3V Cam Swap
#1
07-13-2011, 10:29 PM
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3V Cam Swap
I' m not in a dire need to swap out my cam phasers as of now, but I do have a slight phaser noise and would like to prepare for a cam swap.
Since the 5.4's do have different needs to be addressed than the Mustangs do, I thought I would ask my questions here.
I've searched a bit about cam swaps on different forums, and this one, but not a ton of info.
I don't want to port my heads, just a cam swap. I have the ability to run a custom tune (Edge CS, will get PHP tune), LTH, hi-flow cats w/ true duals, 3.73 LSD (will change to 4.56 within the next year), will eventually get a different TC if/when my stock trans dies. I have 35's, won't ever go bigger than a 37.
Opinions:
What would the best cam be? I just want more power for towing and more pep, I don't race or anything. I don't mind at all changing out the OEM valve train components. I'm unsure if I need to partially or totally disable the cam phasers (probably depends on the cam profile).
I've always thought and have heard the FRPP Hot Rod cams aren't much of an improvment, and I'd be waisting money on them and disabling the phasers even after a tune. I'd be better off just installing new phasers on OEM cams.
Since the 5.4's do have different needs to be addressed than the Mustangs do, I thought I would ask my questions here.
I've searched a bit about cam swaps on different forums, and this one, but not a ton of info.
I don't want to port my heads, just a cam swap. I have the ability to run a custom tune (Edge CS, will get PHP tune), LTH, hi-flow cats w/ true duals, 3.73 LSD (will change to 4.56 within the next year), will eventually get a different TC if/when my stock trans dies. I have 35's, won't ever go bigger than a 37.
Opinions:
What would the best cam be? I just want more power for towing and more pep, I don't race or anything. I don't mind at all changing out the OEM valve train components. I'm unsure if I need to partially or totally disable the cam phasers (probably depends on the cam profile).
I've always thought and have heard the FRPP Hot Rod cams aren't much of an improvment, and I'd be waisting money on them and disabling the phasers even after a tune. I'd be better off just installing new phasers on OEM cams.
Last edited by swazo; 07-13-2011 at 10:34 PM.
#2
07-14-2011, 01:32 PM
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I got a partial, canned response from Livernois....
Thank you for your interest in our products!
Typically, for a N/A vehicle, I would recommend the limiters because the lockouts will cause a loss of power that may not be a big deal in a power adder car, but will be noticeable with a N/A car. The cam lockouts were built with the goal of preventing failure of the cam phaser. They do an excellent job of this and cure cam phaser issues, however they do limit the engines ability to retard the cam timing and as a result, cause a small loss in power at high RPM. In most cases we are talking 10-20HP depending on the application. That loss in power was worth it, given the gain from using aftermarket springs and cams was double that number. Not to mention, with power adders vehicles making 600+ RWHP, the loss of 10-20 HP was small for the gain in durability and ultimate assurance that the cam phaser would not fail causing possible engine failure.
If the phaser is already bad, installing the limiters won't fix the noise, so a full lockout may be your only choice.
Simple in design and requiring no special tools to install, the limiting lockouts allow for the phaser to retard the camshaft still but limit its travel to only 20 degrees maximum. In most cases max power can be found in the 8-14 degree range of retard, so by still allowing up to 20 degrees of camshaft retard, the ability to get maximum power from cam phasing is available. The limiter mechanically locks after 20 degrees and prevents any further movement. This allows for use of larger camshafts with more lift and duration and prevents piston to valve issues. The other benefit that goes with the limiter is that it prevents the noise and durability issue from becoming a factor. By reducing the volume of oil and limiting the total travel rotation of the phaser the issues with noise and failure of the phaser are eliminated.
You will have to have to custom tune the vehicle to disable the VCT.
The lockouts can be found here: http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/...-Lockouts.html
The limiters can be found here: http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/...miter-Kit.html
Typically, for a N/A vehicle, I would recommend the limiters because the lockouts will cause a loss of power that may not be a big deal in a power adder car, but will be noticeable with a N/A car. The cam lockouts were built with the goal of preventing failure of the cam phaser. They do an excellent job of this and cure cam phaser issues, however they do limit the engines ability to retard the cam timing and as a result, cause a small loss in power at high RPM. In most cases we are talking 10-20HP depending on the application. That loss in power was worth it, given the gain from using aftermarket springs and cams was double that number. Not to mention, with power adders vehicles making 600+ RWHP, the loss of 10-20 HP was small for the gain in durability and ultimate assurance that the cam phaser would not fail causing possible engine failure.
If the phaser is already bad, installing the limiters won't fix the noise, so a full lockout may be your only choice.
Simple in design and requiring no special tools to install, the limiting lockouts allow for the phaser to retard the camshaft still but limit its travel to only 20 degrees maximum. In most cases max power can be found in the 8-14 degree range of retard, so by still allowing up to 20 degrees of camshaft retard, the ability to get maximum power from cam phasing is available. The limiter mechanically locks after 20 degrees and prevents any further movement. This allows for use of larger camshafts with more lift and duration and prevents piston to valve issues. The other benefit that goes with the limiter is that it prevents the noise and durability issue from becoming a factor. By reducing the volume of oil and limiting the total travel rotation of the phaser the issues with noise and failure of the phaser are eliminated.
You will have to have to custom tune the vehicle to disable the VCT.
The lockouts can be found here: http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/...-Lockouts.html
The limiters can be found here: http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/...miter-Kit.html
#3
07-14-2011, 01:46 PM
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A buddy of mine is a tuner for a well known company. I have the 5.4L out of my truck for a new replacement. I was thinking, since I have it out, I might as well do some upgrades. So we had a discussion about cams and he's not all that enthused with the cams for this motor. He said that I would lose some low end torque and hp, but will gain it back on the upper end. He doesn't like them because you really need the power down low on these motors and not when your revving over 6k rpm. I changed my setup to go with an intake, and full exhaust - headers back, and a custom program.
#6
07-21-2011, 09:33 PM
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A buddy of mine is a tuner for a well known company. I have the 5.4L out of my truck for a new replacement. I was thinking, since I have it out, I might as well do some upgrades. So we had a discussion about cams and he's not all that enthused with the cams for this motor. He said that I would lose some low end torque and hp, but will gain it back on the upper end. He doesn't like them because you really need the power down low on these motors and not when your revving over 6k rpm. I changed my setup to go with an intake, and full exhaust - headers back, and a custom program.
I'm going to contact PHP for a good tow and performance tune this week.
#7
07-21-2011, 10:05 PM
I'm not sure that cams really buy you much in these trucks (other than they do sound pretty darn cool). I was in the same position. Thought while I was doing the phasers and all I might swap the cams with something better but doesn't look like you really get a lot out of them for a daily driver-type truck. You've already got cams that can do what, a 60 degree range of advance? Unless you've got some specific race or other off-road kind of application that you're camming it for, better programming's probably more practical for the buck and you avoid the downsides of more special purpose cams.
