Does anyone have problems with “Oxygenated Gasoline"? This is a bad time of year for any type of performance gasoline in the Seattle area. For as of November 1 till March 1 we get to use this “Crap Gas”. With oxygenates like ethanol and MTBE (Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether).
I realize some areas like Phoenix get this stuff year around, (I’m Sorry)… We have not had to use this stuff for quite a while but due to traffic volume the EPA said we must.

Does anyone know of an additive to counteract this LOW ENERGY fuel? Does anyone know where I can get an affordable Octane tester? I think I have been getting ripped off at the pump buying 92 when It runs like 87 octane. (pings a little with a very noticeable power loss). All my buddies are having the same problem and all are looking for a Counter Agent. Please help….


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2000 Navigator. Laser Red, Every option. , (DOHC) cams-32 valve Intech , (6) Bolt Mains, K&N FIPK , Superchip, True Duel Flowmaster 50 series. 2X SISO , vented out each side. Rear air deflector, Bug deflector, PIAA, headlights (SUPERWHITE)

Looking at Hitting 400 Hp without a blower. Using in addition, headers (If possible)
(Waiting for JBA to develope Headers)

“91” F150 4X4 Shorty “Ultimate Off Road Edition” Borge Warner T18 4 speed, Traction Lock Front and Rear Differentials., Smitty Built Duel Tube Roll Bar, Moog Super Off Road Coil Springs, Factory 2” Lift Rancho RS 9000 Shocks , Stock Front “QUAD SETUP” 33x12.5 (B.F. Goodrich) Mud Terrain Warn Winch Combo Bush Bar with Warn XD9000I Winch. Full Factory Skid Plates. 302 Long Block, K&N FIPK JBA Chrome Headers, Custom Catback using Flowmaster Muffler, Duel out side behind rear wheel.

 

Oh yes
What is the Max percent of ethanol that our vehicles can handle before damage will occur ?
I remember reading somewhere that damage to my engine will occur if a mixture of 5-10% ethanol or higher is used. Is this correct?

Is there another area on this site that this should be posted?



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2000 Navigator. Laser Red, Every option. , (DOHC) cams-32 valve Intech , (6) Bolt Mains, K&N FIPK , Superchip, True Duel Flowmaster 50 series. 2X SISO , vented out each side. Rear air deflector, Bug deflector, PIAA, headlights (SUPERWHITE)

Looking at Hitting 400 Hp without a blower. Using in addition, headers (If possible)
(Waiting for JBA to develope Headers)

“91” F150 4X4 Shorty “Ultimate Off Road Edition” Borge Warner T18 4 speed, Traction Lock Front and Rear Differentials., Smitty Built Duel Tube Roll Bar, Moog Super Off Road Coil Springs, Factory 2” Lift Rancho RS 9000 Shocks , Stock Front “QUAD SETUP” 33x12.5 (B.F. Goodrich) Mud Terrain Warn Winch Combo Bush Bar with Warn XD9000I Winch. Full Factory Skid Plates. 302 Long Block, K&N FIPK JBA Chrome Headers, Custom Catback using Flowmaster Muffler, Duel out side behind rear wheel.

 

LaserNAV,
Dude, I'm sorry I can't give you any information about your gas questions. I can offer a solution, though. Just swap your 32-valver with my 'little' 4.6 (87 octane works just fine!) and I think you'll be set. I'm sorry, I just had to do that. I would love to have your 5.4 DOHC in my '97 SuperCab Lariat. I hope someone can help you with your problem. IF you would like to accept my offer, though, my number is ............ Good luck!

 

I feel your pain, a couple of the gas stations in my area always have the crap gas.I avoid them like the plague.

 

I must take this chance to reply to your concerns about "crap gas" as you call it.

After working in agricultural engineering for many years and working on a few ethanol research project I would like to give you a few facts about 'oxygenates' in petroleum based fuel.

You are correct in the fact that the total heat energy in one pound of ethanol/MTBE is lower than that of gasoline. 21,500 btu/lb for gasoline vs. 19,000 btu/lb for ethanol. While this does drop the overall heat energy in the gallon of fuel it is not a chance that you can in any way feel. With the common 10% mixture in gasoline the only possible difference you might seen would be 0.1 mpg difference if you could even tell.

We have worked on studies that have shown that there is no difference in the wear on engines or fuel systems due to oxygenates after 2000 operating hours. (at 30 mph = 60,000 equivalent miles on your trucks). On the positive side, ethanol especially is hydrophyllic, meaning it has an affinity for water. If you check a bottle of HEET the next time you are at the gas station, check the ingredients, number one is ethyl alcohol = ethanol. In cold climates, use ethanol and you eliminate the need for fuel system additives like HEET.

Another bonus, ethanol has a higher octane rating. Usually 87 is rated as 89 when mixed with ethanol. Remember, higher octane fuel doesn't contain anymore power, the octane raises the flashpoint, allowing for higher compression ratios before detonation.

So for those of you who are a little concerned about the use of oxygenated fuel, just because something is different or enforced by the federal government for environmental reasons doesn't automatically make it a bad thing.

I have a 91 ranger with over 130,000 miles on 10% ethanol blend, other than the body rusting off (I don't think caused by the ethanol) it runs like a top.

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2000 F150 SC SB 4x4 XLT
Trition 4.6, 5 sp manual, Factory class III tow package, sliding rear window,
3.55 LS pumpkins, P255 70R16 slippery when wet Goodyear RT/S, WMY1 Superchip!!!

Mods: Lund Deflecta-shield II, K & N filtercharger, Gibson 3" side swept cat back exhaust

 

I am going to have to disagree with part of what you said.Both of the stations here that always have the ethanol blend(up to 10 % is what the little sticker says) only have it in a 87 octane rating.Their higher octane fuels( 89 and 92) are ethanol free.

 

I have been using an inexpensive tester to measure the percentage of alcohol in gas for several winters now. It’s a Briggs & Stratton #100023, which is basically a graduated vial with a cap. You fill the vial with water up to a measured mark and top off with gas, shake up, let stand and read out the percentage of alcohol in the sample fuel. When my state stated the program about five years ago 5% were the average now it’s about 8% with some 10% samples on occasion.

I worked for one of the major oil companies in their pipeline division for several years. Every shipment was tested at least twice regardless of the source. This testing including an octane test for gas which required sophisticated lab equipment. If there were an inexpensive way to test octane, I too would be interested. Only recently has this state started random gas testing and as a result has busted several dealers for selling 87 as super.

 

Whytknyt:

Perhaps you can also tell the people about the NEGATIVE affects of MTBE. Apparently the gov was VERY wrong about this stuff "saving the environment!" Its showing up all over the place (e.g. drinking water, etc...)! They thought it was the answer to cleaner air. Well it might help the air but its not helping the rest of the environment. In fact, I understand its got a worse effect on the rest of the environment than burned gas without MTBE!!!

Any info on this subject?

 

Rand,

You are very correct about the negative environmental effects of MTBE. Being an organic carbon based material, it also loves water, so if it gets into the water you can't get it out, making any spills from your local gas station a horrific mess for the taxpayer to pay for. Also MTBE moves with the water, increasing the possibility that it will show up in your drinking water. That is why California is going to ethanol.

But ethanol is not the complete answer either. On the downside of ethanol, while reducing SOx emissions and lowering carbon monoxide emissions, it increases emmisions of NOx gasses, another family of greenhouse gasses. The ethanol is fairly harmless in the enviroment, as it absorbs water it dilutes itself into its surrounding system.

There are two different ways to look at this subject, automotive and enviromental, thanks for pointing that out.


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2000 F150 SC SB 4x4 XLT
Trition 4.6, 5 sp manual, Factory class III tow package, sliding rear window,
3.55 LS pumpkins, P255 70R16 slippery when wet Goodyear RT/S, WMY1 Superchip!!!

Mods: Lund Deflecta-shield II, K & N filtercharger, Gibson 3" side swept cat back exhaust

 

Hi Whytknyt
I don’t know about your 91 Ranger but I can feel the power difference right away with Oxygenated fuels. Around here all levels of Octane come with it. Also I don’t think the Oil companies would sell 89 octane (MTBE) enriched fuel, label it 87 Octane and sell it as 87 octane. I think what they do it take the 89 Octane add there oxygenates and sell it as 92 octane. With an inflated price for additives.
From the factory my truck says ONLY USE a Minimum of 91 Octane. Of coarse with mods my has a little higher requirement.

Does that “HEAT” additive really work against Oxygenates?



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2000 Navigator. Laser Red, Every option. , (DOHC) cams-32 valve Intech , (6) Bolt Mains, K&N FIPK , Superchip, True Duel Flowmaster 50 series. 2X SISO , vented out each side. Rear air deflector, Bug deflector, PIAA, headlights (SUPERWHITE)

Looking at Hitting 400 Hp without a blower. Using in addition, headers (If possible)
(Waiting for JBA to develope Headers)

“91” F150 4X4 Shorty “Ultimate Off Road Edition” Borge Warner T18 4 speed, Traction Lock Front and Rear Differentials., Smitty Built Duel Tube Roll Bar, Moog Super Off Road Coil Springs, Factory 2” Lift Rancho RS 9000 Shocks , Stock Front “QUAD SETUP” 33x12.5 (B.F. Goodrich) Mud Terrain Warn Winch Combo Bush Bar with Warn XD9000I Winch. Full Factory Skid Plates. 302 Long Block, K&N FIPK JBA Chrome Headers, Custom Catback using Flowmaster Muffler, Duel out side behind rear wheel.

 

Maybe it's just my truck, but I noticed a significant decline in mileage when the cooler weather set in, probably caused by oxygenated fuels, but recently my fuel economy has been improving. I'm wondering if the adaptive computers in the newer trucks actually can compesate for the fuel differences.

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2000 F150 XLT 4X4 Off Road 5.4L Reg. Cab 3.55

Performance Enhancemets:
K&N
WMS Velocity Tube
Gibson Sweptside

Audio Enhancements:
All of the above, plus
Sony C7000X HU
Cerwin-Vega SS2502 components(Front)
Blaupunkt PCxp573s(Rear)

Radio-delay mod

(For now)

 

I run Ethanol blend fuel in all my cars and trucks. I have NEVER noticed any power loss or problem, however I ONLY buy AMOCO Silver. The biggest problem you are having is NOT the oxegenates, but rather it is the change in formulation from "summer" fuel to "winter"
If you didn't change your truck wouldn't start in the cold. THink I am full of it? save some of that fuel next time and see what I mean when the first cold snap hits you and you still have summer fuel.

 

I don't believe the no start thing. We have a 500 gallon tank at home that usually gets filled in the summer. We've never had problems with winter starting. Gasoline will burn in any climate. You may be refering to deisel fuel. There is a difference with it. Without additives, deisel will literally gel in colder temperatures.

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2000 F150 XLT 4X4 Off Road 5.4L Reg. Cab 3.55

Performance Enhancemets:
K&N
WMS Velocity Tube
Gibson Sweptside

Audio Enhancements:
All of the above, plus
Sony C7000X HU
Cerwin-Vega SS2502 components(Front)
Blaupunkt PCxp573s(Rear)

Radio-delay mod

(For now)

 

Here is a link to some more information.
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/gas_qanda/oxygen.html

"Oxygenated gasoline reduces fuel economy an average of 2%-3% because oxygenates contain less energy"

It feels like 2-3% loss in power as well.. 2-3% increase in winter prices you now will buy 2-3% more gas.


[This message has been edited by LaserNAV (edited 12-08-2000).]

 

F150sven: I am in agreement with you. Winter blend fuels bare no relevence to winter starting. Because vehicles naturally run richer in the colder weather, the Winter blends contain oxygenates that help keep emissions to a lesser level of carbon byproducts. It does lower the energy content of the gas and you will have less gas mileage from using them. There is nothing in Winter blended gas to "help start during cold weather". We have had 500 gallon tanks filled during the Summer on the farm that we used well into the Winter in sub-zero weather. All our trucks and farm equipment never had a problem starting on that gas.