Fram vs factory oil filters
Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 99
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From: Baytown, Texas, USA
I don't know very much about this topic, but found all of the post informative, interesting, and entertaining. My question is... Where does Valvoline oil and filters rank in this mix? (tell me, I can take it) That is what is used at the place that I get my oil changed. Thanks alot -- Martin
Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 99
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From: Baytown, Texas, USA
I found these posts to be very informative and interesting. I don't know very much about this and was wondering where Valvoline oil and filters rank with all of the others? This is what they use in the shop that changes my oil. Should I change? Thanks -- Martin
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 165
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From: Brooklyn Center,MN,USA
T oil is good it is what I use but the filter I don't know much about it if it were my truck I would bring it in because it sounds like your bring it into a quick lube and they don't always care what is the best for your truck..(I know I work at one for 4 years). So I would bring in your own filter..
Allan
------------------
1999 F150 Bright Red Extended Cab 4x4 Off Road, With Gray Interior, 5.4L, 3.73 Gears,
Add On's for now!
Access Tunnel Cover
Stainless Steel Nerf Bars
Stainless Steel Rocker Pannels
Putco Bed Rails
Clear Turn Signals
Flowmaster Exhaust
Lund Bug Guard
Painted Vent Shades
Painted Taillight Covers
Painted X-Cab Covers
Superchip (on order)
K&N Air Filter W/ Air Box Mod
Airaid FIPK (on order)
Red Stering Wheel Cover
Pionneer CD Deck
Wish List: F1 Ram Air Hood, Tinted Side Windows, Wiper Crawl, Viser, Supercharger, ETC...
Allan
------------------
1999 F150 Bright Red Extended Cab 4x4 Off Road, With Gray Interior, 5.4L, 3.73 Gears,
Add On's for now!
Access Tunnel Cover
Stainless Steel Nerf Bars
Stainless Steel Rocker Pannels
Putco Bed Rails
Clear Turn Signals
Flowmaster Exhaust
Lund Bug Guard
Painted Vent Shades
Painted Taillight Covers
Painted X-Cab Covers
Superchip (on order)
K&N Air Filter W/ Air Box Mod
Airaid FIPK (on order)
Red Stering Wheel Cover
Pionneer CD Deck
Wish List: F1 Ram Air Hood, Tinted Side Windows, Wiper Crawl, Viser, Supercharger, ETC...
Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
From: Durham, NC 27705
I buy the Purolator PureOne because it's the best looking filter!! It beats trying to put that chrome cover over the filter!!! And the filter is right on the front of my '82 F150 where everyone can see it.
Slik
Slik
Member
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, FL, USA
MWKellner,
I have done some checking, and although it is difficult to find direct comparisons between several companies for marketing reasons, I believe that the Valvoline brand of filters are no better than the other paper-type filters that are being discussed in this thread. If I were you, I would research another product line in this area.
As far as their oils are concerned. They only have two oils that I would even venture to recommend and only under certain restrictions. The Synpower synthetic that they produce seems to be a good synthetic, however it performs only marginally better than the non-synthetic Castrol Syntec. This oil is only going to be good under MSCI which are usually only 3-5K. However I have added this oil to the list of oils that tell people about.
The other, is their Durablend (synthetic blend) and this I would only use for no longer than 3K miles and not to work it too hard or under too much heat.
There are better oils, certainly, but for an oil change you can feel good about for not that much $$ without sacrificing too much protection, they fit right in there.\
Does this help??
Randy
I have done some checking, and although it is difficult to find direct comparisons between several companies for marketing reasons, I believe that the Valvoline brand of filters are no better than the other paper-type filters that are being discussed in this thread. If I were you, I would research another product line in this area.
As far as their oils are concerned. They only have two oils that I would even venture to recommend and only under certain restrictions. The Synpower synthetic that they produce seems to be a good synthetic, however it performs only marginally better than the non-synthetic Castrol Syntec. This oil is only going to be good under MSCI which are usually only 3-5K. However I have added this oil to the list of oils that tell people about.
The other, is their Durablend (synthetic blend) and this I would only use for no longer than 3K miles and not to work it too hard or under too much heat.
There are better oils, certainly, but for an oil change you can feel good about for not that much $$ without sacrificing too much protection, they fit right in there.\
Does this help??
Randy
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: correctional facility
The cult of Amway/Amsoil has spoken, ALL BOW!!! So what if Motorcraft oil is made by Pennzoil? It's API SJ rated, right? SJ is the latest (1997) manufacturer's warranty requirement for gasoline engines and it meets it. By the way, did the Moonies I mean Amway/Amsoil cultists tell you Motorcraft oil is made by Citgo. More misinformation from the gods and cult of Amsoil/Amway. What are your qualifications to judge oil filters? Is this something I missed in FFA at the county fair? Why do you Amway/Amsoil followers have such a hard on for Castrol? Does Castrol NOT meet warranty requirements? Yes or no will suffice. If you have BONA FIDE PROOF, AND NOT SOME HITHERTO NOT YET SEEN "BUT I'VE HEARD ABOUT IT" ARTICLE, share it. If not, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT.
Member
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, FL, USA
My my Kilroy, that was a rant wasn't it?? 
As I'm going to assume that your post was aimed at me, then I will be happy to respond. The only Amsoil dealer that I know of that services this site is msparks and if it was aimed at him than you do yourself a disservice. He is a quality individual who looks only to aid people in finding the best solution to their lubricaiton products needs.
Now, lets see if I can answer some of your quesions:
First let me share a clarification with you. I am not an Amsoil dealer, however I have years of experience with turbine aircraft engines and other aircraft items. This allows me some qualification about the specifications and the benefits behind what synthetic oil can give you. Not only that, but I have suggested many fluids for use, some of them you may actually like.
The only similarity between Amsoil and Amway (yes I was a distributor for some years and had to get out once the pyramidal scheming became evident to me) is they use a Multi-Level Marketing approach to selling their product. This is the most cost-effective way of getting any product to market, and it results in a highly-trained, highly-motivated work force that is genuinely interested in the customer and the product.
The crucial difference between Amsoil and Amway is that the Amsoil approach to MLM is they focus on the product throughout the business cycle, if you want to sign up as a dealer - fine, if not - fine. The product moves and if you don't want to profit by it, or aren't interested in the business end of it then they will service your needs anyway.
Amway on the other hand takes a slightly different, less legal approach. They focus ENTIRELY on the people aspect of it and the necessity of signing up dealers, the products are a sideline leading to the signup of dealers and the customer service end of it is completely ignored (not profitable enough). There rules even dictate that you MUST have 10 provable retail accounts to justify receiving a profit check.... Ahh the lust of money.
Now on to the technical part of it. As Stephen M. has stated there is plenty of technical information available to support the relationship between Motorcraft and Pennzoil (and Citgo apparently). The point trying to be made was that although FOMOCO makes a good point to always point the customer in the right direction, the mentality of "Only use what the dealer tells you to use" can get you into trouble. By using a non-synthetic oil in your car, you increase the risk of deposits and sludges that form and possibly the life of the engine. I lost my '88 F150 to junk oil and I would hate to see anyone else go through that.
The API ratings are becoming a clouded issue. Let me point to the October 1999 issue of Harts Lubricants World that outlined Mobil's claim before the Better Business Bureau that Castrol was misleading the public by claiming that the Syntec product was a 'Full Synthetic'. Mobil claimed that because Castrol changed their products makeup from a PAO based mixture to a complete mineral oil (which cut the cost of production by 70%) without telling the public they were misleading the public. If you want more specifics I can provide them. In the end the BBB ruled against Mobil, but required that Castrol remove all referenaces to 'Full synthetic' from any Syntec container.
The API ratings are a help, however you do yourself a disservice by relying solely on them. They are where the search for a product STARTS, not where it STOPS. Did you know that most oils on the shelf are not only out of viscosity grade (due to poor production standars), and are loaded with silicon, but wouldn't qualify for the rating that is printed on the side of the bottle?? Check out www.oilanalysis.com for more/similar information.
The SJ rating is done on a particular mixture that is licensed with the API. Although the API does maintain inspection services to determine if the manufacturer is producing the oil it says it is, they have no method in place to see if the oils 'stays' in the grade at which it was produced. See www.api.org for more information.
As far as qualifications go. I am not a professional mechanical engineer, nor do I work for a filter manufacturer. However I have had years of aviation experience which includes A&P ratings, ASEL rating, and hundreds of hours of cutting oil filters open
to check for contaimination and other issues.
I have also spent the past few years educating myself on the operation/qualification of oils/filters so that I can cut through the marketing junk (re: Castrol) down to the actual numbers that are important to me. When I find important information that will help others I am happy to share. I also appreciate feedback if I have mis-stated myself.
Castrol will indeed meet your warranty requirements, so will Wal-mart brand, so will used Mobil 1 for that matter. If you want the level of protection then go ahead and use it. Your engine may last quite a while, then again it may not. There simply are better choices out there. Why don't people who know trucks buy the T100, it'll get the job done won't it??? Yes, but not very well. Same with some oils/filters on the market.
I appreciate your requirement for bona-fide information Kilroy, I hope this post has helped you through your difficulty.
Randy
As I'm going to assume that your post was aimed at me, then I will be happy to respond. The only Amsoil dealer that I know of that services this site is msparks and if it was aimed at him than you do yourself a disservice. He is a quality individual who looks only to aid people in finding the best solution to their lubricaiton products needs.
Now, lets see if I can answer some of your quesions:
First let me share a clarification with you. I am not an Amsoil dealer, however I have years of experience with turbine aircraft engines and other aircraft items. This allows me some qualification about the specifications and the benefits behind what synthetic oil can give you. Not only that, but I have suggested many fluids for use, some of them you may actually like.
The only similarity between Amsoil and Amway (yes I was a distributor for some years and had to get out once the pyramidal scheming became evident to me) is they use a Multi-Level Marketing approach to selling their product. This is the most cost-effective way of getting any product to market, and it results in a highly-trained, highly-motivated work force that is genuinely interested in the customer and the product.
The crucial difference between Amsoil and Amway is that the Amsoil approach to MLM is they focus on the product throughout the business cycle, if you want to sign up as a dealer - fine, if not - fine. The product moves and if you don't want to profit by it, or aren't interested in the business end of it then they will service your needs anyway.
Amway on the other hand takes a slightly different, less legal approach. They focus ENTIRELY on the people aspect of it and the necessity of signing up dealers, the products are a sideline leading to the signup of dealers and the customer service end of it is completely ignored (not profitable enough). There rules even dictate that you MUST have 10 provable retail accounts to justify receiving a profit check.... Ahh the lust of money.
Now on to the technical part of it. As Stephen M. has stated there is plenty of technical information available to support the relationship between Motorcraft and Pennzoil (and Citgo apparently). The point trying to be made was that although FOMOCO makes a good point to always point the customer in the right direction, the mentality of "Only use what the dealer tells you to use" can get you into trouble. By using a non-synthetic oil in your car, you increase the risk of deposits and sludges that form and possibly the life of the engine. I lost my '88 F150 to junk oil and I would hate to see anyone else go through that.
The API ratings are becoming a clouded issue. Let me point to the October 1999 issue of Harts Lubricants World that outlined Mobil's claim before the Better Business Bureau that Castrol was misleading the public by claiming that the Syntec product was a 'Full Synthetic'. Mobil claimed that because Castrol changed their products makeup from a PAO based mixture to a complete mineral oil (which cut the cost of production by 70%) without telling the public they were misleading the public. If you want more specifics I can provide them. In the end the BBB ruled against Mobil, but required that Castrol remove all referenaces to 'Full synthetic' from any Syntec container.
The API ratings are a help, however you do yourself a disservice by relying solely on them. They are where the search for a product STARTS, not where it STOPS. Did you know that most oils on the shelf are not only out of viscosity grade (due to poor production standars), and are loaded with silicon, but wouldn't qualify for the rating that is printed on the side of the bottle?? Check out www.oilanalysis.com for more/similar information.
The SJ rating is done on a particular mixture that is licensed with the API. Although the API does maintain inspection services to determine if the manufacturer is producing the oil it says it is, they have no method in place to see if the oils 'stays' in the grade at which it was produced. See www.api.org for more information.
As far as qualifications go. I am not a professional mechanical engineer, nor do I work for a filter manufacturer. However I have had years of aviation experience which includes A&P ratings, ASEL rating, and hundreds of hours of cutting oil filters open
to check for contaimination and other issues.
I have also spent the past few years educating myself on the operation/qualification of oils/filters so that I can cut through the marketing junk (re: Castrol) down to the actual numbers that are important to me. When I find important information that will help others I am happy to share. I also appreciate feedback if I have mis-stated myself.
Castrol will indeed meet your warranty requirements, so will Wal-mart brand, so will used Mobil 1 for that matter. If you want the level of protection then go ahead and use it. Your engine may last quite a while, then again it may not. There simply are better choices out there. Why don't people who know trucks buy the T100, it'll get the job done won't it??? Yes, but not very well. Same with some oils/filters on the market.
I appreciate your requirement for bona-fide information Kilroy, I hope this post has helped you through your difficulty.
Randy
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: correctional facility
HAIL!!! THE GREAT GOD OF AMWAY/AMSOIL HAS SPOKEN!!! IT LOOKS LIKE A PYRAMID, IT ACTS LIKE A PYRAMID, IT SMELLS LIKE LIKE A PYRAMID, BUT IF WE SAY IT'S NOT A PYRAMID, IT'S NOT A PYRAMID. RIGHT?!! You have offered no proof or BONA FIDE information, aside from regurgitating Amway/Amsoil propaganda in the form of this mysterious Hart's Lubricant World "article." Based on the poor language, punctuation, spelling errors, and generally unprofessional tone of what is presented as an otherwise professional publication, I can only assume there is absolutely NO authenticity to this "article" or it is some covert Amway/Amsoil publication. As far as pushing Amway/Amsoil products through well trained and well informed individuals, I've also got to assume that is meant in the most liberal sense of the word. Neither you or your minion msparks is either well trained or well informed. In fact, msparks' sales technique has all of the finesse of a butter knife performing a circumcision. Amway/Amsoil makes a point of attacking Castrol products. Why? The "facts" you presented [propaganda] are false. Syntec most certainly carries the "fully synthetic" claim on its bottles. If your "claims" were in any way true, why did the Better Business Bureau rule unanimously in Castrol's favor? Why did ExxonMobil choose not to appeal the decision? Why did Exxon chemists and engineers choose to testify on behalf of Castrol? Why hasn't the Federal Trade Commision investigated Castrol? Or the Interstate Commerce Commission? Because Amway/Amsoil's claims are FALSE!!! Again, unless you have anything BONA FIDE to add, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF!! BONA FIDE does not include repeating some Amway/Amsoil propaganda, this includes the "article."
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: correctional facility
Could you pleases refrain from "dissing" Castrol, unless you have some actual proof? Other than Amway/Amsoil's propaganda, you seem to have a real hard on for Castrol. Could you please show some actual proof, aside from your standard regurgitated line? Go back and read the post before your whiny little plea and answer some of those questions. Don't change the subject, ANSWER the questions. I ain't afraid of the great IMPERIAL AMWAY/AMSOIL. Send the reservoir dogs after me if you like. Oh I know, Amway/Amsoil's tact is to change the subject, avoid all pointed questions, and somehow shift the blame to Castrol. Evil Castrol. Bad, bad Castrol. Amafruiteeo must've been canned by Castrol in the past, because he seems hell bent on trashing them. Answer the questions. I'm also a little curious as to why not all of Amway/Amsoil's products aren't API certified. Can't make the cut, huh? Looks like Castrol did.
Member
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, FL, USA
Kilroy, Kilroy, Kilroy....
It seems by your continued ranting that you may never be appeased. However, in the interest of providing you the information you request, here is another post.
http://tdiforums.abahn.bc.ca/NonCGI/...ML/000285.html
The above thread is an ad naseum discussion about the validity of the Castrol Syntec product as it applies to the VW TDI engine. In this thread is the actual article, broken down through many posts, for you to read. It will answer all the questions you have concerning this issue.
I am concerned for you Kilroy, your posts have a definite agressive behavior to them, they malign where no maligning is necessary, when provided with facts they ignore those facts, and you seem utterly ignorant of the information being provided.
Two examples: 1) Harts Lubricants World is a top-notch magazine from one of the leaders in the Lubricants industry, this is a trade magazine and widely respected. For you to dismiss them outright indicates that you have very little, if any, real knowledge on the issue at hand. 2) You continue to attack good people who's only interest is to provide quality information to those who want it. This belittles you and doesn't help anyone. Your continued point of comparing Amway and Amsoil shows that you have only the most basic knowledge of how these two companies operate. That too belittles you.
Again, if you need more information, or more clarification then please email me offline and I will do what I can to help.
Randy
It seems by your continued ranting that you may never be appeased. However, in the interest of providing you the information you request, here is another post.
http://tdiforums.abahn.bc.ca/NonCGI/...ML/000285.html
The above thread is an ad naseum discussion about the validity of the Castrol Syntec product as it applies to the VW TDI engine. In this thread is the actual article, broken down through many posts, for you to read. It will answer all the questions you have concerning this issue.
I am concerned for you Kilroy, your posts have a definite agressive behavior to them, they malign where no maligning is necessary, when provided with facts they ignore those facts, and you seem utterly ignorant of the information being provided.
Two examples: 1) Harts Lubricants World is a top-notch magazine from one of the leaders in the Lubricants industry, this is a trade magazine and widely respected. For you to dismiss them outright indicates that you have very little, if any, real knowledge on the issue at hand. 2) You continue to attack good people who's only interest is to provide quality information to those who want it. This belittles you and doesn't help anyone. Your continued point of comparing Amway and Amsoil shows that you have only the most basic knowledge of how these two companies operate. That too belittles you.
Again, if you need more information, or more clarification then please email me offline and I will do what I can to help.
Randy
