Matercraft and S-76, you guys are great entertainment. ( What does the S-76 mean?)I find myself agreeing with both of you. I grew up riding in the back of a Ford Country Squire statiowagon and my mother's early 70's wagon with a 429 was the first car I drove. I got my first ticket when I was caught smokin' the s. out of the tires at a stop sign in broad daylight. Sounds dumb now, but man it was great. So, I am forever Ford. However, I have owned a Volvo 960 and I must say every single trip to the dealer for routine matters was 100 times better than my best experience at any Ford dealer. Timelinss, cleanliness, courtesy, accuracy, new loaner cars, the list goes on and on and the Volvo service dept (Nils Seifeldt in Houston)did everything better than Ford and, by the way, the Mercedes dealer where I have to take my wife's ML320 every other month(that is another story--I am looking for a German equivalent of Mastercraft-MasterKraft? to tell me what to do with that ML320. I know it is assembled in Alabama)
Anyway, after a lot of thought and consideration, I have decided to take the offer of the FQR and a free 75000 mile bumper-Bumper warranty and the warranty on the FQR. I have been told the FQR warr. is 24,000(I know, M.craft, but I am going to get it in writing) I plan to sell or trade this '99 Lariat Extended cabwhich currently has 28500 miles before I get to 75,000 and get a Screw, so I want to be covered by that 75000 mile warranty in the meantime. Thanks for everyone's comments. jgredtruck

 

The Sikorsky S-76
The baddest bird in the sky and my future office!

My favorite sayings:
"helicopter pilots don't fly, they beat the air into submission.."
Helicopters don't fly, they're so ugly the earth repels them.."

[This message has been edited by S-76 (edited 03-29-2001).]

 

Proud to annouce that Ford has finally bought back the '99, this makes 2 F150s in a row for us. A '97 and a '99 both Lariat Supercab 5.4's. Both bought back, both with substancial problems. Yes it takes forever, yes its a royal pain in the ***, yes they pony up every excuse under the sun, yes they argue, bitch and moan about what is fair, yes it takes giving them hell at every turn. But persistence pays off everytime. To everyone else fighting this piston slap mess, keep at it, hold their feet to the fire. You are not telling them anything they have not heard before, probably even this morning.

Make them stand behind the product, pound in their head they put you in this situation. You and the dealers for that matter. Meet the zone reps face to face, and make them talk to you straight up, not hiding behind faxes and voice mail. Make them put some teeth in the "Quality is Job 1"/"Built Ford Tough" cliches'.

Demand the buybacks, ESP's or trade assistance. Refuse to pay for mileage pentalites, downtime, and rental cars. And remember the first offers are always crap. Dont settle for "this is all we can do"
I hope all of you achieve your desired goal, we finally have, this marks our third buyback, (1 with GM, 2 with Ford) maybe one day I will write a book about this stuff and how to fight it. I know several people who have had a lemon suit, or a buyback, I dont know anyone with 2, and well I find it hard to believe myself anyone can go thru this 3 times in 11 years. So yeah, some of us do know what we are talking about, and if we can help and of you in anyway, just let us know.

Someone was wanting to know how much devaluement an FQR makes, from 3 different Ford dealers, its from $1500-2500 depending on who you trade with. All are very aware of the problems in the 5.4. And all are not willing to put full value in anyone with a replacement engine. In fact the Ford Zone in Atlanta estimated the vehicle value at 2000 below what the dealers offered. They were probably trying to make it sound like I was offered something fair, but I was not ever. There is only so much risk/liability they are willing to take in reselling the vehicle. And my buyback has 30k left on the ESP bumper to bumper. Dealers know what we know, there is a high risk a vehicle with a reman and all the equipment torn apart to get at it has a high probablity of having more problems down the road. And the more motors you replace, the more at risk that vehicle becomes. The more you pull all that stuff apart again and again, well, you know what happens there.

Ford will tell you the FQR's do not devalue the vehicle (yeah who are they kidding) But the dealers will just not see it that way, adn neither do I. They will of course say that dealers are independent businessmen. But its funny how that never carried over in a warranty situation.

I guess you could try and sell yourself and see what you can get for an FQR, but I would bet if you are deadly honest about it, no one in their right mind would pay the same for a truck with a remaned versus one that is original. I certainly would gain no confort in anything remaned such as a motor, tranny, rear end etc. Nothing in the powertrain at least. And it probably makes no difference if the reman is Ford, Jasper, or whoever else. At least the Jasper's carry a much better warranty.

The only question I have now, like most of you is, is the problem fixed in the 2001. And I can say no one at Ford can say for sure. They still stand by the claim that anything after 4/99 is not affected, but as you can read on this board and others, that is not the case, it still exists in the 2000's, there are probably not enough 2001's with enough miles on them yet to know for sure. I guess like before, time will tell. I can only hope that its finally fixed not only for me; but, for all of us eventually.


Good luck and keep fighting

 

One more thing:


Our 2001 did come with the right radiator, so thanks to everyone else who tipped us off about this problem as well.

 

Hi Mastercraft,
If I were in that situation,I would offer to pay the difference for the crate motor,and try to get the difference to be at dealer net cost,not retail.This would benefeit you greatly at trade in or resale,and could well be worth the effort.You have then called their bluff!!
Ed

 

Congrats Mastercraft!
Good luck with the 01....

 

mastercraft, congrats on the buyback. You've inspired me to ponder the idea that my truck maybe/should be a classified under the lemon law. Just to get your insight in the matter, I'm curious to know if you think this would be worth persueing. Here's a brief summary of the problems I've had, but before I do, I want to make it very clear that my problems have not compremised my faith in Ford to to build a quality truck, and will happily purchase future products without hesitation.

1)Diagnosed and documented piston slap. Having taken it in twice before, this WILL be the final time, before reason a new/FQR engine.

2)Rebuilt transmission. Possibly caused by my doing, having left it in overdrive climbing a somewhat large and steep hill.

3)Rebuilt clutch pack caused by water contaminating gear oil, do to having vent tube inlet mounted in area vulnerable to foreign substances. This was hard getting covered under warranty because they just assumed the backend of the truck was completely submerged under water for this to happen.

3)1 replaced coil-over-plug

4)Torsion bar crossmember bolts replaced do to having one missing and another broken.

One more thing I would like to bring up is that even though I do off-road this vehicle and may seem like I abuse it, it really hasn't exceeded the amount of use a 4x4 should see. My truck has approximately 37,000kms or 23,000miles on it. I would most likely settle for a FQR replacement, but I'm just curious to see what you think.

------------------
~'98 F-150 XLT Reg. Cab Flareside 4x4, Black, 5.4L, 3.55LS, tow package, 285/75/r16 Mud Terrain BFG's,K&N,WMS Velocity Tube, GTS headlight covers, Alpine changer w/FM mod, Clifford alarm system w/keyless entry & starter disable // Future considerations: Bed mat, tonneau cover, 4" suspension lift or 3" body lift.

~'71 F-100 Sport Custom Reg.Cab
-390FE w/Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, 780cfm Holley, ported & polished cylinder heads,
Hydraulic Crane Cam, 10.5:1 CR, Black Jack headers, true double roller timing chain, and high volume oil pump
-C6 transmision w/B&M 2600rpm stall
-9" Ford Rearend w/4.10 Richmond Gears & 31 spline axles
-215/65/r15 Yokohama's for the front & 28"x13.5"x15" Mickey Thompson ET Street slicks for the back
Best 1/4 mile time @ 3500ft altitude 14.69secs @ 92mph

~2000 Suzuki RM125 Dirt Bike
-no need for any modifications! (yet)

~2001 Traxxas T-Maxx Nitro Monster Truck
Modifications: -180degree carb flip w/return spring installed

 

Well let me give this a shot, I must preface this with I dont have any idea what the lemon law in Canada is. Lemon laws vary from state to state, and yes even in 2001, not all states have them. They all apply differently to trucks/cars/RV's/Farm Equipment etc. So I assume you understand all that up front.

A lemon law designation is usually limited to the first year of operation, (like I said it varies from state to state) In my case its any major powertrain failure in the first year, or the same repair 4 times in one calendar year. Still a buyback under lemon laws sometimes requires hiring a lawyer to protect your rights. Lemon laws are a little easier to enforce if you are dealer financed, since you can simply stop paying for the vehicle and do what is called revoking ownership. But again, you would need to talk with your attorney first about stopping payment and your credit etc.

As for abuse, you have to remember the first line of defense any zone or dealer can tell you is "you abused the vehicle" But there is an ammount of abuse engineered into the vehicle to start with. Case and point, trailer and tow ratings, most are really generous, you can cut about 20% off any american tow rating to get the real rating, they are all really overstated especially on the ability of the trannys to hold up for any legnth of time.

As for your case, I use my 4 wheel drives like trucks, not cars, that is what they are supposed to be designed for, not a grocery getter like most people use them. My idea of going off road is not bumping up over a curb at a football game. Tranny failure is a long running problem with Ford, back to the E4OD introduction in late '89 into '90, not until '94 did Ford really try and solve some of the design problems in the E4OD, and in latter years they seem to have gotten some better, but this has not been the case with the 4r70w, 5r55, or the new 4r100 in the super duty which has had a number of problems. So weak trannys has been a running theme for about 14 years now. But in latter years Ford has backed away from telling people not to tow in overdrive.

Towing in overdrive, I dont recommend it, for the simple reason it does not allow the motor to operate in the power band, (between peak torque and peak hp) Staying outside the band uses more fuel and creates more heat and stress in the driveline with any truck. Towing in overdrive (not like in the case of say pulling a bass boat over level ground on an interstate) just makes the motor lug to much which leads like i said to low power, and sky high tranny temps.


more later!

 

After thinking it over, it doesn't really seem like my truck can be categorized under "the lemon law" or any similiar act. The problems I've had are over a coarse of about 1.5-2 years, and never really had any case of multiple problems occuring within a short period of time without any reasoning. I'm still very satisfied with the truck, and have had no problems after having the clutch pack replaced 5 months ago. And thanks mastercraft, for your insight into the situation.

[This message has been edited by fordification (edited 04-04-2001).]

 

I have been wanting a new SuperCrew for about two months. Researching this site trying to learn as much as I can regarding these trucks. The more I read, the more I get scared away. Now I know there are Chevy fans, and Ford fans. I'm not brand specific. However, there is NO WAY I am spending 30,000 for a new SuperCrew Lariat and then in a minimul amount of mileage, the numbers I see posted here, 20 to 30,000 miles, that Ford is putting a new, or rebuilt or FQR motor in my 30,000 truck. First thing I would do is trade it in on another. I guess I take a different view. I'm not so attached to Ford that I would even attempt letting them tear down my truck for a re-mained motor. It just doesn't make any sense to me. And mastercraft is right. I guarantee it will devalue the vehicle on trade in. High miles, repainting, body work, new motor, on a late model vehicle will scare anyone away. I drive a 10 year old Chevy with 176,000. I swear, I trust it more than a brand new SuperCrew at this point in time. It doesn't slap, tranny thunk, no rear end pop, no vibration, no wind noise, and the list of other crap I read here. Sorry guys. No taker here. Think I will stay where I'm at until Ford takes a different point of view.

RickC

 

Yes the 2000's still have PS. Ford just gave me a 5 year 75,000 mile Bumper to Bumper ESP yesterday. I told them if they were not going to replace my engine then I wanted an insurance policy on the truck and the ESP is my insurance policy. They are not going to replace engines for PS with new engines because they continue to claim that an engine has never failed due to PS. They started three 2001's up on the lot that were cold and they had the same sound as mine and according to Ford mine had PS on cold startups. Take it for whats it worth.

 

I also wanted to say that I do believe Ford made an engineering change in April of 1999 on the 5.4L engines but I'm not sure they have it completly nailed down just yet. My belief is that the PS that the late 99's and 00's are experiencing will more than likely not lead to anything terminal down the road but before that I believe Ford was concerned about engines going belly up.

The ESP that I received yesterday was fair and I'm glad that Ford did at least something
other than just saying that they were not going to do anything for me at all.

 

Well I hate to say it, but if they had new 2001's that slap on the lot and think that's ok, then we are all in for it sooner or later. I would laugh at a dealer who thought that might excuse make someone feel better, its the old "they all do that" justification. I dont think that holds water with the 5.4, and E4OD, or a Firestone tire for that matter. "they all do that" is dealer code for we cant fix it and neither can they. I dont care to hear those.

Funny how my 302/351's never slapped, even with 200,000 miles on them. And my new Toyota does not slap, niether did my last 454, and my 2001 so far does not slap, but remember most people are having these problems at low mileage. 15-25k seems to be the norm, people are not even getting say 80-100k before having this problem. Having a substancial defect this early is rediculous, reguardless of who made it.


Just because they are spending millions on warranties and replacements engines does not in any way make me feel better. First of all they would not be spending one dime on any of us if it was not big deal. They would not be replacing engines by the thousands and handing out ESP's like political signs if there was nothing to it. Believe that.

I again say, ask anyone who knows anything about motors and piston slap usually garners several answers: Compression loss over time, wear on cylinder walls and liners, hard on the entire bottom of the motor. Just because Ford tries to claim "one has never blown up from PS" well whoopie, way to go boys, it may not explode in a thousand pieces on the side of I-65, it just may die a slow death long before its time. Then that becomes our problem, not theirs, especially if they can get you past the original 3/36 or the 5/75 entended. Seems to me the warranty is just sorta a band aid to make you feel better, not fix the problem. And a motor with 80,000 on it is certainly not their problem.


Sounds to me if they are not replacing motors anymore, its because someone at the top is tired of paying the bill. If Ford Motor Company does not flush Jacque Nasser and quick, the whole thing is going to slide into mediocrity. Dealers are already suing over the Blue Oval Certification Program, most of their good techs are quitting following the restructuring of the warranty repairs last year, (IE going from paying 6 hours labor on a tranny replacement to 3) Most techs are not gonna do that kinda job for $150 or whatever their take is. They are going into business for themselves and make a lot more $$. But that leaves us with inexperienced techs and such. We suffer, the customer. The sheer number of recalls over the past three years is staggering. Plus, Ford has now changed all their promotions from merit based to diversity based. So a lot of top execs are leaving. And a lot of women are being put in as zone reps, Ford feels that is kinda disarming for the customer, (you wont yell or become combative at a woman as much etc) Sounds kinda funny, but ask anyone about it.

And like we have been saying and experiencing from driving them for two/three years since Ford bought Volvo, their quality is going down as well. Thie customer serive is a lot better at the dealer level, but that is about all now. And yes the next Taurus is on the Volvo C60 platform. Which only makes it 10 years old since it was introduced in '92 as the 850.

 

Kinda takes the suspense out of worrying about developing PS when they come from the factory like that. Actually, your story doesn't make since. You said Ford stated yours has PS and it sounded just like the 3 brand new ones on the lot? So you are saying every new truck on the road has PS? I mean what are the odds of YOUR truck and 3 brand new ones sitting side by side (with near zero miles) on the lot all having PS? Sounds like B.S. to me, take it for what it's worth.

Still waiting to hear from someone who lost money on a trade because they had an FQR.

 

2000Lariat,

I said take it for what it is worth because the Ford Engineer told me that three other 2001 new trucks on the lot had the same sounding noise on cold engine startup as mine. My 2000 was diagnosed as having PS and the Ford engineer wasted no time giving me a ESP, matter of fact there was no twisting his arm for it. He also said that if they replaced my engine more than likely it would develop the same problem. Yea I'm not real clear on all of this as well but kinda tells me there might be a major problem with the 5.4L engines developing PS. I don't know what to make of it but I'm telling you my story and its true. No BS here!!!

Ron