Dondo7, i know you can add all
these extras and make 300 hp , my
point is; being a truck owner and
just about everyone of us would or
could spend big $ for your trucks
total HP, but along comes the
engineers at Ford, knowing that
chevy is right on fords *** in
performance and what do they do,
make a "stock" 300 hp for a
Lincoln Nav, it is BS!!
But i guess i could look at this
another way, if i wanted more
stock HP, i could buy a lightin or
maybe even this new HD S/C IN
BLACK ONLY.....Ford needs a
reality check, it's a known fact
SUV production is starting to
drop,Jeep is cutting back 15% and
maybe 25% further into the yr, and
don't tell me Jeep Grand
Cherokee(sp) isn't a big seller.
Come to Raleigh and you can have
pi--ing contest with what you see
the most of Grand Cherokee or the
Lexus Suv.
That is all.....Dogcam
dogcam@myf150.com

 

I hear your frustration Dogcam, but decisions on what engine to put where are not up to "engineers at Ford". The engineers certainly have imput about what engine will work in a vehicle, but the real decision is made high up in the executive levels. There are a lot of politics involved too. The government gets involved in the form of CAFE (corporate average fuel economy). If it where not for CAFE, we would have many more engine choices than we do now. Personally, I think the market should decide if an engine is too inefficient. As it stands now, every engine/vehicle combination has to be tested for emissions compliance and fuel economy ratings. A very expensive process.

But Ford has made some boneheaded choices: why wasn't the 5.4 rated at 260HP from the beginning in 1997? Why was the 260HP version not offerred in the Superdutys last year (It may have something to do with the testing I referrence above)? Why wasn't the 240HP version of the 4.6 offered in the F150?

 

Don't get me wrong Dogcam, I hear ya all the way. Sometimes I wonder exactly who they are marketing these new F150's too. It seems to me they might be trying to pull the yuppy crowd into these trucks. But hey whatever blows their skirt up..I get too frustrated if I really start thinking about it.

[This message has been edited by Dondo7 (edited 08-16-1999).]

 

I would definitely be willing to fork over the extra green for a dohc 5.4. With 300hp, 360 ft-lbs of torque, and with much improved fuel efficiency from having an extra 16 valves, there's too many plus's to worry about the extra money.

 

The Navigator needs all the help it can get.

My F150 has a curb weight of 4028 lbs by 260 hp means each pony carries about 15.5 lbs.
The Navigator curb weight is 5660 lbs by 300 hp gives each pony 18.9 lbs.

Seems they need to squeeze 365hp out of 5.4 for the Navigator to equal the performance we currently enjoy in the trucks.

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99 Lariat R/C 2WD 120"WB 5.4 3.55LS Tow Dark Toreador/Gold Line-X
raoul_oba@hotmail.com

 

Dogcam,

You must realize that Ford must distance themselves from the Ford brands with a Lincoln. No one who owns a Navigator wants to hear they have a Ford F150 5.4 engine. Not good for sales. Lincolns HAVE to be different, just like the Mark VIIIs with the DOHC 4.6s

GM was doing this some years ago when Cadillacs got an Oldsmobile V-8 installed in them and Oldsmobiles got a Chevy V-6 in their smaller models. You should have heard the howls from the buyers and GM had to reimburse owners $$ for the substitution because everyone thought if the bought a Cadillac, it had a Cadillac V-8 in it.

Of course, this has been remedied now with the Caddy Northstar V-8 available only in the Caddys.

I wouldn't count on Ford trucks getting a 5.4 engine anything like the Navigators. Not good for Public Relations and it pisses of the Lincoln people too to be told they have a "truck" engine. Lincoln must be kept "elite" from Ford and Mercury.

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Dunbarton "The Middle Aged Kid" '99 XLT SC SB 4x2 4.6 auto 3.55 ls The occasional Z-71 Eater! Wedgewood & Denim, SuperChipped, Airaid FIPK. Man, I got it all!

 

Dunbarton, man i remember that mess GM had in 75, my Dad bought a Pontiac and when time come to change the oil , went to but on the filter and no go,couldn't figure out what the hay was going on.
Took the orginal filter up to Napa store and started going thru filters, guess what kind we found that fit? Oldsmobile, well at the time it didn't really bother my Dad, till i read an article to him from the paper,about the GM screw up, and then the feathers flew.
Filed a claim against GM and i believe he got back $600 or $700.00 from GM, he actually made out better than most, alot got Chevy motors in their Buick and etc.
The Olds engine he had was a 265 ci with a 4 barrel, put that in a Pontaic Tempest and she would rock&roll 21 MPH average.
Just had a flash back when you brought up that story, sorry for the long post..........Dogcam

Dogcam@myf150.com

 

I was watching tv this weekend and saw a addy on for the Lincoln Navigator and thought i saw in writing "now with 300 HP. i kinda put it aside and later that day (Golf tournament) or Sunday i saw the whole complete ad, and it diffently said 300HP, NOW why would a lincoln get that much of a gain in hp over trucks? i was told that the new F-150s still made 260 hp and Ford had no plans on raising it.
Anyone out there, hear different?? Also, how do you get 40 more HP out of a stock 5.4?
Man, only Ford would do this, they did the same with the 4.6 a few yrs back,just because they are Lincolns....
I could get quite mad over this, if anything needs more ponies, it's the Ford truck line.
I guess they have to stay up with the Lexus, gotta be a "yuppie"
Dogcam

dogcam@myf150.com

------------------

 

The 300HP engine has 4 valves per cylinder, similar to the 4.6 engine they used to put in the Lincoln Mark VIII. I'm with you on wanting the extra power, but they are putting the engine where the money is. The Navigator is more profitable (over $10k per vehicle) than the F Series or Expedition, thus the more profitable vehicle gets the best engine. They want to do everything possible to entice everyone they can into the more profitable Navigator. There is also probably limited production capability for the 300Hp motor. Production capablitly aside, what they could do is make the engine available and charg A LOT extra for it, like maybe $4600 like the diesel costs. How many of you would really pay that kind of money for the extra 40 HP?

 

Someone, in a previous post, mentioned that the Navagator's 5.4 engine has the 4 valve heads like the ones on the Mustang Cobra. I think there is also an option for a supercharger. So 300 hp is quite possible.

 

A cat back exhaust,superchip and a FIPK..you got a 300HP de-yuppyized navigator

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99 F150 5.4 4x4 ORP 3.73 styleside deep wedgewood blue ..no mods (yet)

 

It's all a matter of money and supply. The engine probably cost a lot of money to R&D, so they put it where they can get the most profit out of it. Why don't they just offer it as an option in our trucks at a premium? Probably because they can't build enough of them.

A lot of you may not know this, but in 1996/97, you had to wait a long time for a 5.4L engine because production was low and most of them were going into Expeditions.

If Ford had a good supply of the engines, there's no way they wouldn't offer it in the F series at a hefty premium.

 

I know this topic probably has been beat to death but I'll ask anyway. Despite the 4.6l and 5.4l being a sohc, and being slightly more efficient considering valve train loss with pushrod engines, why does the new chev trucks have better fuel economy? Is it sacrificed with having the longer stroke then the vortec 5.3. Even in the mustang, the 4.6l is slighly worse fuel economy than the comaro's pushrod 350. The future definitely calls for OHC's but there has to be more of an edge than just torque figures. I hope ford figures it out so the chevy boys don't have any ground to stand on when it comes to power train.

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'98 F-150 XLT Reg. Cab Flareside 4x4, Black, 5.4l, 3.55LS, tow package, K&N, GTS headlight covers, Alpine changer w/FM mod, Clifford alarm system / Future considerations: 285/75/r16 Mud Terrain BFG's, bed cover, tonneau cover, suspension lift.

 

To answer some of your questions:

Q: Why wasn't the 260 hp 5.4L offered in 1997?

A: There wasn't one! We devloped that engine on a crash program to get it out for 99 model year. Customers said we needed more power based on the 97/98 trucks.

Q: Why didn't the superduty get the more powerful engines?

A: The 99 superduty, lauched in the middle of 98 model year. They were too far along in their program to switch engines at the last minute. So, the superduty gets the new engines in 2000 model year.

Q: Why does the Navigator get the 300 hp DOHC 5.4L engine?

A: Somebody nailed this one, to make the Navigator something more than a Ford. It's called brand differentiaion.

It takes time to engineer the engines, get them approved by the government, then tool up the factory to build them. If something is on a 1999 truck, we were already working on it in 1997 and 1998. This all takes time to get out the door.

 

Thanks BBQMAN, that cheers us up.

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99 F150 5.4 4x4 ORP 3.73 styleside deep wedgewood blue ..no mods (yet)