Spark Plugs and nickel anti-seize

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Old Jan 31, 2008 | 10:02 PM
  #16  
04larry's Avatar
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The dealer did let me use a car while my truck is being worked on, Don't know where this is going to end up, but maybe Ford needs to be sued.
 
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Old Jan 31, 2008 | 10:09 PM
  #17  
army1's Avatar
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From: w.ky
i really hope the dealer helps
you out with this one, because
i don't think ford will, they have
know about this problem for yrs
and did nothing about it,maybe
if they had fixed this problem
in the beginning they wouldn't
have dropped to number 3 in sales.
good luck.
 
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Old Jan 31, 2008 | 10:31 PM
  #18  
lenore's Avatar
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Originally Posted by 04larry
Well, the dealer called. They broke 7 out of 8 plugs trying to get them out. They called Ford in Dearborn. Dearborn was supposed to send an engineer out today with a prototype tool to work on the situation. Ford obviously knows there is a problem. When I talked to the customer service folks at Ford, they were argumentive and basically took the position that since it was out of warranty it was my problem. I talked to some supervisors and raised hell at the dealership stating that the manufacturer's maintainence schedule calls for 1st replacement at 100,000. Since i've traded with the same dealer for over 30 years, I think he's going to try and help me, but I don't know how this will come out. I am really upset with FoMoCo's attitude that I experienced on the telephone. i just hope the Dearborn engineer finds a solution. This prototype tool must be different than the one the dealer has from Ford to use with the TSB. Oh, i found a video from Ford about how to change the plugs and it called for the engine to be slightly warm to the touch, but not hot before putting in the Kroil to soften the deposits. The dealer's tech made sure "the engine was stone overnight cold" before attempting to remove the plugs. Obviously there is a problem. I don't think I'll buy a Ford next time unless I get some serious help from them. I heard that Champion is supposed to come out with a new plug for these trucks this month that is all one piece of metal, not a two piece crimped system like the factory put in. If so, that may take care of the breakage because it will all be one piece of metal around the ceramic insulator.
Obviously they didnt read the TSB, the engine was supposed to be warm....Thank you ford for your fantastic design, then you wonder why the jobs go to the far east.
 
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Old Jan 31, 2008 | 10:32 PM
  #19  
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There needs to be a darn recall on these piece of crap three valve engines that you cant even change a spark plug on. And On Ford's dime.
 
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Old Jan 31, 2008 | 11:43 PM
  #20  
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Even if an aftermarket plug is designed, the problems exists that 4 years worth of 5.4 3v engines are going to need the old crappy plugs out before any type of new ones that might fix the problem can be put in. We shouldn't have to risk thousands of dollars should some break while attempting to put any new "fix" plugs in. Ford needs to find a way to get these dam- plugs out without costing us more than what a routine 100k mile tune-up(plug change) would cost. If it's 300 bucks it's 300 good or bust. What good is a one piece plug if we have to pay 2-3000 bucks to get them in our trucks. Dam-it Ford Motor Company, speak up will ya???? Throw us loyal customers a freaking bone here. 4 dang years and we haven't heard crap and the dealerships are playing stupid as well..... If I need a lawyer on this, I might need Johnny Cochran b/c I swear I'm going to go postal on FMC if this doesn't get fixed and I have the issues many are having.(Just kidding about the postal thing but you feel my pain here).
 
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Old Jan 31, 2008 | 11:51 PM
  #21  
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Probably wasted on this site, too many good ole boys that swear up and down on their fords whether it cost them a arm and leg or not. I am really surprised no one has started a class action suit. Everyone needs to file a comlaint with the NHTSB online. until their are thousands of complaints there will be no movement from Ford.....
 
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Old Feb 1, 2008 | 12:33 AM
  #22  
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Does anyone know the law firm that was involved with the Ford Firestone tire fiasco?? I'm sure they're up another one.

I totally agree that Ford will not do anything until people start going postal on them!! There was one case recently in WA state where an older couple brought their F-150 to a local garage to get their plugs changed. The garage broke 6 of the 8 plugs. They pulled the heads and ended up charging the couple $3500 without even calling ahead of time to let them know what happened. They escalated this to their local governor, which took it up with Ford. A local Ford dealer in Seattle ended up paying for a large part of the repairs out of good faith as the local news station was covering the story. Like they say, any publicity is bad publicity!!! The moral of the story is contact as many people as you can. Get your local news station in on it.
 
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Old Feb 1, 2008 | 12:45 AM
  #23  
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04Larry,

Ask them what part of the spark plug is stuck in the head. The TSB states that the Rotunda tool can be used if just the electrode shield is left. If they broke off the porcelean insulator, they're screwed. I've heard of a few guys who have chipped away enough of the porcelean so they can tap a few threads. I highly doubt they will send out an "engineer" from Detroit. The whole "experimental tool" sound like a load of BS. They are just trying to buy time.

If I were you, I'd ask them to stop work until they can give you some kind of estimate or work out some kind of agreement as to who will foot the bill. It may be cheaper for Fomoco to send out a whole new motor. If they broke 7 of 8 plugs, they will have to pull off the front of the motor, pulleys, timing cover/chain, and both heads. Just for fun, ask them how much a new 5.4 would be.
 
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Old Feb 1, 2008 | 01:29 AM
  #24  
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Are these plugs expensive or impossible to change on a regular basis? If not why not just change them every 30,000 and to *ell with what the recommended change interval is.
 
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Old Feb 1, 2008 | 03:16 AM
  #25  
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If they did not follow the TSB, you have a real good case for whatever the auto service equivalent of malpractice is.
 
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Old Feb 1, 2008 | 07:55 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by lenore
Obviously they didnt read the TSB, the engine was supposed to be warm....Thank you ford for your fantastic design, then you wonder why the jobs go to the far east.
No, according to the TSB (08-1-9), the engine is supposed to be cold.

FORD: 2004-2008 F-150
2005-2008 Expedition, F-Super Duty
LINCOLN: 2005-2008 Navigator
2006-2008 Mark LT


This article supersedes TSB 06-15-2 to update Vehicle Applications, Service Procedure and Part List.

ISSUE:
Some 2004-2008 F-150, 2006-2008 Mark LT, 2005-2008 F-Super Duty, Expedition, and Navigator vehicles built with a 5.4L 3-V engine and has a engine built date before 10/9/2007, may experience difficulty with spark plug removal. This may cause damage to the spark plug and leave part of the spark plug in the cylinder head.

ACTION:
Refer to the following Service Procedure for techniques to remove the spark plugs and extract broken spark plugs.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

The engine build date can be read on the left hand cam cover information sticker.

To remove spark plugs without damage, it is necessary to adhere exactly to this procedure before removal is attempted.

CAUTION: DO NOT REMOVE PLUGS WHEN THE ENGINE IS WARM OR HOT. THE ENGINE MUST BE AT ROOM TEMPERATURE WHEN PERFORMING SPARK PLUG SERVICE. REMOVING THE SPARK PLUGS FROM A WARM/HOT ENGINE INCREASES THE CHANCE THE THREADS COULD BE DAMAGED.



Spark Plug Removal Procedure

Remove the coil-on-plug assemblies and thoroughly blow out the spark plug wells and surrounding valve cover area with compressed air.
Back out the spark plugs no more than 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn. Using Motorcraft® Carburetor Tune-Up Cleaner, fill the spark plug well just above where the jamb nut hex sits (1/2 - 3/4 teaspoon). A minimum period of 15 minutes of soak time is required. The cleaner will wick down to the ground electrode shield and soften the carbon deposits in this time. DO NOT WORK the spark plug back and forth at this point.
NOTE: COMPLETELY REVIEW THE PRODUCT LABEL FOR THE MOTORCRAFT CARBURETOR TUNE-UP CLEANER PRODUCT - USE AT ROOM TEMPERATURE AND SHAKE WELL.



CAUTION: EXCESSIVE MOTORCRAFT® CARBURETOR TUNE-UP CLEANER, OR REPEATING THE PROCESS SEVERAL TIMES WITH TOO MUCH CLEANER FLUID, COULD INTRODUCE ENOUGH LIQUID VOLUME TO HYDRO-LOCK THE ENGINE.



CAUTION: DO NOT USE AIR OR POWER TOOLS FOR SPARK PLUG REMOVAL. SPARK PLUGS MUST ONLY BE REMOVED WITH HAND TOOLS.



Slowly turn the spark plug out. Some screeching and high effort may be noticed, but not in every case. The expected removal torque is about 33 lb-ft (45 N-m), but should decrease on the way out. If it is higher, try turning the spark plug back in a half turn, then back out again. If the turning torque still seems high, repeat the back and forth rotation along with introducing additional Motorcraft® Carburetor Tune-Up Cleaner to reduce turning effort.
Separated/Broken Spark Plug Removal

If the spark plug does come apart even after following the Spark Plug Removal Procedure, it will break in one of two modes:

Mode 1: The ground electrode shield is left behind as an empty shell. (Figure 1)


Figure 1 - Article 08-1-9


Mode 2: The porcelain center and ground electrode shield is left behind and only the upper jamb nut comes out, or the porcelain breaks with a section remaining in the ground electrode shield and only the upper jamb nut and a section of porcelain comes out. In this case additional soaking with Motorcraft® Carburetor Tune-Up Cleaner is required to dissolve carbon deposits. Long-reach nose pliers should be used to grasp and remove the porcelain center from the ground electrode shield. (Figure 2)


Figure 2 - Article 08-1-9


Once there is only an empty ground electrode shield left in the cylinder head, perform the following steps to remove the shield using Rotunda Special Service Tool 303-1203. (Figure 3)


Figure 3 - Article 08-1-9



NOTE: THIS TOOL IS ONLY DESIGNED TO WORK WITH AN EMPTY GROUND ELECTRODE SHIELD. IF THE SPARK PLUG CAME APART AS DESCRIBED IN MODE 2, THE PORCELAIN CENTER MUST BE REMOVED PRIOR TO FOLLOWING THESE STEPS. IF ATTEMPTS TO REMOVE THE PORCELAIN CENTER ARE UNSUCCESSFUL, CONTACT THE TECHNICAL SERVICE HOTLINE FOR ADDITIONAL REPAIR DIRECTION.
 
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Old Feb 1, 2008 | 07:56 AM
  #27  
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The combustion chamber must be protected from contamination during the extraction process by using a modified protective cap as a stopper-type plug. This is because the remaining ground electrode shield will be thread-tapped, so the cap is needed to prevent thread chips from falling into the cylinder bore. Cut a vacuum cap to a 3/8 inch (10 mm) length for each ground electrode shield that needs to be removed.
Install the modified cap with a long drill bit or suitable wire, sized for the internal diameter of the cap. The rubber cap should bottom-out on the electrode strap of the ground electrode shield once installed. (Figure 4)


Figure 4 - Article 08-1-9


Thread-tap the ground electrode shield using a 9.0 x 1.0 mm plug tap (tap profile is about 3-4 reduced diameter threads on the tip end).
Coat the end of the tap with general purpose grease. (Figure 5)


Figure 5 - Article 08-1-9


Turn the tap about 3 to 4 turns into the ground electrode shield once the tap begins to cut. As the shield is tapped, for every 1/2 turn, the tap should be backed up 1/8 turn to break chips and prevent any cut material from coiling-up and laying in the spark plug well. All of the thread chips will embed in the grease pack or drop inside the vacuum cap when following this procedure. A suitably sized tap wrench of about 7-9 inches in handle length will aid in reaching down the well. If not available, use an 8 point socket with a ratchet and drive extension. Keep the shank aligned with the axis of the spark plug bore cavity to prevent possible thread bore damage. Use care not to damage any spark plug threads on the way in.
CAUTION: DO NOT ATTEMPT TO REMOVE THE GROUND ELECTRODE SHIELD WITH THE TAP AND WRENCH. THE TAP MAY BREAK IF THIS IS ATTEMPTED.



Carefully back out the tap while maintaining the residual grease coat on the tap which contains some chips. Take care not to touch the sides of the spark plug well bore during removal.
Once the ground electrode shield is tapped, thread Rotunda Special Service Tool 303-1203 into the ground electrode shield to extract it from the spark plug well and encapsulate any remaining chips from falling into the combustion chamber.
NOTE: SEE FIGURE 6 FOR DETAILS OF THE TOOL AS INSTALLED IN THE HEAD.





Figure 6 - Article 08-1-9



Install the stepped end of the tool pilot bushing into the spark plug well ensuring it bottoms out.
Screw the center shank into the ground electrode shield. Do not over tighten the shank, to prevent thread stripping.
Install the nylon washer and jack nut until finger tight.
Turn the jack nut with a socket and 3/8 inch drive ratchet until the ground electrode is freed from the cavity and withdraw the tool assembly. Several turns of the nut are required. Upon removal, any remaining chips not caught earlier by the tap grease will be captured by the rubber plug sitting at the bottom of the ground electrode shield.
NOTE: ONCE THE SPARK PLUGS HAVE ALL BEEN REMOVED, NEW PLUGS SHOULD BE INSTALLED USING A FILM COATING OF MOTORCRAFT® HIGH TEMPERATURE NICKEL ANTI-SEIZE LUBRICANT ON THE GROUND ELECTRODE SHIELD OF THE NEW SPARK PLUGS. (FIGURE 7) DO NOT COAT THE ELECTRODE STRAP OR THE PLUG WILL MISFIRE. THE NEW SPARK PLUGS SHOULD BE INSTALLED WITH NO LUBRICANT ON THE THREADS AND TORQUED TO SPECIFICATION, 25 LB-FT (34 N-m).





Figure 7 - Article 08-1-9




PART NUMBER PART NAME
PM-3 Motorcraft® Carburetor Tune-Up Cleaner
XL-2 Motorcraft® High Temperature Nickel Anti-Seize Lubricant
382444-S Protective Cap


WARRANTY STATUS:
Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage And Emissions Warranty Coverage
IMPORTANT: Warranty coverage limits/policies are not altered by a TSB. Warranty coverage limits are determined by the identified causal part.

OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME
MT080109 Claim Labor As Actual Time Actual Time

DEALER CODING
BASIC PART NO. CONDITION CODE
12405 01
But you didn't hear that from me....
 
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Old Feb 1, 2008 | 08:15 AM
  #28  
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Here is a link to a streaming video on the problem with a Ford engineer explaining to techs how to remove the plugs and the first thing he tells them is to start with a warm engine. you can fast forward by clicking on the right arrow and holding it down.
mms://multimedia.ford.com/seopts/Tech26_250k.wmv

Sorry that one doesn't work. this one does. use episode 26 . www.flatratetech.com/index.php?categoryid=4

You need to click high bandwidth to run it. Use the arrows to fast forward or rewind. If you click on the line moving forward with your pointer you can rewind or go back faster.
 

Last edited by 04larry; Feb 1, 2008 at 08:50 AM.
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Old Feb 1, 2008 | 08:21 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by GIJoeCam
But you didn't hear that from me....
The TSB you posted is what the dealer's tech showed me. He did the procedure that way, but the video specifically says to have it warm.

Ford is going to lose a lot of customers over this if they don't do something about it. If they screw me, I will never buy another one and I have been buying Fords for 30 years and have bought 12 of them from the same dealer. If they screw me, not only will I not buy one, I will sue.
 
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Old Feb 1, 2008 | 08:50 AM
  #30  
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From: ft. laud., fla
Originally Posted by BlueOvalFitter
I'm a pipefitter by trade.We use an antisieze,that is made in Houston,TX, that can withstand temperatures up to 2k degrees!
If you are a DIY guy/gal: this is the product to use: Never-seez Pure Nickel Special by Bostik Chemical Group good to 2400F, $21.55 for 8oz. Neverseezproducts.com/purenickel.htm this product is ford spec approved. they also have a nuclear grade at $43.68 8oz 2400F.

My ride is a '05 fx4, so i'm involved and I intend to change the plugs at 45k or so. plugs are $16 to $18 so $21.55 is some cheap insurance.

I have pulled the pin, IBEW. two wires:hook up, three wires: fark up, four wires: pack up.
 
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