Some answers about oil analysis
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From: Langenburg,Sask., Canada
Oilman, I run Esso Superflo synthetic. I believe this product is a re-badged version of Exxon Superflo. I've never heard a word about these oils on this board and was wondering if you had any insight? Thanks, Roden.
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From: Santa Clarita, CA USA
The dilemma to use Petroleum or synthetic is one that is a personal decision. Now that that is said, lets look at the situation closer.
Synthetic oils on average are better than petroleum oils overall. That does not mean that synthetics are better than all petroleum oils. That also does not mean that petroleum oils are better than synthetic oils. There are different base oils that make up synthetics, some are better than others are, some help each other with additive fall-out, and some resist oxidation more than others. Let's look at petroleum oils. There are different base oils that make up petroleum products, some are better than others are, some resist oxidation more that others. Additive fall-out does not seem to be a problem with petroleum oils.
Given that information, it would depend on what base oils were used, how they were refined or made, the type of additives used, and the amounts of additive treat. All of this can be changed if the sequence of the processes is changed. So you see that there could be thousands of different ways to make oil, some better some not so good.
It is a fact that you can NOT make premium oil without it costing more money. It is also a fact that just because your oil costs more money does not make it premium oil. This is the dilemma of most oil purchasers. "If I buy this more expensive oil is it actually better?".
A premium oil (synthetic or petroleum) will do things better than an average oil. They will reduce wear, resist oxidation, have less volatility, leave fewer deposits, provide a more stable viscosity (thin out less at high temperatures and thicken less at low temperatures), reduce fuel consumption, reduced oil consumption, and probably more that I am not thing of.
If you are not going to go longer between oil changes, then the oils that I would suggest are;
Quaker State
Havoline Formula 3
These oils have a semi-low wear rate but not very good oxidation resistance. If you were to run these oils a short oil drain, you would be fine. You also would not get most of the above mentioned benefits. If you lease your truck or plan on selling it in 2 or 3 years, then using average oil is the best for saving money during the time you have the truck.
On the other hand if you own your truck or want to keep it for a long time, then I would recommend using premium oil like;
Mobil-1
Lubrication Engineers 8530
Amsoil (not API licensed)
Royal Purple
These oils will give you the benefits I talked about above. They will do this if you just want to change your oil at the regular intervals or if you want to go longer between oil changes. These oils will pay you back in less wear, less oil consumption, better mileage, etc.
In the viscosity that your truck should take 5w-30 (or less), there is only one oil that is not synthetic. That one is semi-synthetic (LE 8530). The LE oil has half of the wear of the Mobil-1 and very close to the same oxidation resistance.
2001, in your area there is another option. Petro Canada has come up with oil that is starting to look great.
Like I said in the beginning, it is a personal decision to use synthetic or petroleum oil. It should be a decision based of the cold temps (synthetic is better) the type of driving you do, if you are going to keep the truck a long time, etc. For the record, I use the LE 8530.
I hope this helps you in your decision between synthetic Vs petroleum.
Sincerely, Kevin
Synthetic oils on average are better than petroleum oils overall. That does not mean that synthetics are better than all petroleum oils. That also does not mean that petroleum oils are better than synthetic oils. There are different base oils that make up synthetics, some are better than others are, some help each other with additive fall-out, and some resist oxidation more than others. Let's look at petroleum oils. There are different base oils that make up petroleum products, some are better than others are, some resist oxidation more that others. Additive fall-out does not seem to be a problem with petroleum oils.
Given that information, it would depend on what base oils were used, how they were refined or made, the type of additives used, and the amounts of additive treat. All of this can be changed if the sequence of the processes is changed. So you see that there could be thousands of different ways to make oil, some better some not so good.
It is a fact that you can NOT make premium oil without it costing more money. It is also a fact that just because your oil costs more money does not make it premium oil. This is the dilemma of most oil purchasers. "If I buy this more expensive oil is it actually better?".
A premium oil (synthetic or petroleum) will do things better than an average oil. They will reduce wear, resist oxidation, have less volatility, leave fewer deposits, provide a more stable viscosity (thin out less at high temperatures and thicken less at low temperatures), reduce fuel consumption, reduced oil consumption, and probably more that I am not thing of.
If you are not going to go longer between oil changes, then the oils that I would suggest are;
Quaker State
Havoline Formula 3
These oils have a semi-low wear rate but not very good oxidation resistance. If you were to run these oils a short oil drain, you would be fine. You also would not get most of the above mentioned benefits. If you lease your truck or plan on selling it in 2 or 3 years, then using average oil is the best for saving money during the time you have the truck.
On the other hand if you own your truck or want to keep it for a long time, then I would recommend using premium oil like;
Mobil-1
Lubrication Engineers 8530
Amsoil (not API licensed)
Royal Purple
These oils will give you the benefits I talked about above. They will do this if you just want to change your oil at the regular intervals or if you want to go longer between oil changes. These oils will pay you back in less wear, less oil consumption, better mileage, etc.
In the viscosity that your truck should take 5w-30 (or less), there is only one oil that is not synthetic. That one is semi-synthetic (LE 8530). The LE oil has half of the wear of the Mobil-1 and very close to the same oxidation resistance.
2001, in your area there is another option. Petro Canada has come up with oil that is starting to look great.
Like I said in the beginning, it is a personal decision to use synthetic or petroleum oil. It should be a decision based of the cold temps (synthetic is better) the type of driving you do, if you are going to keep the truck a long time, etc. For the record, I use the LE 8530.
I hope this helps you in your decision between synthetic Vs petroleum.
Sincerely, Kevin
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From: Santa Clarita, CA USA
2000 F150 4x4,
for the bypass filter, contact MSParks. The Amsoil filter is good for the little money you pay for it, about $160.00 it think. There is another filter that costs about $400.00 but it is the best.
Raoul,
What cape do you wear when you are goat hearding?
roden,
I have nothing on the ESSO product that you are using. It is not a popular oil and we did not test it, sorry.
Sincerely, Kevin
for the bypass filter, contact MSParks. The Amsoil filter is good for the little money you pay for it, about $160.00 it think. There is another filter that costs about $400.00 but it is the best.
Raoul,
What cape do you wear when you are goat hearding?
roden,
I have nothing on the ESSO product that you are using. It is not a popular oil and we did not test it, sorry.
Sincerely, Kevin
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 632
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From: DOT BOMB CITY!
Oil Man & MSPARKS:
"Amsoil (not API licensed)"
What does that mean and why is it not licensed?
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Rand
98 Ford Expedition 4X4 XLT
5.4, 3.73s, 17" wheels,
Homemade 3" "COLD" Air-Box
mod, SuperChip, Amsoil
everywhere but tranny, Perma-
Cool combo 6 pass trans/oil
cooler (FQR 5.4 @ 50K)
"Amsoil (not API licensed)"
What does that mean and why is it not licensed?
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Rand
98 Ford Expedition 4X4 XLT
5.4, 3.73s, 17" wheels,
Homemade 3" "COLD" Air-Box
mod, SuperChip, Amsoil
everywhere but tranny, Perma-
Cool combo 6 pass trans/oil
cooler (FQR 5.4 @ 50K)
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,160
Likes: 0
From: Clarksville, Tennessee
Rand,
Some of Amsoil's oil's are not API licensed,
which only means that it doesnt' have the little doghnut and starbusrt on the bottle.
But All of Amsoil's oil exceeds the specified criteria and performance that each oil has listed in their data sheets.
For instance SAE 5W-30 SYNTHETIC MOTOR OIL: API Service SH, SJ, CF
AMSOIL 100% 5W-30 Motor Oil is designed to provide maximum benefits in gasoline-fueled engines. It meets or exceeds
the following specifications:
API SH-SJ-CF
Chrysler MS 6395 H
Ford WSS M2C-153G
GM 4718-M
VW 500.00, 501.01 and 505.00
Energy Conserving II
ILSAC GF-1, GF-2
Mercedes-Benz AG 226.1
Also note other high end oil's are not licesned, to include Redline synthetic and Neo synthetic.
All that the starburst means is that the oil company paid a fee to put that symbol on their bottle. Companies Like Amsoil and Redline chose not to do this. Does this mean they are not some of the best oils on the market?
For instance Amsoil's XL7500 is liscensed and certified. This is Amsoil's cheapest oil and is only designed for 7500 miles, though it's still great oil as far as synthetics go the regular 5w30 is far better at protecting your engine: http://amsoil.com/products/xlf.html
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Lube-Direct
New Lubrication Forums
[This message has been edited by msparks (edited 12-07-2000).]
Some of Amsoil's oil's are not API licensed,
which only means that it doesnt' have the little doghnut and starbusrt on the bottle.
But All of Amsoil's oil exceeds the specified criteria and performance that each oil has listed in their data sheets.
For instance SAE 5W-30 SYNTHETIC MOTOR OIL: API Service SH, SJ, CF
AMSOIL 100% 5W-30 Motor Oil is designed to provide maximum benefits in gasoline-fueled engines. It meets or exceeds
the following specifications:
API SH-SJ-CF
Chrysler MS 6395 H
Ford WSS M2C-153G
GM 4718-M
VW 500.00, 501.01 and 505.00
Energy Conserving II
ILSAC GF-1, GF-2
Mercedes-Benz AG 226.1
Also note other high end oil's are not licesned, to include Redline synthetic and Neo synthetic.
All that the starburst means is that the oil company paid a fee to put that symbol on their bottle. Companies Like Amsoil and Redline chose not to do this. Does this mean they are not some of the best oils on the market?
For instance Amsoil's XL7500 is liscensed and certified. This is Amsoil's cheapest oil and is only designed for 7500 miles, though it's still great oil as far as synthetics go the regular 5w30 is far better at protecting your engine: http://amsoil.com/products/xlf.html
------------------
Lube-Direct
New Lubrication Forums
[This message has been edited by msparks (edited 12-07-2000).]
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 411
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From: Calgary, Canada
MOBIL 1 5W-30 "synthetic" will be my choice next oil change for the following reason's...
1: My truck sit's for long periods without start up's.
2: Most of my driving is short trip's.
3: Pulling a 19' boat in the summer and a 4 place snowmobile trailer in the winter...Triton need's good oil when pulling!
4: Oil changes on my truck are far and few in between due to the low Km's I dive each year. My truck is 10 months old with only 7,500KM on it...truck sits most of the time!
5: Living in the great white North, good oil on cold start up's is a good thing to have!
6: Lastly...Mobil 1 5W-30 "synthetic" will give me a good piece of mind...and the plastic bottles Mobil comes in are very cool looking!
Thanks to all that have provided this board with the great comments and feedback on this subject of oil...keep up the great work guys!
1: My truck sit's for long periods without start up's.
2: Most of my driving is short trip's.
3: Pulling a 19' boat in the summer and a 4 place snowmobile trailer in the winter...Triton need's good oil when pulling!
4: Oil changes on my truck are far and few in between due to the low Km's I dive each year. My truck is 10 months old with only 7,500KM on it...truck sits most of the time!
5: Living in the great white North, good oil on cold start up's is a good thing to have!
6: Lastly...Mobil 1 5W-30 "synthetic" will give me a good piece of mind...and the plastic bottles Mobil comes in are very cool looking!
Thanks to all that have provided this board with the great comments and feedback on this subject of oil...keep up the great work guys!
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,160
Likes: 0
From: Clarksville, Tennessee
2001,
If you want the best protection for your truck that sits for long periods, check out Mobil1's 0w30: http://www.mobil1.com/
This stuff can be used year round and will give you the best cold/hot weather protection over most conventional 5w30 and 10w30 oil's
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Lube-Direct
New Lubrication Forums
[This message has been edited by msparks (edited 12-07-2000).]
If you want the best protection for your truck that sits for long periods, check out Mobil1's 0w30: http://www.mobil1.com/
This stuff can be used year round and will give you the best cold/hot weather protection over most conventional 5w30 and 10w30 oil's
------------------
Lube-Direct
New Lubrication Forums
[This message has been edited by msparks (edited 12-07-2000).]
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From: Santa Clarita, CA USA
Rand,
It costs about $250,000 to put an oil through the tests required for todays current CH-4, SJ specs. It costs about $875. to license an oil with the API. Since it only costs $875. Then this might mean that Amsoil did not put their oil through the required tests. For instance, the maximum amount of phosphorus is 1000 ppm. To actually get the API SJ rating you must not have more than 1000 ppm. The Amsoil products 5w30 and 10w30 both have about 1300 ppm of phosphorus. This in and of itself would mean that Amsoil could not pass the API SJ rating. The reason for the maximum amount of phosphorus is that the engine manufactures do not want excess amount of phosphours in the cat-converter. They feel that it will poison it and cause problems.
This is only one reason. There are other Amsoil guys that say Amsoil does not want to get licensed because they change their formula so often. First of all there should be no reason to change their formula, and second they say they would have to give their formula to the API and then everyone would see how Amsoil makes their products. This also is not true. I know that Lubrication Engineers uses a chemical called Monolec and a very robust additive package. They are licenced by the API and nobody else has coppied their formula. The API could be sued to the max if they were to give out any formulas. This just does not happen. So why does Amsoil not licence their oils??? I'm not sure, but I can figure some of it out.
Sincerely, Kevin
It costs about $250,000 to put an oil through the tests required for todays current CH-4, SJ specs. It costs about $875. to license an oil with the API. Since it only costs $875. Then this might mean that Amsoil did not put their oil through the required tests. For instance, the maximum amount of phosphorus is 1000 ppm. To actually get the API SJ rating you must not have more than 1000 ppm. The Amsoil products 5w30 and 10w30 both have about 1300 ppm of phosphorus. This in and of itself would mean that Amsoil could not pass the API SJ rating. The reason for the maximum amount of phosphorus is that the engine manufactures do not want excess amount of phosphours in the cat-converter. They feel that it will poison it and cause problems.
This is only one reason. There are other Amsoil guys that say Amsoil does not want to get licensed because they change their formula so often. First of all there should be no reason to change their formula, and second they say they would have to give their formula to the API and then everyone would see how Amsoil makes their products. This also is not true. I know that Lubrication Engineers uses a chemical called Monolec and a very robust additive package. They are licenced by the API and nobody else has coppied their formula. The API could be sued to the max if they were to give out any formulas. This just does not happen. So why does Amsoil not licence their oils??? I'm not sure, but I can figure some of it out.
Sincerely, Kevin
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 243
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From: Georgia
Oil Man,
I switched to synthetic (Mobil 1) at 3000 miles about three weeks ago. The old stuff was pretty nasty so I'd like to hve it anylized. It's been sitting in the bottle in my garage ever since. Can I still have it tested?
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Stock Stuff:
Y2K SCab 4X4, Chesnut Metallic, 5.4L, 3.55 Limited Slip, Skid Plates, Factory AM/FM/CD, 40/60 Split Bench, Sliding Rear Window, Towing Package and Keyless Entry.
Extras so far:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...3401&a=8556922
I switched to synthetic (Mobil 1) at 3000 miles about three weeks ago. The old stuff was pretty nasty so I'd like to hve it anylized. It's been sitting in the bottle in my garage ever since. Can I still have it tested?
------------------
Stock Stuff:
Y2K SCab 4X4, Chesnut Metallic, 5.4L, 3.55 Limited Slip, Skid Plates, Factory AM/FM/CD, 40/60 Split Bench, Sliding Rear Window, Towing Package and Keyless Entry.
Extras so far:
- GY 305/70X16 Wrangler ATS Tires
- American Eagle Series 146 Chrome Wheels
- Ravin Z-55 3" Single In/Out Exhaust System
- WMS Velocity Tube
- K&N Filter
- Blaupunkt Houston CD Player
- Blaupunkt PCxt573 Speakers
- Clear Corner Lenses
- PIAA Super White Bulbs
- GTS Hood Deflector
- Catch-All Floor Mats
- Tinted Windows
- Bull Ring Retractable Tie-Downs
- www.f150online.com Sticker (below center brake light)
- University of Georgia Hitch Cover "GO DAWGS!"
- No more mods for a while. With the threat of a possible Gore White House I have to stock up on GUNS!
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...3401&a=8556922
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,160
Likes: 0
From: Clarksville, Tennessee
onemilmhz,
Technically yes you can have it analyized, but weather it is accurate would be the question.
Analysis should be a representative sample of the oil as it is being used.
The sample should be at operating temperature so that any solids are proportionatly suspended in the oil. Also any moisture or fuel is diluted as it is comming from the equipment that it is taken.
If you pour the sample from a used jug there could be used oil from previous drains. If the oil is cold fuel or moisture could be separated out of the mixture. Also there could be traces of dirt or other chemicals in the jug that would show up on the analysis I don't know what type of jug it is. Also if you just drained the oil and didn't clean the area before dirt from around the drain plug could be in there. Remember we are talking Parts per million(PPM) and any type of contaminant can make a difference. Hence why either a sampling valve or suck out of the dipstick will give you the most accurate analysis.
So my final answer is!!! You would be wasting your money to do a sample on the oil that has been drained out and has been sitting for a couple of weeks. You are better off taking a sample of what is in your engine at say about 3,000 miles to see what your engine/oil is doing currently!!
------------------
Lube-Direct
New Lubrication Forums
Technically yes you can have it analyized, but weather it is accurate would be the question.
Analysis should be a representative sample of the oil as it is being used.
The sample should be at operating temperature so that any solids are proportionatly suspended in the oil. Also any moisture or fuel is diluted as it is comming from the equipment that it is taken.
If you pour the sample from a used jug there could be used oil from previous drains. If the oil is cold fuel or moisture could be separated out of the mixture. Also there could be traces of dirt or other chemicals in the jug that would show up on the analysis I don't know what type of jug it is. Also if you just drained the oil and didn't clean the area before dirt from around the drain plug could be in there. Remember we are talking Parts per million(PPM) and any type of contaminant can make a difference. Hence why either a sampling valve or suck out of the dipstick will give you the most accurate analysis.
So my final answer is!!! You would be wasting your money to do a sample on the oil that has been drained out and has been sitting for a couple of weeks. You are better off taking a sample of what is in your engine at say about 3,000 miles to see what your engine/oil is doing currently!!
------------------
Lube-Direct
New Lubrication Forums
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 680
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From: Northwest Iowa, '00 F-150 Harley-Davidson
This has probably been asked before, but I'm going to ask again. I have a 5.4L with 800 miles on it now. This truck will likely be driven less than 5,000 miles a year and in the winter (right now) it is on a float charger in a heated garage. It will probably only go out once every few weeks on sunny days. 
I was going to put in petroleum at 1000 on its first change and then at 3000 or 4000 switch to Mobil 1 0-30w.
I have Mobil 1 in my scoots and in my wife's Explorer, but waited on them until they had a few miles on them.
Would it be better to wait now, as I had planned, or go right to synthetic at 1000 miles? Or, does it really not make much difference?
Thanks,
Don
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2000 F-150 Harley-Davidson
Hard Tonneau Cover
Superchip
'99 FLHRCI '95 XLH
I was going to put in petroleum at 1000 on its first change and then at 3000 or 4000 switch to Mobil 1 0-30w.I have Mobil 1 in my scoots and in my wife's Explorer, but waited on them until they had a few miles on them.
Would it be better to wait now, as I had planned, or go right to synthetic at 1000 miles? Or, does it really not make much difference?
Thanks,
Don
------------------
2000 F-150 Harley-Davidson
Hard Tonneau Cover
Superchip
'99 FLHRCI '95 XLH
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,759
Likes: 4
From: Friendswood Texas
2 things to remember:
1. just about every engine uses,burns consumes(whatever you call it). my 97 f250 uses about a 1/2 to a 1/4 of a quart every 3,000 miles, i dont check my oil level as often as i should, so when i get it changed at 3,000 miles i know the level is right. while there is some debate about the advantages of synthetic, run it with low oil levels and i think we will all agree what will happen.
2. if you truck does not get run very often there will be condensation. i have a fork lift i put about 1 hour of use a week on. i have to change the oil every 3 months reguardless because of the condensation build - up. it turns the oil kind of milky. so dont put sythetic in a low use vehicle and think that the oil only has x amount of miles, no need for change.
i still use regular oil, old habits die hard.
1. just about every engine uses,burns consumes(whatever you call it). my 97 f250 uses about a 1/2 to a 1/4 of a quart every 3,000 miles, i dont check my oil level as often as i should, so when i get it changed at 3,000 miles i know the level is right. while there is some debate about the advantages of synthetic, run it with low oil levels and i think we will all agree what will happen.
2. if you truck does not get run very often there will be condensation. i have a fork lift i put about 1 hour of use a week on. i have to change the oil every 3 months reguardless because of the condensation build - up. it turns the oil kind of milky. so dont put sythetic in a low use vehicle and think that the oil only has x amount of miles, no need for change.
i still use regular oil, old habits die hard.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,160
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From: Clarksville, Tennessee
Harley guy,
I believe there are benifits of using synthetics in a low usage vehicle. But as brotherdave said you still have to be careful.
One thing that will stop the condensation problem is that when you do use the vehicle you make sure it get up to operating temperature for at least 30-45 minutes.
Synthetics will fight of the the formation of acid--which is the number 1 effect of condensation. Also you want a good oil with the proper additves to fight off the acid formation.
You might even want to check out a diesel type of oil that is also rated for gas engine it a good weight.
Mobil makes a synthetic 5w40 called Delvac. That would be a good one:
Also you might want to look at chevron's Delo sytnethic 0w30, even though it is primarly a diesel oil it is secondary SJ rated and would be better for deposit control and acid formation since it has a TBN of 10:
But then again regular Mobil1 is okay too!
[This message has been edited by msparks (edited 12-08-2000).]
I believe there are benifits of using synthetics in a low usage vehicle. But as brotherdave said you still have to be careful.
One thing that will stop the condensation problem is that when you do use the vehicle you make sure it get up to operating temperature for at least 30-45 minutes.
Synthetics will fight of the the formation of acid--which is the number 1 effect of condensation. Also you want a good oil with the proper additves to fight off the acid formation.
You might even want to check out a diesel type of oil that is also rated for gas engine it a good weight.
Mobil makes a synthetic 5w40 called Delvac. That would be a good one:
Also you might want to look at chevron's Delo sytnethic 0w30, even though it is primarly a diesel oil it is secondary SJ rated and would be better for deposit control and acid formation since it has a TBN of 10:
But then again regular Mobil1 is okay too!
[This message has been edited by msparks (edited 12-08-2000).]