension arms of all kinds. TONS more easily, cheaply looseable dead weight to be found there than the rotors being an oz lighter on each corner. Port the heads, change the exhaust to lighter components...
slotted rotors will STILL stop slightly slower than blank rotors UNTIL you have passed the point at which the pad surface is designed to have a high coeffecient of friction. which means you're driving the highest quality street/strip pads on the track, or you're driving track only pads on a track. it's not going to happen in street conditions, or auto-x. i've never heard of a 10-20 minute long auto-x corse. someone please correct my if im wrong...
slotted rotor pad life is far lower in a street application. i know, i've been there thrice already. so have the majority of the people here that install them & swap back. plus. the vast majority of people sporting slotted rotors put them on backwards not realizing that yes, the slots are directional! rotflmao! idiots!!!
i digress... atleast slotted rotors have a reason to exist. however i will never advocate their use on street going cars based on pad life, and upfront cost. take the money saved by buying the same quality blanks, and put it to useful brake upgrads. BETTER PADS AND FRESH QUALITY FLUID.
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Kinda long winded,Huh?
Not trying to argue w/ you toy but you mention that pads wear faster w/ drilled or slotted rotors. I have both, and I couldn't disagree w/ you more. When I had stock rotors and pads, went through the pads at around 13,000 miles, 2nd set, gone when truck hit 28,000 and had to have rotors turned, 3rd set, gone at 41,000 miles on the truck and that was w/ quality pads(hawks). Changed rotors to cross drilled/ slotted, and another set of hawk pads all the way around. Completely different results now!!! I rotate tires regularly at 10,000 mile intervals and have been keeping an eye on pads and rotors. Damn things look new, hardly worn at all, and truck now has 74,833 miles on it. That's almost 34,000 miles and no hint of having to change pads or working on brakes, and the truck stops the same if not better than stock. I may be in the minority here, but I am completely, 100% satisfied w/ the results of these rotors! As I've stated in this thread before, I'm all gas and all brake, so these may be the best thing for me and not everybody else. They were not all that much more than the stock rotors either. I think $20.00 more per rotor. So for me, stock ABSOLUTELY SUCKED. Was going through pads at around 15,000 miles per set on average and already had to have the rotors turned after 28,000. These rotors are saving me TIME and MONEY, and are giving me great performance in the long term aspect of things. I don't think I made a STUPID or MORONIC choice. You did say drilled or slotted rotors are stupid and moronic didn't you? Or were you talking about the people who use them? 
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what on earth do you think the drilling and the slotting is actually used for in the modern no gassing era??? to constantly scrape the face of the pad off exposing fresh material.
which is why racers that run pad faces that actually melt under braking are about slotted's only real performance linchpen.
i was reffering to both the drilled rotors, and the people that use them. they chew pads and do nothing in return for the same quality blank rotor except cause gross decreases in structural integrity. that's fine for a little car driving around town that at worst might splash in a puddle. however its absoutely not ok for either a truck, or a performance car.
i roasted a pair of EBC green front pads off a lexus running slotted brembro's in 2,000 miles one time. they ebc green replacement pads in 4,000 miles, a set of lifetime autozone pads as a cheap hold over, AND the rear ebc green pads off by 12,000 miles. settling on hawk hp's and blanks, the car was more consistant and stopped in the shortest distance on a gtech pro/comp. not only that, 40,000+ miles later with the exact same driving habbits has netted the hawk pads to about 1/3 pad life left. amazing.
i digress, it was all written with a certian car set in mind, not the truck, like i said in the very beginning.
AFA my opinion on f150's go. the rotors warp off the trucks the same reason they did way back on the old 4runner's. the rotors flat out have insuffeccient material to heatsink the heat generated during more spirited braking period. drilled rotors will do nothing but compound the warping problem VS the same quality blank rotor.
personally, i have brembo blanks and HPS's all around on ours, with fresh dot4 in it yearly.
AFA your experiances. the stock ford rotors suck. the reason your original hawk pads were destroyed (even as good as they are) were the triple turned stock rotors. you could put flat out carbon brakes on them they'd still warp lol
the key is not using the crap level ford / replacement blank rotors. splurge for brembo. they'll out brake anything until the pads are almost ready to light fires. (which by that time even dot4 fluid would have boiled out of the caliper, so you'd have no reason to worry about the pads lol no brake pressure!)
which is why racers that run pad faces that actually melt under braking are about slotted's only real performance linchpen.
i was reffering to both the drilled rotors, and the people that use them. they chew pads and do nothing in return for the same quality blank rotor except cause gross decreases in structural integrity. that's fine for a little car driving around town that at worst might splash in a puddle. however its absoutely not ok for either a truck, or a performance car.
i roasted a pair of EBC green front pads off a lexus running slotted brembro's in 2,000 miles one time. they ebc green replacement pads in 4,000 miles, a set of lifetime autozone pads as a cheap hold over, AND the rear ebc green pads off by 12,000 miles. settling on hawk hp's and blanks, the car was more consistant and stopped in the shortest distance on a gtech pro/comp. not only that, 40,000+ miles later with the exact same driving habbits has netted the hawk pads to about 1/3 pad life left. amazing.
i digress, it was all written with a certian car set in mind, not the truck, like i said in the very beginning.
AFA my opinion on f150's go. the rotors warp off the trucks the same reason they did way back on the old 4runner's. the rotors flat out have insuffeccient material to heatsink the heat generated during more spirited braking period. drilled rotors will do nothing but compound the warping problem VS the same quality blank rotor.
personally, i have brembo blanks and HPS's all around on ours, with fresh dot4 in it yearly.
AFA your experiances. the stock ford rotors suck. the reason your original hawk pads were destroyed (even as good as they are) were the triple turned stock rotors. you could put flat out carbon brakes on them they'd still warp lol
the key is not using the crap level ford / replacement blank rotors. splurge for brembo. they'll out brake anything until the pads are almost ready to light fires. (which by that time even dot4 fluid would have boiled out of the caliper, so you'd have no reason to worry about the pads lol no brake pressure!)
Last edited by Toysrme; Nov 10, 2007 at 08:32 AM.
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That's why performance MB's and BMW, etc. have drilled rotors. 'Cuz they suck......
BTW - a drilled rotor has to have chamfers at the hole. This elminates cracking, and they don't scrape the pad off. Had drilled rotors on my '97 for all 149K miles. No problems....
BTW - a drilled rotor has to have chamfers at the hole. This elminates cracking, and they don't scrape the pad off. Had drilled rotors on my '97 for all 149K miles. No problems....
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From: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
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Originally Posted by Toysrme
what on earth do you think the drilling and the slotting is actually used for in the modern no gassing era??? to constantly scrape the face of the pad off exposing fresh material.
which is why racers that run pad faces that actually melt under braking are about slotted's only real performance linchpen.
i was reffering to both the drilled rotors, and the people that use them. they chew pads and do nothing in return for the same quality blank rotor except cause gross decreases in structural integrity. that's fine for a little car driving around town that at worst might splash in a puddle. however its absoutely not ok for either a truck, or a performance car.
i roasted a pair of EBC green front pads off a lexus running slotted brembro's in 2,000 miles one time. they ebc green replacement pads in 4,000 miles, a set of lifetime autozone pads as a cheap hold over, AND the rear ebc green pads off by 12,000 miles. settling on hawk hp's and blanks, the car was more consistant and stopped in the shortest distance on a gtech pro/comp. not only that, 40,000+ miles later with the exact same driving habbits has netted the hawk pads to about 1/3 pad life left. amazing.
i digress, it was all written with a certian car set in mind, not the truck, like i said in the very beginning.
AFA my opinion on f150's go. the rotors warp off the trucks the same reason they did way back on the old 4runner's. the rotors flat out have insuffeccient material to heatsink the heat generated during more spirited braking period. drilled rotors will do nothing but compound the warping problem VS the same quality blank rotor.
personally, i have brembo blanks and HPS's all around on ours, with fresh dot4 in it yearly.
AFA your experiances. the stock ford rotors suck. the reason your original hawk pads were destroyed (even as good as they are) were the triple turned stock rotors. you could put flat out carbon brakes on them they'd still warp lol
the key is not using the crap level ford / replacement blank rotors. splurge for brembo. they'll out brake anything until the pads are almost ready to light fires. (which by that time even dot4 fluid would have boiled out of the caliper, so you'd have no reason to worry about the pads lol no brake pressure!)
which is why racers that run pad faces that actually melt under braking are about slotted's only real performance linchpen.
i was reffering to both the drilled rotors, and the people that use them. they chew pads and do nothing in return for the same quality blank rotor except cause gross decreases in structural integrity. that's fine for a little car driving around town that at worst might splash in a puddle. however its absoutely not ok for either a truck, or a performance car.
i roasted a pair of EBC green front pads off a lexus running slotted brembro's in 2,000 miles one time. they ebc green replacement pads in 4,000 miles, a set of lifetime autozone pads as a cheap hold over, AND the rear ebc green pads off by 12,000 miles. settling on hawk hp's and blanks, the car was more consistant and stopped in the shortest distance on a gtech pro/comp. not only that, 40,000+ miles later with the exact same driving habbits has netted the hawk pads to about 1/3 pad life left. amazing.
i digress, it was all written with a certian car set in mind, not the truck, like i said in the very beginning.
AFA my opinion on f150's go. the rotors warp off the trucks the same reason they did way back on the old 4runner's. the rotors flat out have insuffeccient material to heatsink the heat generated during more spirited braking period. drilled rotors will do nothing but compound the warping problem VS the same quality blank rotor.
personally, i have brembo blanks and HPS's all around on ours, with fresh dot4 in it yearly.
AFA your experiances. the stock ford rotors suck. the reason your original hawk pads were destroyed (even as good as they are) were the triple turned stock rotors. you could put flat out carbon brakes on them they'd still warp lol
the key is not using the crap level ford / replacement blank rotors. splurge for brembo. they'll out brake anything until the pads are almost ready to light fires. (which by that time even dot4 fluid would have boiled out of the caliper, so you'd have no reason to worry about the pads lol no brake pressure!)
Last edited by mitch150; Nov 11, 2007 at 02:32 AM.