I did in fact, get my '99 5.4 "slapper" replaced with a brand new, out of the crate, ready to install, 2000 5.4. It doesn't have an FQR sticker anywhere, but an original manufactures build date and serial #
They swapped out the plasic intake with my original metal one (no sure what type of metal)Runs very strong and idles better than the original. MPG is 'slightly' worse by about 2mpg. Attribute that to my heavy foot. I have tracked my MPGs since day one.
No flames intended, but not all dealers are crooks, and I rate mine above average if compared to some of the horror stories I read about here. It took me two visits to diagnose (as always and my only complaint), a week of checking up on when the new motor would be ordered, a week to wait for it to arrive, and three days to install. I didn't have to argue, stomp my feet or threaten legal action. The noise was clearly audable, and the dealer commented that I was the first case they had to handle, but they were aware of the issue prior to this. The service manager checked my motor against the TSB, and ordered the motor. The stipulation was that the "current" model year got the "new" 5.4, and 97s-98s received FQRs. I gave the dealers' service department high marks on the resulting survey I received in the mail. I even got a new torque converter...

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1999 F-150 4x4 XLT SC FS ORP Dark Graphite interior, Dark Toreador Red, Power (Driver's) Captain's Chairs, 6 Disk CD, Remote Keyless Entry, Rear Slider
5.4, 3.73
Mods:
Manik grill guard, Westin Nerfs, Lund Moon Visor, Leer TSC600 hard bed cover, Duraliner Drop-in bed liner. Deflecta Shield II bug guard, Ford Vent Visors, Remote Start, Lojack, Airaid FIPK.
Issues:
5.4 "Slapper" replaced with New 2K at 12k mi.
Driver's Door Crack Repaired at 15k mi.

 

I thought I posted this the other day but I don't see it, so forgive me if this is a repeat. I have been going round and round over the dealer's desire to put an FQR in my 99 150 Lariat with 28500 miles. After a week of haggling, I decided to do the arbitration thing with Ford and I told the dealer that is what I was planning. I got the form the other day. Well, the service mgr called and has offered me the FQR, which he says has a 24000 mile warranty and the top line Ford extended warranty to cover bumper to bumper to 75,000 miles. He agreed there have been problems in the past with FQRs and said Ford has bought the company, AER, that was doing the remans in the past. He says the only thing not new on the FQR is the block... blah, blah, blah.
I figure my choices are 1) do nothing and keep the slapper and whatever happens later 2)take the deal or 3) fight Ford for a new engine. If I take what is behind door #3 and ultimately get the new engine, I STILL might have the slap and I STILL might have problems stemming from having everything torn out of my engine compartment and stuck back together when they install the new engine. Also, I know Ford would not throw in the 75,000 warranty and they might try to prorate the thing since I have gotten 28500 out of the first engine.
Assuming I can get the 24,000 FQR warranty in writing(something I understand is not easy) I have decided to take the FQR and the 75,000 extended warranty. I understand that warranty runs about $3500 if purchased from the dealer. I am in Houston and one of the last things I want is an a/c that is on the blink. Also, mine is a a 4x4 and I don't want to have to pay to fix any future tranny trouble. Does anyone think I am making a mistake? Should I hold off for more? Thanks. jgredtruck

 

Ok, I hate to bust your bubble, you did not get an new motor bro, you got an FQR, they dont swap manifolds off new engines. And no one is going to take a new manifold off a new engine and swap it for a used one, that makes no sense at all. You have been lied to just like I said. That plastic is a cover when the motor is shipped, not an intake.

I am very aware what the service bulletins say, and what it says and what they are doing even with '99/2000 model trucks just does not wash. IF you blow up a 2001 or have slap problems you will not get a NEW motor, you get an FQR just like everyone else reguardless of the trucks model or age.

Just because it has a build date and sticker does not make it new, and its real easy for a dealer to pull a FQR stick off the motor, and you might check and see if those stickers are from your old motor since they are swapping valve covers on most of them also. All FQR's come in a crate just like new ones. The reason they pulled your cast iron intake off the old one is they are reusing them on all FQR's. Most are pulling the valve covers and oil pans off the old motors. Plus the injection system, wires and all accessories.

So before you think you got something 99% of everyone else didnt, i would do a little investigating on my own. Anything with a cast manifold is either an FQR replacement or a factory '97-'99. All 2000/2001 have the plastic intake. And trust me, they didnt pull a perfectly good intake off a new engine, that makes no sense at all. You might want to ammed that dealer satisfaction form since they have obviously not been straight with you.

As for advice, what I would to in retrospect is keep the original motor, make Ford back the truck with the ESP (by the way they dont cost $3500, try $800 dealer cost, you might pay $1000-1500 but not $3500) and then sell the damn thing while it was still under warranty, that way at least its the original motor, and is not devalued.

Then go buy a Toyota with a real V8, i just got a Sequoia a couple months ago, the reason its not an Expo is because Ford has screwed around so bad with this truck. I have neither the time nor the patience for piddly excuses, bad customer service, and not fixing the problem. (In my case we keep replicating it)

Trust me, the build quality of the big Toyota (which is built in Princeton Indiana before you start waving the flag on me) is 10x better inside and out, start with the paint job and work your way from there.

 

Jgredtruck
Which dealer are you using?

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99 SC 4X4 5.4 ORP 3.73LS Lariat Black over Gold on Tan.
Mods-Powerdyne Supercharged,Superchip,Dual Flowmasters,Westin Nerf Bars, 305/70/16 GY M/T's, Extang Black Max Tonneau

 

JGred


First of all the FQR does not carry a 2/24, this is one of the misconceptions. FQR's only carry a 2/24 if bought over the counter. In your situation, it only carries a 12/12. Everyone spouts the 2/24 cause they have not taken the time to read their own service literature.

Keep the original, demand the 5/75, if they say it does not affect performance then tell them to look up compression loss. If it was not a problem, Ford would not be replacing all these engines. That line it total bull about no future problems. Especially when most everyone on here is having problems in the 12-30,000 range as it is. And yes make them assume the liability for all the other components if you go FQR like trannys, A/C, power steering etc. That was my argument on my 5/75 after my first FQR, I will not assume liabilty for all these components and Ford only assume 12/12 on the INTERNAL COMPONENTS of the FQR. Go back and read the warranty again.

A lot of people have that screwed up or once again, have been lied to repeatedly, and remember, someone is telling them to lie about it. Its happening to frequently to be just a shoddy dealer here and there, cause all the zone reps seem to be spouting this bull as well.

 

Although not happy about receiving an FQR, I had settled down after getting it because it ran good, got good mileage, and has good power.

NOW, just in the last week after turning 5k miles, it blows blue smoke at startup, has developed a stumbling idle, and when warm has a lifter tick or exhaust leak. Also seems to have lossed acceleration power. Oh yeah, and it smells, but I can't find any leaks anywhere.

One more trip to the Ford dealer for service...then I will probably be able to report to you what kind of trade-in value I get...

------------------
firstimeFord
99 SC 4x4 5.4 3.73LS

 

Mastercraft,

No bubble burst here!
As I had been following all the "slapping" threads here, even before I took delivery of the truck, I was well prep'd for the issue (thanks everyone). I was able to watch as the motor crate was opened -in front of me-. I kid you not, this is / was a *brand new* 5.4. I checked all over the motor before it was removed from the crate for an FQR sticker or any other sign that this was a rebuild. It has the Ford, for a lack of a better term, "OEM" sticker, in the same place as on the original motor. There was no valve cover swapping, or anything like you state. The motor installed had the same serial number as the one I saw in the crate. My old motor still had its' valve covers installed along with the original build date and serial number...there goes that idea.... I was also able to inspect the old motor after it was removed, and yes it was mine, as I had marked it (on the block, both heads, and "yes" valve covers.. how’s that for paranoid? ) before dropping it off to the dealer. The cast iron (thanks for clearing that up) intake was swapped due to the lack of some sort of piping / emissions issue with the plastic one, and was required to keep the motor compatible with the rest of the truck. Yes, it was an intake and not a dust cover... Plus, I'd rather have the cast iron instead of the plastic intake. Now, if for some chance you are still correct, which you are not... I'm still impressed with the quality of the replacement. It runs much better than the one that was removed...period.

IMHO, seems like you had some serious issues with your dealer, and are rather "bent" over it. I can't blame you. I'd be pi$$ed if my dealer screwd me like yours did to you. Believe me, I had no idea what I was up against while going through this ordeal. I was very happy with the out come. So again I say not all dealers / service departments are crooks, liars, or employ incompetent techs. I do hope you enjoy your Toyota as much as most of us enjoy our Fords, good luck. I will feel bad for the poor Toyota dealer should you have any problems with it... You need to check out some of the Toyota boards as well...can you say "Jap piston slap"?

As for my dealer, and changing the survey...
They worked with me every step of the way, and went far above what they legaly had to do for me. They respected my request not to open the crate before I could get there, and allowed me to inspect it "to my satisfaction". They also let me inspect my old motor as well. The engine tech also had issues with my torque converter (none that I was able to notice) and replaced it. I, for the most part, have nothing bad to say about my service department. All work is completed when they say it will, and they do a "clean" job. I didn't receive a single scratch, dent or nick when they yanked out the motor, and that's not easy. I consider myself extremely fortunate to have a service dept like this. I respect the SMs and the techs, they have their jobs to do, and guide lines to follow. The techs do a great job for what little they are paid. If for receiving the service that I do, means giving them high marks on a survey (that they did earn)then, by all means, I will. It's worth the 10 min of my time to fill it out, if that's what keeps me out of legal / dispute issues, and makes my SM happy.

As for the devaluation....My use of the truck over time (many years) will cause more than having the motor replaced (even with an FQR). Granted there are some people that swap trucks every couple of years and this is a big issue to them.. and rightly so. Everyone will handle things in their own way and to ends that satisfy them. This doesn't mean that everyone on this board needs to bash their respective dealers' door down....


[This message has been edited by S-76 (edited 03-28-2001).]

[This message has been edited by S-76 (edited 03-28-2001).]

 

Oh, I see where you are coming from now. You still have not answered the question about losing $1-2k because of a FQR.
You seem very knowledgeable of this situation but the more I read, the more it sounds like you have a vendetta against Ford. No flame intended, just my opinion.

 

Still waiting to hear from someone who traded a FQR and lost money because of it. Thanks.

 

The Toyota will NEVER be the truck a FORD is. PERIOD!!!

------------------
2001 SCREW - 4.6L, White, Lariat, Moonroof, Towing Package

 

When they get finished buying back this '99 I will tell you first hand of the devaluation, since this is the 2nd one they have bought back from me.

(Yeah i said 2)

 

Well I guess I am curious how you were able to get a new motor when the zone reps will not allow this. So if its as you say it is, then explain how you managed to do what everyone else cant. As for a piping and emissions issue, I have never heard of that, the difference in a '97-'99 and 2001/2001 is the plastic intake, the exhauset manifolds, the grounding, and the heater hoses. I know of no other "compatibility" issues on swapping a motor. And I bet if you checked into it, swapping an manifold off a new motor would void a warranty, since it has been tampered with.

As for a charge I have a vendetta or biased. I will tell you I have worn out more Ford trucks than most people will ever own. Most of mine have run 200-300,000 or more. But it only takes one bad expereince to sour you on anything. And for me, this makes two in a row, not one. Its how they treat you, (not just the dealers but Ford Motor Company, zone, national, and powertrain) and this continual parade of excuses, double talk and denial is just laughable at best.

Yep, this is my first big Toyota, and no that does not make me biased toward anyone, if Ford had taken the lead and fixed my problem to start with, I would not be driving it. So there is no "I see where you are coming from" Where I am coming from is a consumer point of view without any redneck bais toward Chevy/Ford/Dodge. (Those of you who think a Toyota cant beat a Ford can go back and put the Calvin sticker in your back window of him peeing on whatvever you dont like) Shows a lot of class, funny how you never see a BMW with one of those stickers, with Calvin peeing on a Lexus.

See my slappy 5.4's are built in Canada, my Toyota powertrain is built in Japan, either way, neither of them are built here. (the Toyota V8 will be built in Huntsville Alabama starting in march 2002) In fact a majority of parts in any F150 are now sublet out and come from all over. The days of the "american truck" are over. Its nice to be nostalgic, but its over. My Michelin, Toyo, and Yoko tires are built in France and Japan. I dont care where anything is built, I care about the quality and what I spend my family's money on. I dont need a lesson in patriotism, or some union speech to tell me what my experince has been over the past 25 years with both foreign and domestic products.

Sure I have had great service out of most of my Ford trucks, and terrible service out of any of my Chevrolet trucks since 1985. I am grown tired of bad trannys adn excuses from GM just as I have grown tired of excuses from Ford over the 5.4. I am not a guinea pig, i dont care to sweat the defect no matter who made them. Ford has bought back 2 trucks from me, Chevrolet one. That makes me 3-3. And probably more adept at speaking with any experience than anyone else on here.


That does not make me biased, just experienced.

 

Mastercraft,

How did I do it? Ya' know, I don't have a good answer for you on this one, to be honest. It is just how it turned out. I would attribute most of my success to the good people of this site and a great service dept.. Untill I came accross it, I had no idea that there is such a thing as piston slap. I do now know that it is more wide spread and not only effects Fords. It seems to be a combination of different metal types in the heads and pistons, compounded by the piston design itself. I am by no means an engine expert, but from reading replys from very knowledgable people here, this is what I have deducted.

I do understand how you have become soured, how many dealers have you tried? It seems to me that if you have a good SM behind you, you don't have to worry about zone reps and the such. I can only relate to you about the service I have received. If you search the board you will find that I was not the only one to get a *new* motor. It all boiled down to the guide lines of the TSB I guess. Like I said, I didn't have to complain, raise my voice, or anything. I was always treated with respect and I gave it back. I have a realistic view that there is a limit to what even the most customer focused SM can do. I'm afraid that I can't say the same about the sales people, but the service dept is good.

As for the intake, all that was said to me was "that's what Ford said to do..", so it's not a warranty issue. It was done by a Ford tech at Fords' direction. There "suposedly" is an extra connection on the cast iron intake that is not there on the plastic one. What does it matter any way? I think I made out on the deal here. Why would I want (if given the choice) a plastic intake over the cast iron one?

I truly wish you luck with your new SUV. I will spare the "USA #1" comments, but I will never buy a Japanese car or truck. Even though the product may be built here, the profits go back to the home land. I will contibute to my own economy. Just realize that Toyota, Honda..and so on operate service depts as well.... I hope you never have to visit one, and if you do, you are treated with the repect you deserve, and are entitled to. Now where is Raoul???

 

Yeah you top have a point that it all starts at the dealer, but my selling dealer was a total dud, the zone sent me to another dealer (thier call) who actually did try and help me. The problem is as long as you keep replacing a piece of junk with a piece of junk, we get nowhere. I asked for a new not FQR from the start, the zone and the dealer both refused to do this after being asked repeatedly. Even after the 1st, 2nd and 3rd engines failed. Now #4 and they still wont send me a new one. So they are left to buy it back. Which of course does not bother me, I am walking off with a 2001. But its so stupid to spend all this money replacing engine after engine and keep getting the same result. If they had sent me a new motor to start with, I might not be in this shape, but the zone calls the shots, not me or my service manager or dealer. They are all at the mercy of the zone and powertrain engineers.

I am very familiar with service departments in Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Volvo, BMW, and Mercedes. That is one thing we compare out american service departments to. Most of them make their money off maintainence work. Most american dealers make theirs off warranty. Look at your dealer and see what he is working on, the majority of things back there are still in warranty. And it does not matter if its Ford, Chevy, or Dodge for that matter. I dont see Tundras lined up coming back for motors, Hondas lined up coming back for tranny like Rams and C1500's. Or BMW's with the paint coming off after two years.

Most people in a Volvo, Honda, etc service department are there for brakes, clutches, or whatever. Not major repairs. So yes I am familiar how and what they do also with dealers and zones. Its not a one sided view. And to answer your question, there are two Honda dealers in the south that everyone else could learn from. One is in LaGrange Georgia and is run by Phillip Sparks, who was a Ford service manager for years. This guy is the sharpest service manager I have ever seen, he was my service manager for years at Ford.

See one thing most foreign service departments beat the americans ears in on is loaners, and getting it done on time. If its promised today, its today. And having something to drive thats new, well they sell a lot by getting your rear in a new one. But americans tend to holler and scream and not pay for loaners or rentals. Even with a major powertrain failure. And if they do its always seems to be a Focus with 48,000 miles that has been wrecked and smoked in and pulls to the left.


Are american products better? Sure, we had a long way to go and we made a lot of crappy cars in the 80's and early 90's. But just look at the latest Consumer Reports on owner reported problems. Cadillac is a total joke compared to foreign luxery cars in reliability. American cars averaged 100+ defects per 100 units in 1980, the Japaneese only 25. In fact your beloved F150 pickup was one of the most unreliable back then.

Today american's average 23 per 100, but the Japaneese are down to 11 per 100. Most american cars are on par with the Japaneese quality in 1985. Look at the numbers, dont take my word for it. We have made major strides, but as long as we continue to put out E4OD's that dont last, 5.4's that knock, 3.8's with head gaskets made of dental floss, and such we have no one to blame but ourselves.

Its not their fault we made defective products as much as we would like to scapegoat them for it. You would have to explain to me how its Honda's or Toyota's fault that my 5.4's are crap. I didnt fight WW II, I can understand the metality of those that did and their adversion to their products. If anything you can thank the Japaneese and Germans for making american improve quality over the past 20 years. (that includes TV's, electronics, and cars!)It was get better or go broke back in the 80's.

All that aside, I can understand that there are bad products from anyone. But how you treat someone after there is no longer an argument about this is what I am driving at. Reguardless of all the arguments over quality/performance, there is no excuse for terrible customer service. Even if we can beat them head to head, we can always offer better customer service dont you think? You might be suprised how many people, including myself, might cut them some slack if they just stepped up and did the right thing from the start.

See my point?

 

Mastercraft,

I see your point, and share most of the customer service values you pointed out. Trying to find a company, either automotive or otherwise, like this is tough. I suppose that because my SM has worked with me on all my issues, I am able to cut them some slack. I didn't like the fact that my new truck with 12k miles on it, was getting a new motor. I would have liked it even less if I was getting an FQR, so I know where you are comming from. Not to make light of your situation, but I chalk it up as another dealer horror story. Ford does need to get with the program here. With the million plus cars and trucks they produce on a yearly basis, a good percentage will have some sort of warranty claim. It is up to the service dept on how well this will go. If you treat your customer right, you build product loyalty, and in your case, not treated right, drives the customer to the competition. It's a simple concept, and I don't understand why this is such a problem here in the US.
I will say that atleast Ford continues to buy back your lemons, and man, what a bad streak you have had. I would probably do the same as you, but I'd be hard pressed on what to buy. Dodge and Chevy just don't do it for me. As the son and grandson of Army vets, I will not disshonor thier sacrifices and and contribute to an economy that in some instances survives off the suffering of thier citizens. If you look at some current events around the world, we may very well be in some trouble in the near or distant future.

My 150 is the second Ford I have owned. I had an 82 Bronco w/302 that I just loved. It killed me to get rid of it. Prior to that I had a 76 Ram charger with a 318. The body fell apart, but the motor ran like it was new. After the the Ram was an 80 full size Blazer. I owned that POS for 6 months but only drove it for 2. Between the Bronco and the 150 were various GM cars. So far the 150 has been all I expected and more, sans motor issue. I don't baby it, but she's still as solid as the day I took delivery. My next one most likly will be the Screw (gotta' love the thoughs that conjures up ).